Medjugorje Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Hi Brethren. I want to know if our Flagship is a battle barge (like in the old fluff) or now a ship of the glorianna class. In some listings (lexicanum; 40k-Wiki,...) there is told that the Eternal Crusader is the ship which was build for the Imperial Fists as flagship (one gloriana-class shipt for each legion), but because Rogal Dorn used the Phalanx, the Black Templars get the ship. (I would prefer to have this kind of ship). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 As far as I know it still is the same it has always been, a Battle Barge thats been modified throughout the millenia and now is the triple of a normal Battle Barge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 I remember a discussion where it was mentioned that a new novel named it as a Gloriana class. Could possibly be one of the Beast Arises novels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 It's referred to as a sister ship to the Vengeful Spirit in the Black Legion, which is a Gloriana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 Black Legion, by AD-B, mentions the Eternal Crusader to be a glorianna. Which makes sense because every legion had one but Dorn had his Phalanx, which wasn't a Glorianna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted December 27, 2017 Author Share Posted December 27, 2017 I think then - its new lore. And it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 (edited) Perhaps the best way to smooth the fluff is to say that it is in fact a Gloriana-class battleship by definition, but is 'classed' as a Battlebarge as Space Marine Chapters don't have battleships? This sort of complicated naming pattern has always been very popular in the Royal Navy. Take ships and ships for instance, a sloop in the navy was anything that wasn't a ship or a boat. So a brig, which is a largish type of sailing vessel didn't exist in the Navy as a class, so all brigs were classed as 'sloops'. Similarly, a post- Captain couldn't command a sloop, even if the vessel technically was one. Post- captains could only command ships, so therefore any vessel commanded by a captain, which wasn't technically a ship (strictly speaking three masts and square rigged) was classed as a 'post-ship'. So a brig, commanded by a post-Captain was called a ship. Confused? You should be. Edited December 27, 2017 by Brother Adelard Marshal_Roujakis 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 I can't speak to the novels, but the following is derived from the various articles that have been published over time. The original Index Astartes article for the Black Templars came out during 3rd edition and described the Eternal Crusader as a "battle barge." During that same period, however, the Battlefleet Gothic game published several articles about the Space Marines and their fleets. One of those is key here: A battle barge is not a class of vessel, but rather it is the name given to any vessel configured to fulfil the role of battle barge. Because of this, it is theoretically possible for any large capital ship to fulfill the role of battle barge, although the specially designed battle barge vessels are by far the most common example. However, some older chapters, particularly members of the first founding, maintain much more ancient vessels dating from a time when Space Marines and the Navy were more closely united than they now are, and so commonly employed reconfigured Navy vessels as battle barges. Such vessels are completely unique (indeed, some of them were later used as the basis for new ship classes) and as such are greatly venerated by the Space Marines.Such vessels generally fall under the rubric of a "venerable battle barge" in game play. In addition, Fanatic Magazine (GW's in house magazine for its range of Specialist games), Battlefleet Gothic Magazine (GW's in house magazine for BFG), or the Battlefleet Gothic mini-site within the Specialist Games site published Black Templars Fleet, an article with house rules for playing a Black Templars fleet in Battlefleet Gothic. Even though they are house rules, publication by Games Workshop gives the rules a tacit nod of approval from Games Workshop, though some level of skepticism is reasonable: ...although technically a Venerable Battle Barge the Eternal Crusader has its own fleet requirements in its rules...With the Gloriana class battle ship developed later [in the lore] as the apex battle ship of the Imperium during the time of the Great Crusade, it makes sense that the Eternal Crusader, a "[venerable] battle barge," would have been clarified as having its origins as one of those vessels. "Becoming" a Gloriana class battle ship doesn't change the fact that it's a [venerable] battle barge. A D-B 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 (edited) Meh, doesn't seem like something to work at explaining away. It's like a retcon that says Guilliman wears a size 27 power armor boot instead of a 26. The Eternal Crusader was a super huge killy ship of righteous death, now it's a super huge killy ship of righteous death with a fancier license plate. Edited December 27, 2017 by Firepower Kheotour 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wolfhart Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 Meh, doesn't seem like something to work at explaining away. It's like a retcon that says Guilliman wears a size 27 power armor boot instead of a 26. The Eternal Crusader was a super huge killy ship of righteous death, now it's a super huge killy ship of righteous death with a fancier license plate. While I'm pretty much in the same battlebarge boat, getting a proper battleship fits really well with the good old "We do what the Emperor told us, screw Guilliman's brother vs. daddy and i was late-issues" so i really like that more than getting what everyone else gets and pimping it up later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 As an additional information, a number of websites and videos do - although they provide no detailed sources for it - list the Eternal Crusader as the biggest ship in the imperial armada (short of course of Phalanx, but it's status as a ship is debatable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 Meh, doesn't seem like something to work at explaining away. It's like a retcon that says Guilliman wears a size 27 power armor boot instead of a 26. The Eternal Crusader was a super huge killy ship of righteous death, now it's a super huge killy ship of righteous death with a fancier license plate. While I'm pretty much in the same battlebarge boat, getting a proper battleship fits really well with the good old "We do what the Emperor told us, screw Guilliman's brother vs. daddy and i was late-issues" so i really like that more than getting what everyone else gets and pimping it up later... How? If every legion had a Gloriana-class then that makes the Eternal Crusader less unique. The Ultramarines and the Nemesis chapter (Ultramarines successor) are the only other chapters confirmed to have a Gloriana-class ships post Horus Heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 Perhaps it's a pimped up one? Imperial battleships are hardly known for their uniformity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 (edited) Its a retcon? Ask ADB. hes still alive ;) Edited December 27, 2017 by Sete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawklynn Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 Its a retcon? Ask ADB. hes still alive If you can really call it "Alive." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wolfhart Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 (edited) Meh, doesn't seem like something to work at explaining away. It's like a retcon that says Guilliman wears a size 27 power armor boot instead of a 26. The Eternal Crusader was a super huge killy ship of righteous death, now it's a super huge killy ship of righteous death with a fancier license plate. While I'm pretty much in the same battlebarge boat, getting a proper battleship fits really well with the good old "We do what the Emperor told us, screw Guilliman's brother vs. daddy and i was late-issues" so i really like that more than getting what everyone else gets and pimping it up later... How? If every legion had a Gloriana-class then that makes the Eternal Crusader less unique. The Ultramarines and the Nemesis chapter (Ultramarines successor) are the only other chapters confirmed to have a Gloriana-class ships post Horus Heresy. Funny how that one legion must have had two Glorianas if they can gift one to their successor and still keep one I never read of other chapters (not saying much, i don't read that much BL) having a real BB, so I assumed they would have lost theirs along the way, making it unique for Templars. Then again your train of thought makes perfect sense and i might have jumped the gun on that conclusion. Edited December 27, 2017 by Marshal Wolfhart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogun Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 The Glorianas have provoked quite a bit of debate. From what I have gathered from recent comments Laurie Goulding and AD-B have made, Gloriana is not a class of vessel. Rather it is a designator/ honourific for a variety of particularly impressive macro sized warships. The legions could also possess more than one Gloriana. The Twenty Glorianas made for the Primarchs are just that, they were command ships made specifically for them (except for the Red Tear according to Fear to Tread, which pre-dated the Great Crusade's departure), but are not the sum total to exist. That is why the vessels are all so different. Iron Blood was built to Perturabo's personal design, whereas Vengeful Spirit was apparently the 'largest vessel built to the Scylla-schemata' ever. Both are Glorianas. I believe the one possessed by the Nemesis Chapter was actually originally captured from the Word Bearers (in one of the Black Books I think). Eternal Crusader is just a very large and very honoured Battle Barge which falls into the Gloriana category. I think until Macragge's Honour was suddenly revealed to have been sitting as museum or something somewhere in Ultramar in Rise of the Primarch (guess the UMs thought it too big and holy to be worth manning), Eternal Crusader and the Nemesis vessel were the only loyalist versions we are aware of existing. Plaguecaster and Marshal Wolfhart 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 Meh, doesn't seem like something to work at explaining away. It's like a retcon that says Guilliman wears a size 27 power armor boot instead of a 26. The Eternal Crusader was a super huge killy ship of righteous death, now it's a super huge killy ship of righteous death with a fancier license plate. While I'm pretty much in the same battlebarge boat, getting a proper battleship fits really well with the good old "We do what the Emperor told us, screw Guilliman's brother vs. daddy and i was late-issues" so i really like that more than getting what everyone else gets and pimping it up later... How? If every legion had a Gloriana-class then that makes the Eternal Crusader less unique. The Ultramarines and the Nemesis chapter (Ultramarines successor) are the only other chapters confirmed to have a Gloriana-class ships post Horus Heresy. It wouldn’t make the EC less unique in the context of space marine chapters though. Since only the Ultramarines and their successors have the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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