Sons of the Hydra

[Kelborn]

Alpharius is no More.

This was confirmed by the author. End of discussion.

 

Furthermore, I recommend reading The Last Son of Prospero in order to get an impression of who Janus seems to be.

 

Let me tell you, the Omegon/Janus theory is not accurate anymore.

[TheAlephNull]

Omegon is Juan Pujol Garcia and the galactic core is Venezuela. Calling it now. 

 

[DarkChaplain]

Let me tell you, the Omegon/Janus theory is not accurate anymore.

 

It never has been. Fan-wishlisting is all fun and good, but that theory was so far out there...

[Kelborn]

Well, it was accurate for some at least. Call it fan-wishlisting. ;) Same with all the upcoming fan theories on youtube about a certain character in Episode VIII. Or the Sevatar going Grey Knights stuff, imho.

 

Glad you're back. I was wondering about your absence. ^^

[Moonreaper666]

So what are everyone's thoughts about the AL Primarchs in HH and 40k?

 

I haven't read the book but have just finished watching CMV's theory video above and the conversation between Occam and his "Lord Primarch" are interested, but I don't think it means that much. It could be that one of the Primarchs are still alive, and that has been a theory for a while, but the Alpha Legion are well known for having other marines pose as or stand-in for the Primarch many times. Considering that the AL seem to have fractured into warbands, it would make sense for any AL marine that wanted to attract followers to pose as Alpharius.

 

I didn't really like the ending of Praetorian of Dorn so much,

Alpharius being killed by Dorn was way too heavy-handed for the Alpha Legion. I'm still not sure what was meant to have happened, surely Alpharius knew he couldn't defeat Dorn? Did he mean to have an escape plan? And why would Dorn not take him into custody? Alpharius would be sure to know a lot about the Traitor's plans and Vulkan Lives showed that Primarchs can be broken using torture (I know that Vulkan died multiple times, but still).

 

The final scene with Omegon feeling alone and the author confirming that Alpharius was dead kinda ruined it for me. The book ending with Alpharius being killed, without any comment from the author and without the Omegon scene would have left room for reasonable doubt about whether it was Alpharius or not, which is the whole Alpha Legion theme!

 

I'm a big fan of Guilliman's return to 40k and I'm looking forward to more Primarchs coming back. Hopefully one or both of the Alpha twins are still around to make a triumphant return. Not only that, but with Guillman back we have a 1st hand source of what happened at Eskrador.

 

 

Slight off-topic, but has it been mentioned anywhere what was up with Omegon's secret grey power armour?

Correction, Alpharius would have defeated Dorn...

 

...had one of his Imperial Fists not stopped the fatal blow like a true badass bodyguard

[DarkChaplain]

Well, it was accurate for some at least. Call it fan-wishlisting. Same with all the upcoming fan theories on youtube about a certain character in Episode VIII. Or the Sevatar going Grey Knights stuff, imho.

 

Glad you're back. I was wondering about your absence. ^^

 

Emperor damn it, don't rub salt in the wound. I already deleted all those unread Star Wars ebooks off the Kindle after Episode VIII...

Been moving back into my apartment after a long stay in a temp one while the building got modernized. Slowly getting a hang of unpacking and finding new furniture, so stress levels are going down down down to goblin town!

 

I could still see Sevatar becoming a Grey Knight, at this point. His plotline isn't wrapped up yet and Malcador has done crazier stuff. The trouble I see with it is that last I checked, he was in Dark Angel custody, and they're going to be late to the Siege, after Titan has been hidden by Malcador. He has to get to Sol earlier than that somehow to be a founding brother.

[Kelborn]

Huh...well then, seems like you didn't enjoyed it, making you the second one I've met who reacts in such a way.

But that's off topic of the entire forum. I'm open to speak about this via pm if someone wants to, though. ;)

 

Regarding Sev, yes, it could SOMEHOW be possible but I remember A D-B saying that he and Alan got not quite plans but they had a schedule for his fate.

Well, hopefully we will see it someday. But that's not related to Sons of the Hydra. :)

[Xisor]

I finished it last night. Loved it.

 

I can sort of agree that, in places, it felt a bit... thin. I couldn't quite sat why. I know there were bits that didn't quite work how I felt they were *intended* to, but then I might have been misjudging the intent too.

 

But, broadly, what a hell of a novel. The various conceits involved were delicious. The culmination(s) were arrived at on a very bonkers way. The rimward edge of the Maelstrom Zone and the Crozier worlds feel mow like somewhere I've known intimately - like the Scarus sector, or Calixis, or Ultramar - except here we only got slight glimpses but it felt 3d, alive.

 

I really enjoyed it. There was a huge degree to enjoy on it.

 

Re: "fixer" novels, I feel like this (and Cult of the Warmason), both were products of the 'Dark Time'. I could be wrong, but it felt like somewhere someone was saying "less ideas, more action!", or someone was actively getting rid of (or as authors: avoiding) some of the more navel-gazey dialogue that others go for.

 

Nevertheless, I thought it was terrific. Mysterious, and a strange "whodunnit" in as much as there's a big question: 'did anyone do it?' hanging over much of it.

 

----

 

Right off the back of it, I started reading "The Crimson King" and almost immediately I wished "Sons of the Hydra" was a good ten times longer.

 

I could read Rob Sanders' prose at his worst for years. To whit, I had a wry chuckle at 'Bas-Illica'. But there was a lot of lovely wordplay in there too - and I'd take that sort of risk every time over more functional text.

 

('Lancet' stuck out as a re-used for me, as a word, but then I use the same words/phrases a ton, so I'd be generous/brutal and blame the editors on that one! :P)

 

---

 

My £10 bet: I think the book was pitched/workshopped/commissioned during the dark time, buy only edited/revised in the period that new editors were brought on board. There's a lot in here I'd have previously thought might have been cut/altered (The Assassin's stroll through the ship), and a lot more that had depth to it that was really unexpectedly fresh (the last third of the novel), so I'd perhaps even go out on a limb and say this was a "fairly long short" that was belatedly filled out into a novel.

 

And that's the crux of it - it's the last third that is the real modern treat. The first two thirds is all well and good for my tastes, but towards the end really kicks bottom alongside some other stuff is read recently (Talon of Horus & Clonelord, especially).

[cheywood]

Finally finished this. I was surprisingly disappointed by it as someone who usually enjoys Sanders' work. He's never been a must read author for me, but I like his vision of the universe well enough. It's off-kilter and somewhat absurd with just a touch of reality to bring it to life. I didn't really see that on display here.

 

Others have stated it more eloquently, but I felt like I was reading a video game throughout the novel. It's filled with cool scenarios, lots of combat, and a lot of eye-candy imagery. Sanders definitely knows how to imagine unique worlds and violent battles. But the book's commensurately lacking in character development, philosophical depth, and emotional resonance. Characters go places (a lot of places) and do a lot of cool things, but it all feels rather bloodless. The plot develops, but not much else. Even Occam feels simplistic in his motivations for a main character, and Perdita feels more like a convenient POV than a character in her own right. Sanders also makes the AL seem far more capable than anyone else without ever justifying it, but he's far from the only author to do that to be fair. It's a shame, as the first couple chapters play out quite interestingly. I think if the Redacted and their operatives had gotten some room to breathe after that first act and develop as unique individuals the whole book would've been a lot better.

 

Kinda shocked to say it, but I'd recommend Shroud of Night as a more enjoyable AL story. Albeit of a smaller scope and slightly more generic prose to my eyes.

 

Is there a consensus on when this book was set? There were a few references to rift-space, but overall it seemed vague.

 

Edit: my description of Shroud of Night was unintentionally harsh

[b1soul]

Ever since Long Games at Carcharias, I couldn't stand Sander's AL.

 

Abnett's AL were intriguing. Sander's embody the silly meme...in my humble opinion of course.

[ProsperoStands]

Not going to lie, I really feel that the Alpha Legion has not been handled well.

 

Alpharius just getting murdered by Dorn was pretty lame IMO, and this books ending was just lame.

[Lucerne]

Ever since Long Games at Carcharias, I couldn't stand Sander's AL.

 

Abnett's AL were intriguing. Sander's embody the silly meme...in my humble opinion of course.

So in other words, you want navel gazing Abnett characters at their most generic rather than AL actually in keeping with the real lore for them?

 

Well, you're entitled to be wrong, but Sanders actually shows how the real AL works in 40k rather than "tee hee we're Alpharius TWINSSSSSSSS"

[Mellow]

I liked Apharius getting killed by Dorn. It gave Dorn some much needed mojo for someone who just sits behind walls.

 

Plus it also got round the constant “I am alpharius” thing where you never truly know where he is. Clearly the way he fought against Dorn was noticed and Dorn was certain it was him despite all attempts to hide in plain sight. It was also proven by the psychic backlash felt by Omegon so it felt like it was genuine.

[Xisor]

For Alpha Legion afficionados, you're not big on spoiler tags.

 

----

 

I still think the book was cracking. The only complaints with much substance (beyond mere like/dislike, which is super-substantial [perhaps even most substantial], but not easily discussed or debated) that I see on reflection are:

 

1- characters not super-detailed

2- heavy on action, light on reflection.

 

(For what it's worth, I like navel-gazing, nothing-happening stories.)

 

Nevertheless, that finale is *perfect* 40k.

 

Maybe not perfect post-The Gathering Storm, but if it were set anywhere pre-M42 then it is glorious. (If post-M42, then both glorious and with a hell of a degree of "be careful what you wish for".)

[b1soul]

@ Ugolino

Please elaborate how the characters in Legion are generic navel-gazers

[GAZ_AV_NZ]

I personally don't think alot of 40k books correctly relate to 30k and past histories

BL authors have quite a free reign to write 40k stuff

Heresy novels had a more set plot line - and facts with prior and consistent Alan Bligh input FW lore

I'd like to see more hidden stories / themes flowing through the 40-41st millennium era

Alpha Legion should be part of that

HH was a space opera story of Brothers in conflict with one another

With a Father who was lying to them

41st millennium I'm expecting some sort of story to emerge with Gulliman and his brothers returning

Alphas never went to eye of terror so Omegon should be around

Somewhere lol

[bluntblade]

There are Alpha Legion in the Eye as of Talon of Horus. Wouldn't be surprised a warband has taken the black by the time Black Crusade wings around.

[Felix Antipodes]

Just finished this and not really feeling sure what to think of it.  I was impressed with the overall story but left feeling unsatisfied for some reason.

What I liked:

The overall storytelling was good, if a bit stilted in parts.  Too many ‘demigods’ indeed (as someone else mentioned) and a few other bits I thought a good editor would have sorted out.

The universe building was also top notch, with the Crozier Cradle well defined without going overboard on the detail.  That same for the Word Bearers setup within the Maelstrom.  I also didn’t mind Sanders’ depiction of the Alpha Legion and its methodology, although I can see where some might not.  I also like the twist that none of the Redacted were actually Alpha Legion geneseed.  A nice twist.  I also liked the choice of the big bad in the final part of the story.  Not where I thought it was going.  Sanders is obviously wanting to do more with Lord Occam since he was the only survivor but was the only one whose former Chapter wasn’t revealed.

What I didn’t:

The Redacted warband were ultimately just cyphers, there to fill a role and then expendable.  Sanders came close to establishing personalities for some of the cast but never quite enough for most of them.  Never been much of a fan of ‘Dirty Dozen’ type storylines.  Would have like it better if they at least were given some sort of motivation for joining the group.  Outside of Phex it was never explained just why or how they ended up where they were or why they left their own Chapters.

In the end, it was the little things that jerked me out of the storyline that irked me the most:

The Marines Mordant Captain being held at gunpoint by a mortal.  Any Astartes would have disarmed them in a heartbeat.  Opening their Fortress-Monastery doors also didn’t strike me as tactically realistic.

The Grey Knights were also beaten too easily IMHO.  Yeah, they were fighting a daemon prince, but these guys are tough and there were a lot of them.

The dodgy time-lining of the setting – it is strongly hinted that the story was set concurrent or very soon after the Badab War and the fall of Huron Blackheart.  Yet the Red Corsairs are already up and running and well known by all protagonists in the story.  It also didn’t strike me as right that the Angels Eradicant – one of the Astartes Praeses Chapters that guard the Cadian Gate – would be sending reinforcements to help the rimward Maelstrom guardians.

I also wasn’t happy with the destruction of three full Chapters, even if they were Rob’s own creations from previous writing, but that’s just a personal quibble.

[nagashnee]

As others have said, a solid if not noteworthy read, the main cast felt a bit too OP, and the Imperium at time pretty stupid ( yes even for the Imperium). But it had some great ideas and painted some great visuals.

[slitth]

Just finish the book and what a waste of time.

 

Let start with the few good things about the book.

The setup was really good, how the Alpha Legion are different, yet united.

The character interaction are also what I would expect from a Alpha Legion character.

 

That was the good things, now onto the bad.

While the setup was good, every thing that follows was bad.

It was like someone made a real effort in build up the world, and then had a real bad role-play session.

The characters skills and equipment was over the top. Drowning out the personality of the characters.

Now while the character interaction was good, there was only enough to last a short story.

 

Then there was the enemies, they had two settings, extremely underpowered or ridiculous overpowered.

The had one chapter where they actually seem to have a plan and where following it.

The rest was roll20 and consult the plot resolution chart.

 

To sum up, the book is bad.

The setup is interesting, but not enough to justify the effort it take to open up the cover.

An Alpha Legion book should either be a mystery book, a war story with the focus on tactics or something in between.

They only thing that could have surprised me if there suddenly was a butler that did it.

[Hit0k1ri]

As one of my comrades said: "Is this the book with the Warpsmith, Chaos Sorcerer and the Heretic Astartes on the cover, which believe that they work for the Emperor? Well, that was an excellent book!"

[SchultzChaos]

If it is put in spoiler tags I wouldn't mind getting spoilers on this book. My readlist won't give me much space for Sanders' novel (though I kinda liked Serpent Beneath). So... What's the story? What's the great twists and stuff?  

[slitth]

Ok I will give away most of the book, so if you do want the plot revealed
 
DO NOT CLICK ON THE SPOILERS

 

This is a short and simplified version of the book.

 

setup

A small war-band of 6 astartes name "The Redacted" and their cult are working together with a larger group of Alpha Legion Called the Sons of the Hydra.

The Sons of the Hydra are lead by Anglebane and are slowly killing of loyal space marine chapters that operate around the Maelstrom.

Its doing one of purges that the story starts.

 

Act 1

The Redacted are charge with disabling a battle barge, while Anglebane leads an attack on a fortress monastery.

They do this by using perfect plasma weapons, armour that can change colour and a sorcerer that use a super jedi mind trick.

They also have a cult that serve as loyal cannon fodder and a brainwashed Callidus Temple Assassin.

They succeed with little effort and have prevented the battle barge from destroying the fortress monastery and Anglebane & co with it.

 

Then a Necron show up, warns The Redacted that they are gonna be betray by Anglebane, the The Redacted reacts by blowing up the fortress monastery.

 

Act 2

After saving The Redacted, the Necron gives them a mission from Lord Dominatus to get a cube.

The try to find the cube in the imperium, but it has already been stolen by the Word Bearers.

They then trick on the imperium to prepare a crusade against the Word Bearers.

While the imperium prepares The Redacted, frees a Word Bearers from the inquisition and persuades him to take them to their base of operation.

The Redacted get to the Word Bearers world, steals the cube and are now trapped on the world.

 

But by using the imperial crusade as bait the Word Bearers allow them to leave, as long at they guild them to the imperium staging point.

And the Word Bearers do not know the cube is stolen from them.

 

Act 3

The Redacted arrive at the staging point and are ambushed by the inquisition and the Gray Knights.

This ambush is really made by Anglebane without the imperium knowing.

Anglebane has also captured the Redacted ship with the help of a traitor and killed the one member of the Redacted that can make perfect plasma weapons.

So the Redacted are now down to 4 members and it look like Anglebane will have his revenge.

 

But no, the Redacted's Callidus Temple Assassin is orders to destory the ship and Anglebane with it and the Assassin succeed.

Killing the Redacted follows, the assassin, the traitor and Anglebane.
Now the Redacted just need to escape the inquisition and the Gray Knights, lucky the cube has a big powerful demon that help them do just that.

Of course the demon doesn't really want anyone to escape so while the Redacted escapes, the demon kills one more of the Redacted, some Word Bearers, inquisition and the Gray Knights.

 

The 3 remaining Redacted then trick the Word Bearers to serve then and force the Necron to tell them where Lord Dominatus is so they can deliver the cube and get some answers.

They get to Lord Dominatus who has a lot of Alpha Legion serving him, by surprise he is not Alpharius.

Lord Dominatus is really a C'tan Shard Mephet'ran the Deceiver.

The Alpha Legion then tries to kill Mephet'ran, but fails.

Only the leader of Redacted survives, and he does it by using the cube on Mephet'ran.

Trapping Mephet'ran in the cube.
 

 

The end.

[SchultzChaos]

I.. But... Wow. Just wow.

[Bulwyf]

This was an odd book. I just finished it a couple of days ago. I can't recall any BL book that had as little character building in a novel. The only character to get anything to them was the leader. Loyalist Alpha Legion is apparently not just a thing for one strange warband but at the end with several warbands of AL you see several of them are loyalists.

 

So...that's different.

 

You don't get really any insights into the AL. What you get seems to show that the AL is completely at odds with each other. There's definitely some hints that Omegon is still around but nothing definite.

 

I'll be honest, when you expect Alpha Legion you expect Chaos Space Marines as the main characters in what is a depressing trend from BL to only have goodies as the main characters. When even Traitor legions are now shown to be goodie good Loyalists...it leaves a bad taste in one's mouth. When there's absolutely no character development, at all, in the entire book it feels like you are reading someone's pitch for splash pages for comic books.

 

This book reads like a disjointed action scenes from a 1980's Rambo style film strung along until the end.