Captain Loadout

[Panzer]

I want the Hammer of Baal because I want to swing at 2+ reroll 1s, not 3+, reroll 1s. In the long run I think that'll bring more damage to the table in the long run instead of the damage 4 hammer as I'll be hitting more often. I didn't run math, though, maybe that should be done. I'd be interested.

Again, the question here is how much you value the relic Jump Pack, not how much you value the D4 Hammer. Imo no Overwatch and re-rolling charges is worth more than hitting on 2s instead of 3s so unless some other model is your warlord you are free to take the +1D Warlord trait for the hammer anyway (tho +1A or 5+++ re-rolling 1s is nice as well!).

[Paladin777]

I haven’t got to A critical mass of models to where I can play a game, but I intend to run two captains. The first of which is smashy-pants with The hammer of baal, The other one would be my warlord with a pair of light and clause with artisan of war (depending on my opponent) I think he would do a good job shredding to wound infantry, and reasonably well against toughness seven targets with the red thirst plus wound rerolls.

 

Obviously, if my opponent is playing something like imperial nights, smashy-pants Will be getting artisan of war instead…

Edited January 9, 2018 by Paladin777

[Panzer]

I haven’t got to A critical mass of models to where I can play a game, but I intend to run two captains. The first of which is smashy-pants with The hammer of baal, The other one would be my warlord with a pair of light and clause with artisan of war (depending on my opponent) I think he would do a good job shredding to wound infantry, and reasonably well against toughness seven targets with the red thirst plus wound rerolls.

 

Obviously, if my opponent is playing something like imperial nights, smashy-pants Will be getting artisan of war instead…

Keep in mind that you can't use Artisan of War on the relic hammer tho.

 

I'm also not convinced about Lightning Claws with Artisan of War. LC are an anti-infantry weapon and most infantry has only one wound anyway. Against Primaris or infantry with FnP (twice the chance to take the wound) or Tyranid Warriors it's definitely good tho. Just very very niche.

[Paladin777]

Those would be its intended targets. Like I said, it depends on my opponents makeup. With red thirst you could fairly reliably wound monstrous creatures with a rerollable 4+.

 

I find it entertaining that we can now make a better MURDERWINGS than raven guard and a smashier SMASH———— than iron hands...

Edited January 9, 2018 by Paladin777

[Kallas]

I want the Hammer of Baal because I want to swing at 2+ reroll 1s, not 3+, reroll 1s. In the long run I think that'll bring more damage to the table in the long run instead of the damage 4 hammer as I'll be hitting more often. I didn't run math, though, maybe that should be done. I'd be interested.

It sort of depends on the target which is better, but here's some rough maths:

 

Target: T7 (or less), Sv3+

(6+ after AP-3)

 

Artisan TH:

4*0.7656 (66% base + (66% of 16%; number of 1s)) = 3.06 hits

3.06*0.84 = 2.57 wounding hits

2.57*0.84 = 2.16 failed saves

2.16*4 = 8.64 damage caused

 

Hammer of Baal:

4*0.9744 (84% reroll misses) = 3.9 hits

3.9*0.84 = 3.23 wounding hits

3.23*0.84 = 2.71 failed saves

2.71*3 = 8.13 damage caused

 

Statistically the Artisan Thunder Hammer causes more damage against big, multi-wound things like vehicles and monsters.

 

 

 

When Invulnerable saves are introduced (can probably expect a 4++), same Target as above with a 4++ (eg, Hive Tyrants):

 

Artisan TH:

2.57*0.5 = 1.29 failed saves

1.29*4 = 5.16 damage caused

 

Hammer of Baal:

3.23*0.5 = 1.62 failed saves

1.62*3 = 4.86 damage caused

 

From that rough look, the Hammer of Baal is statistically worse vs big things (ie, 4+ wounds), though I expect that the HoB is likely better against units with 3 wounds (eg, Hive Guard, Bullgryn) where the extra damage of the Artisan TH is unnecessary. If FNP saves are involved (eg, Hive Guard with Catalyst) then the Artisan TH probably wins out, with the extra damage giving redundancy against the average FNP rolls.

 

I would estimate that the Artisan TH is probably the better all-rounder, with the HoB being better for heavy infantry smashing. The biggest advantages of the HoB are:

- it doesn't cost you your Warlord trait, so you could go tanky with Storm Shield, Gift Foresight and Death Visions

- it doesn't need to be your Warlord at all, meaning he's not going to give up Warlord points (assuming that is part of the mission).

[brother_b]

 

I want the Hammer of Baal because I want to swing at 2+ reroll 1s, not 3+, reroll 1s. In the long run I think that'll bring more damage to the table in the long run instead of the damage 4 hammer as I'll be hitting more often. I didn't run math, though, maybe that should be done. I'd be interested.

Again, the question here is how much you value the relic Jump Pack, not how much you value the D4 Hammer. Imo no Overwatch and re-rolling charges is worth more than hitting on 2s instead of 3s so unless some other model is your warlord you are free to take the +1D Warlord trait for the hammer anyway (tho +1A or 5+++ re-rolling 1s is nice as well!).

 

I planned on taking the jump pack AND the hammer of baal. That's an extra CP, if I recall.

 

 

I want the Hammer of Baal because I want to swing at 2+ reroll 1s, not 3+, reroll 1s. In the long run I think that'll bring more damage to the table in the long run instead of the damage 4 hammer as I'll be hitting more often. I didn't run math, though, maybe that should be done. I'd be interested.

It sort of depends on the target which is better, but here's some rough maths:

 

Target: T7 (or less), Sv3+

(6+ after AP-3)

 

Artisan TH:

4*0.7656 (66% base + (66% of 16%; number of 1s)) = 3.06 hits

3.06*0.84 = 2.57 wounding hits

2.57*0.84 = 2.16 failed saves

2.16*4 = 8.64 damage caused

 

Hammer of Baal:

4*0.9744 (84% reroll misses) = 3.9 hits

3.9*0.84 = 3.23 wounding hits

3.23*0.84 = 2.71 failed saves

2.71*3 = 8.13 damage caused

 

Statistically the Artisan Thunder Hammer causes more damage against big, multi-wound things like vehicles and monsters.

 

 

 

When Invulnerable saves are introduced (can probably expect a 4++), same Target as above with a 4++ (eg, Hive Tyrants):

 

Artisan TH:

2.57*0.5 = 1.29 failed saves

1.29*4 = 5.16 damage caused

 

Hammer of Baal:

3.23*0.5 = 1.62 failed saves

1.62*3 = 4.86 damage caused

 

From that rough look, the Hammer of Baal is statistically worse vs big things (ie, 4+ wounds), though I expect that the HoB is likely better against units with 3 wounds (eg, Hive Guard, Bullgryn) where the extra damage of the Artisan TH is unnecessary. If FNP saves are involved (eg, Hive Guard with Catalyst) then the Artisan TH probably wins out, with the extra damage giving redundancy against the average FNP rolls.

 

I would estimate that the Artisan TH is probably the better all-rounder, with the HoB being better for heavy infantry smashing. The biggest advantages of the HoB are:

- it doesn't cost you your Warlord trait, so you could go tanky with Storm Shield, Gift Foresight and Death Visions

- it doesn't need to be your Warlord at all, meaning he's not going to give up Warlord points (assuming that is part of the mission).

 

Excellent, you just saved me a CP my friend!

[Brother_Mike]

 

Completed my Capt, used the leftover body from a Seth conversion for a FT themed Capt. Smash. (additional bits from DC (hammer / head) VV (shoulders))

This is such a good idea. The books always mention Seth being huge, even for a space marine. This really does the fluff justice

[The Unseen]

Repeated for the hundredth time.

 

YOU CAN ONLY GIVE A CHARACTER 1 RELIC

REPEAT, 1 RELIC PER CHARACTER.

 

ahem.

So yeah.

You either get the wings, or the relic hammer.

Not both.

[brother_b]

Repeated for the hundredth time.

 

YOU CAN ONLY GIVE A CHARACTER 1 RELIC

REPEAT, 1 RELIC PER CHARACTER.

 

ahem.

So yeah.

You either get the wings, or the relic hammer.

Not both.

 

Repeated for the hundredth time.

 

YOU CAN ONLY GIVE A CHARACTER 1 RELIC

REPEAT, 1 RELIC PER CHARACTER.

 

ahem.

So yeah.

You either get the wings, or the relic hammer.

Not both.

Ahhhh... rules learned. Thanks.

[durdle-durdle]

My thinking is that if I’m giving a captain a hammer, i’m Using him to try and assassinate bigger targets such as monsters or vehicles. In that light, I think the artisan hammer would be a good take. Another thought is that if you take the Baal hammer you can take +1 attack as your trait too. With death co, +1 attack, and red rampage, that puts you at 7-9 attacks, right?

 

I suppose it’s also possible to use astorath to n gate the -1 from the artisan hammer, but then. We’re throwing too many eggs in one basket.

[Diagramdude]

I know captains come stock with 4++, but I really think the storm shield is worth it especially because you'll be doing the vast majority of your damage in close combat potentially against some very bad hombres.

 

So when you have to roll four or five saves and you can only afford to fail one otherwise you're toast, do you want to be praying for 3's or for 4's?

[Panzer]

I know captains come stock with 4++, but I really think the storm shield is worth it especially because you'll be doing the vast majority of your damage in close combat potentially against some very bad hombres.

 

So when you have to roll four or five saves and you can only afford to fail one otherwise you're toast, do you want to be praying for 3's or for 4's?

I'm actually hoping that my Captain is the one doing the beating where the opponent is praying for good invul rolls and not the other way around. :D

[Leonaides]

 

I haven’t got to A critical mass of models to where I can play a game, but I intend to run two captains. The first of which is smashy-pants with The hammer of baal, The other one would be my warlord with a pair of light and clause with artisan of war (depending on my opponent) I think he would do a good job shredding to wound infantry, and reasonably well against toughness seven targets with the red thirst plus wound rerolls.

 

Obviously, if my opponent is playing something like imperial nights, smashy-pants Will be getting artisan of war instead…

Keep in mind that you can't use Artisan of War on the relic hammer tho.

 

I'm also not convinced about Lightning Claws with Artisan of War. LC are an anti-infantry weapon and most infantry has only one wound anyway. Against Primaris or infantry with FnP (twice the chance to take the wound) or Tyranid Warriors it's definitely good tho. Just very very niche.

 

 

That being said - i had a game earlier this week where i multicharged 3 eldar warlocks who were skulking around together with a LC captain with artisan of war. engaged all 3 as they were so close (b2b with the central one but within 1" of the other 2). Allocated 2 attacks to each one, slaughtered all 3 in 1 go. Then got stepped on by a Wraithknight unfortunately but hey-ho...

[Kappel]

Can you spot the difference between these two pictures? 

 

http://www.runekappel.com/Filer/figurer/WK1.jpg

 

http://www.runekappel.com/Filer/figurer/WK2.jpg

 

Man - I gotta love Captain Smackhammer! Charged after Descent of Angels with The Angels Wing Relic. Gave the Wraithknight 20(!) wounds - it actually only had 16 left.

 

The Captain even survived the next round of shooting, partly because of luck, but also because of a really annoying Drop Pod, that meant a lot of my opponents shooting couldn't target him. 

 

Concerning loadout, I have chosen the inferno pistol. It's a gamble I feel. If he survives the 1st round, it is really nice to have the pistol. But the chances are slim. In this case he actually took 4 wounds of a Wave Serpent in the next round, with a close-up inferno blast, and then proceeded to charge some Dark Reapers.  

 

In the background you can see my Librarian Dreadnought also having fun. Charged out of a Lucius Drop Pod with quickening and smacked a Warlock on a jetbike. Good turn! 

[Panzer]

It just feels great that we can go "Well...I don't have any Knights or Primarchs or whatever, but.... *places Captain on the board and smiles* ". :P

[Karhedron]

Captain Smash (or whatever nickname floats your boat) is a great spoiler. For 114-129 points, he can wreck units many times his cost that conventional shooting may struggle to remove. If your opponent does not bring a big juicy target, he can still be run as a normal Captain, buffing nearby units, assaulting normal units etc and it still should not be hard to make his points back.

[Charlo]

It just feels great that we can go "Well...I don't have any Knights or Primarchs or whatever, but.... *places Captain on the board and smiles* ".

 

Aye, that's exactly it. We don't need huge, targettable monsters, we made monsters of our own.

[Panzer]

Plus he makes a great Chapter Master for my custom successor chapter. :P

[Bonzi]

It just feels great that we can go "Well...I don't have any Knights or Primarchs or whatever, but.... *places Captain on the board and smiles* ". :P

This part really messes with people. Captain Smash is becoming known in my gaming group. After watching a couple games a guy asked how much damage he could do. There was silence when I said that with enough CP he can wreck imperial knights in one round.

 

My current favorite build is:

 

Captain: Angels Wing, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield. Gift of Foresight and 1 CP for Death Visions.

 

He kills the first thing he charges, then the opponent has to dump huge amounts of shooting into him to kill him or he will do it again next turn. In one game he dropped in, kill Punisher Pask, then survived 3 mortars, 3 double tap plasma guns on overcharge, 12 quad tap lasrifles, one plasma pistol, and a really desperate charge from a powerfist company commander who got backhanded into next week after he failed to kill the captain.

[Paladin777]

I may have to make a captain smash with a storm shield in addition to my plasma pistol painted black just for the sheer trolling factor after hearing that!!

[Pendent]

 

It just feels great that we can go "Well...I don't have any Knights or Primarchs or whatever, but.... *places Captain on the board and smiles* ".

 

Aye, that's exactly it. We don't need huge, targettable monsters, we made monsters of our own.

 

That is such a good way of putting it.