Options for Brigade Detachments

[Calistarius]

After a quick search I couldn’t find much on this topic. Excuse me if I missed it, please. After my experience with 8th edition thus far I’ve realized a brigade is my best option in order to maximize my CPs for feeding the DC and characters I use. The current models I own limit my choices for this though. I’m looking for your opinions on our current Fast Attack options. I’ll start by saying I’m leaning towards Inceptors more than anything, now that they are affordable. What are you guys using these days, and what are your thoughts?

[Are Verlo]

If you play with FW (why shouldn’t you?), then tarantulas with twin heavy bolters are decent. I also find asm with jp usefull, either 6 men and a power sword for the sgt or with 2 plasma guns.

[Xerxus]

Scout Bikers are likely the best choice for Fast Attack in a brigade, but I doubt that running a brigade is worth it. It hurts to have that many drops, you want that +1 for the rolloff.

[Kallas]

Assault Marines with Inferno Pistols make good, reasonably cheap anti-tank/monster supplementary units that maintain decent chaff clearing. Pistols over Meltaguns because then they keep their Chainswords, and are slightly cheaper.

 

Inceptors, both Bolter and Plasma, are pretty great. Upon Wings of Fire is great for repositioning and can be used with their initial drop position to potentially pull enemy units out of place, after they jump away again. They put out good firepower, and really help when you've got a good melee unit - they can only fire so many guns at your units!

 

As mentioned, Tarantulas are great. Cheap, pretty good firepower for their cost and their pretty low on the target priority list, which makes them great for deep strike denial.

[Kallas]

Scout Bikers are likely the best choice for Fast Attack in a brigade, but I doubt that running a brigade is worth it. It hurts to have that many drops, you want that +1 for the rolloff.

Oh yeah, Scout Bikers are pretty boss too.

 

I don't think a Brigade should be discounted. There are some advantages to going second (I mean, being alpha struck is bad of course, but it can be mitigated if terrain isn't crap!), particularly if the objectives are good.

 

One big advantage of having lots of deployments, especially versus someone with very few, is that you can delay deploying your better units (using deep strikers, and unimportant models like Tarantulas or a Scout Squad) so that you can see where they're putting their better units, and position accordingly

 

Personally, I've been leaning towards a Brigade too:

++ HQ

Captain (Artisan of War TH, Inferno Pistol, Angel's Wings Jump Pack)

Lieutenant (MC Bolter, Power Sword, Jump Pack)

Librarian (Force Sword, Inferno Pistol, Jump Pack)

 

++ Troops

4x 5-man Scouts (3*CC Scouts, 1*Bolter Scouts)

2x 5-man Tacticals (1 Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter/Power Sword Sergeant)

 

++ Fast Attack

3x 1 HB Tarantula

2x 3-man Inceptors (1*Bolters, 1*Plasma)

 

++ Elites

Sanguinary Novitiate (Jump Pack, Veritas Vitae)

Company Champion (Jump Pack)

6-man Vanguard (Jump Packs, Twin LC)

 

++ Heavy Support

3x Predator (Twin LC, Heavy Bolters)

 

It's 20 drops, so likely not getting the +1 to the Initiative roll, but with 8 deep strikers, that's a bunch of enemy units on the table already. Then there are still reasonably non-committal deployments to put down, depending on what your opponent is bringing - if they're armour heavy, delay the Predators; if they're infantry heavy... delay the Predators

Edited December 23, 2017 by Kallas

[Calistarius]

 

Scout Bikers are likely the best choice for Fast Attack in a brigade, but I doubt that running a brigade is worth it. It hurts to have that many drops, you want that +1 for the rolloff.

Oh yeah, Scout Bikers are pretty boss too.

I don't think a Brigade should be discounted. There are some advantages to going second (I mean, being alpha struck is bad of course, but it can be mitigated if terrain isn't crap!), particularly if the objectives are good.

One big advantage of having lots of deployments, especially versus someone with very few, is that you can delay deploying your better units (using deep strikers, and unimportant models like Tarantulas or a Scout Squad) so that you can see where they're putting their better units, and position accordingly

Personally, I've been leaning towards a Brigade too:

++ HQ

Captain (Artisan of War TH, Inferno Pistol, Angel's Wings Jump Pack)

Lieutenant (MC Bolter, Power Sword, Jump Pack)

Librarian (Force Sword, Inferno Pistol, Jump Pack)

++ Troops

4x 5-man Scouts (3*CC Scouts, 1*Bolter Scouts)

2x 5-man Tacticals (1 Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter/Power Sword Sergeant)

++ Fast Attack

3x 1 HB Tarantula

2x 3-man Inceptors (1*Bolters, 1*Plasma)

++ Elites

Sanguinary Novitiate (Jump Pack, Veritas Vitae)

Company Champion (Jump Pack)

6-man Vanguard (Jump Packs, Twin LC)

++ Heavy Support

3x Predator (Twin LC, Heavy Bolters)

It's 20 drops, so likely not getting the +1 to the Initiative roll, but with 8 deep strikers, that's a bunch of enemy units on the table already. Then there are still reasonably non-committal deployments to put down, depending on what your opponent is bringing - if they're armour heavy, delay the Predators; if they're infantry heavy... delay the Predators

I have no issue going second either. I think we have the capability to deploy defensively now and still get off an amazing first turn strike if we utilize strategems correctly. I’ve already found 10 CPs from 2x Battalions and 1 other detachment isn’t enough to last into turn 2. Also, I love jump packs of any sort, and we can still place a fair amount in reserves so that +1 isn’t automatically lost by taking a brigade.

 

I like the idea of Scout Bikes as well. I don’t actually own any because of their fairly recent surge in relevance. Would they need to be taken in droves to become effective? Would this lose their point efficiency? Judging by the fact that most 3rd party locations are sold out of the kits people seem to like them.

[Syrex]

 

 

Scout Bikers are likely the best choice for Fast Attack in a brigade, but I doubt that running a brigade is worth it. It hurts to have that many drops, you want that +1 for the rolloff.

Oh yeah, Scout Bikers are pretty boss too.

I don't think a Brigade should be discounted. There are some advantages to going second (I mean, being alpha struck is bad of course, but it can be mitigated if terrain isn't crap!), particularly if the objectives are good.

One big advantage of having lots of deployments, especially versus someone with very few, is that you can delay deploying your better units (using deep strikers, and unimportant models like Tarantulas or a Scout Squad) so that you can see where they're putting their better units, and position accordingly

Personally, I've been leaning towards a Brigade too:

++ HQ

Captain (Artisan of War TH, Inferno Pistol, Angel's Wings Jump Pack)

Lieutenant (MC Bolter, Power Sword, Jump Pack)

Librarian (Force Sword, Inferno Pistol, Jump Pack)

++ Troops

4x 5-man Scouts (3*CC Scouts, 1*Bolter Scouts)

2x 5-man Tacticals (1 Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter/Power Sword Sergeant)

++ Fast Attack

3x 1 HB Tarantula

2x 3-man Inceptors (1*Bolters, 1*Plasma)

++ Elites

Sanguinary Novitiate (Jump Pack, Veritas Vitae)

Company Champion (Jump Pack)

6-man Vanguard (Jump Packs, Twin LC)

++ Heavy Support

3x Predator (Twin LC, Heavy Bolters)

It's 20 drops, so likely not getting the +1 to the Initiative roll, but with 8 deep strikers, that's a bunch of enemy units on the table already. Then there are still reasonably non-committal deployments to put down, depending on what your opponent is bringing - if they're armour heavy, delay the Predators; if they're infantry heavy... delay the Predators

I have no issue going second either. I think we have the capability to deploy defensively now and still get off an amazing first turn strike if we utilize strategems correctly. I’ve already found 10 CPs from 2x Battalions and 1 other detachment isn’t enough to last into turn 2. Also, I love jump packs of any sort, and we can still place a fair amount in reserves so that +1 isn’t automatically lost by taking a brigade.

 

I like the idea of Scout Bikes as well. I don’t actually own any because of their fairly recent surge in relevance. Would they need to be taken in droves to become effective? Would this lose their point efficiency? Judging by the fact that most 3rd party locations are sold out of the kits people seem to like them.

 

Placing a unit in reserve still counts as a "drop" though, so that doesn't actually help in terms of the +1.

I generally use 2 3man scout biker units, and I've been really happy with them. A 3 man unit puts out 22 bolter equivalent shots at 12", and still has combat blades for CC. If we ever lose index options, we drop 4 shots from the SB on the Sarge, still a good unit.

[Calistarius]

Placing a unit in reserve still counts as a "drop" though, so that doesn't actually help in terms of the +1.

I generally use 2 3man scout biker units, and I've been really happy with them. A 3 man unit puts out 22 bolter equivalent shots at 12", and still has combat blades for CC. If we ever lose index options, we drop 4 shots from the SB on the Sarge, still a good unit.

You’re absolutely right. I should have caught that. I struggle multitasking at times. In my head I was thinking I like to use reserves when I deploy defensively. I don’t honestly know why I implied that would change my drops.

 

Do you mind if I ask what you typical face in your community? Are the T5 scouts hold up in combat or in the open?

[Diagramdude]

I know Tarantulas are the cheapest FA option, but has anyone considered a lone Attack Bike?

 

47 points with the heavy bolter, pretty sturdy platform and should stay low on the threat radar.

[Panzer]

Imo a Brigarde is not worth it in a 2k list for us. Our units are way too expensive and a brigarde would leave you with no or extremely little room to customize your list due all the tax.

However for fast attack I'd say go Scout Bikes or Landspeeder (with Heavy Flamer).

[Calistarius]

I know Tarantulas are the cheapest FA option, but has anyone considered a lone Attack Bike?

47 points with the heavy bolter, pretty sturdy platform and should stay low on the threat radar.

  

This is a really good suggestion. 4 wounds for 45 points and not being immobile is a nice thought.

 

Imo a Brigarde is not worth it in a 2k list for us. Our units are way too expensive and a brigarde would leave you with no or extremely little room to customize your list due all the tax.

However for fast attack I'd say go Scout Bikes or Landspeeder (with Heavy Flamer).

I just can’t get beyond needing more than 10 CP. I’m really hooked on these brilliant strategems we have, and find myself out of CP by turn 2.

I like the price point on Land Speeders these days too. I don’t trust the survivability of Scout Bikes yet, but that could be because I haven’t seen it in person. They’re creeping up on my potentials list.

[Diagramdude]

The more I consider it, the more I fancy a solo attack bike.

 

With a multi-melta it's 67 points and probably gets focused down turn 1, but the humble heavy bolters loadout is 47 points and may not attract the opponents firepower.

 

With a 14" move it can easily threaten a T1 charge on the deployment maps that are 18" apart at the narrowest. And it has the turboboost special rule so it moves 20" when advancing.

 

It doesn't have much offensive output but that's kind of the point; I think it will be great at bullying a backfield shooty unit or seizing a distant objective and putting out some potshots.

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

I have been toying around with Brigade lists at 2k for Tournaments here and have been filling my FA with Bolter Interceptors, they seem like excellent, fairly cheap mobile firepower to really whittle down any units prior to any Descent of Angels  or heavy hitters like Captain Smashypants or Libby Dreads. I've been toying with the following to try out:

 

Captain, Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer

Librarian Dreadnought, Wings/Quickening

Lieutenant, Jump Pack, Storm Bolter

 

5 Scouts, BP+CCW

5 Scouts, BP+CCW

5 Scouts, BP+CCW

5 Scouts, BP+CCW

5 Scouts, BP+CCW

5 Scouts, BP+CCW

 

2 Company Vets

10 Reivers, Heavy Bolt Pistols + CCW, Chutes

10 Vanguard, Jump Packs, 3 Thunder Hammers, 4 Power Swords, 3 Twin Chainswords

 

3 Interceptors

3 Interceptors

3 Interceptors

 

5 Devastators, 2 Lascannon, 2 Heavy Bolter, Cherub

5 Devastators, 2 Lascannon, 2 Heavy Bolter, Cherub

5 Devastators, 2 Lascannon, 2 Heavy Bolter, Cherub

 

Plenty of CP's to play with, some very heavy hitting units along with fairly good firepower/mobility and 30 scouts that can charge T1 if needed is nothing to be scoffed at these days.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Not very bloodily-angelic, though, is it?

[Panzer]

Not very bloodily-angelic, though, is it?

Maybe not the Reivers but everything else sure is. I see a bunch of Jump Pack units, Scouts and some ranged units like devastators are used with BA as well since after all they are still mostly a codex chapter.

Edited December 26, 2017 by sfPanzer

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

Not very bloodily-angelic, though, is it?

Honestly, I don't rate the Death Company in the new book, Berserker are honestly better and so are Vanguard IMO. They need buffs to work well and need Lemartes/Chaplain/Astaroth or for some reason they run away like little babies. Sanguinary Guard are far too expensive IMO and tend to die the very next turn.

 

There's still a fair whack of heavy hitting in that list and I think Reivers could be a stand out unit for us, 200pts for 20 wounds, 31 attacks, throw out some anti-overwatch and have decent pistols? Yes please.

[Karhedron]

Not very bloodily-angelic, though, is it?

This is why I am hesitant about a Brigade at 2000 points. It is not that you cannot make an effective army but by the time you have taken all the mandatory choices, there are few points left for our signature units.

[Arkhanist]

Given the mass induction into the scouts of the remaining Baalite population post Devastation and the codex expansion of the scout company as a result - plus the profusion of JPs and a libby dread - seems pretty fluffy to me. Not every battle group is going to have a contingent of named HQs, SG and mass armour attached!

 

I'd be tempted to swap a couple of scout squads to bolters for midfield CP defence, or perhaps some intercessors if points allowed, but seems solid.

[Calistarius]

 

Not very bloodily-angelic, though, is it?

Honestly, I don't rate the Death Company in the new book, Berserker are honestly better and so are Vanguard IMO. They need buffs to work well and need Lemartes/Chaplain/Astaroth or for some reason they run away like little babies. Sanguinary Guard are far too expensive IMO and tend to die the very next turn.

There's still a fair whack of heavy hitting in that list and I think Reivers could be a stand out unit for us, 200pts for 20 wounds, 31 attacks, throw out some anti-overwatch and have decent pistols? Yes please.

I understand this sentiment. However, the DC is my favorite unit, by far. They do need some help from a character and CPs, but they can be so much fun if they get those buffs. They may not be everyone’s be-all-end-all, but they’re an auto include for me with this new book.

 

 

Not very bloodily-angelic, though, is it?

This is why I am hesitant about a Brigade at 2000 points. It is not that you cannot make an effective army but by the time you have taken all the mandatory choices, there are few points left for our signature units.

Good point. I’ll keep reworking my 2x Battalions +1 Vanguard/Spearhead and see what I can come up with.

 

Edit: My mistake about the chainswords.

Edited December 26, 2017 by Calistarius

[brother_b]

Not very bloodily-angelic, though, is it?

That list is GW's future vision of BA, and probably all "special" chapters, including DA/SW.

 

Looks potent though.

[Calistarius]

 

Not very bloodily-angelic, though, is it?

 

That list is GW's future vision of BA, and probably all "special" chapters, including DA/SW.

 

Looks potent though.

Care to explain your meaning?

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

I understand this sentiment. However, the DC is my favorite unit, by far. They do need some help from a character and CPs, but they can be so much fun if they get those buffs. I’ve been considering going with 2 chainswords on mine for more attacks. That’d be 5 on the charge per model without any outside help. They may not be everyone’s be-all-end-all, but they’re an auto include for me with this new book.

  

 

Not very bloodily-angelic, though, is it?

This is why I am hesitant about a Brigade at 2000 points. It is not that you cannot make an effective army but by the time you have taken all the mandatory choices, there are few points left for our signature units.

Good point. I’ll keep reworking my 2x Battalions +1 Vanguard/Spearhead and see what I can come up with.

Unfortunately DC can't take twin chainswords, only the likes of Vanguard, which is why I rate them much higher, cheaper, put out more 4 attacks all the time rather than just 3 and 4 on the charge. Vanguard are also cheaper and benefit from the same buffs as Death Company bar Lemartes reroll but you shouldn't need that with 3d6 DoA.

[Are Verlo]

But with DC, Scouts and VVS/SG you can get them all stuck in turn 1. Even more if you use Mephiston in a pod for wings or just rush a regular liby dread or librarian with wings of sanguinus. That is one impressive turn 1

[brother_b]

 

 

Not very bloodily-angelic, though, is it?

That list is GW's future vision of BA, and probably all "special" chapters, including DA/SW.

 

Looks potent though.

Care to explain your meaning?

 

I mean that GW will eventually, as in future editions, phase out "legacy/old/mini" marines and replace everything with Primaris. Obviously it's not happening this edition.

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

But with DC, Scouts and VVS/SG you can get them all stuck in turn 1. Even more if you use Mephiston in a pod for wings or just rush a regular liby dread or librarian with wings of sanguinus. That is one impressive turn 1

I'd be using Forlorn Fury on my Captain so not really a use for DC but yes you could have them hitting too but they're really underwhelming compared to VV.