Kharybdis or Dreadclaw or neither? Post chapter approved

[Marshlands]

So I was wondering peoples views on the tactical merit of the Dreadclaw and Kharybdis now that Chapter Approved has dropped.

 

Prior to CA they were 200 and 300 points respectively and the Kharybdis seemed worth the extra 100 for double capacity alone and a decent (and fun) choice of delivery system.

 

Now I'm thinking that at 130 points a Dreadclaw is affordable enough to be used in a similar way to a loyalist drop pod but with the added benefit of moving and venting exhaust in later turns.

 

What are other people's views? Do you have a preference and what do you put in them? With the CA points adjustments if you had 20 guys to drop would you use a kharybdis or two dreadclaws?

Edited December 29, 2017 by Marshlands

[Azekai]

I like the idea of dreadclaws, but since I often limit myself to smaller skirmishes I haven't been able to justify taking them in 8th (I have two I converted from old Doctor Who Genesis ark toys I scavenged). The idea of zooming around to absorb overwatch, tie up enemy shooting squads or block LoS is pretty appealing. Part of the problem with loyalist drop pods is you play a lot just to have the thing sit there and do almost nothing after the squad inside is deployed. The dreadclaw, on the other hand, can get really annoying if your opponent doesn't deal with it.

[hushrong]

I want a dreadclaw because I like the model and I think it would be a great way of chucking some Berzerkers at my enemies. With the points drop its a bit more tantalizing.

 

I like the idea of dreadclaws, but since I often limit myself to smaller skirmishes I haven't been able to justify taking them in 8th (I have two I converted from old Doctor Who Genesis ark toys I scavenged). The idea of zooming around to absorb overwatch, tie up enemy shooting squads or block LoS is pretty appealing. Part of the problem with loyalist drop pods is you play a lot just to have the thing sit there and do almost nothing after the squad inside is deployed. The dreadclaw, on the other hand, can get really annoying if your opponent doesn't deal with it.

None of these ideas ever occurred to me and I really like them.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Having used a Dreadclaw with my World Eaters very recently, I'd say it's definitely worth it to have at least one....perhaps two if you're going all-in on assault and/or point-blank shooting.

[Commissar K.]

Close to twice the cost of a Rhino but a great choice nontheless.

 

In reality if you dont play Daemons soon Id thake it. Mono WE actually needs it in my opinion.

 

Its worth the 130, just be sure to cram it. I like to use 10 Zerkers with it and that worked.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Commissar K.

[Zodd1888]

Close to twice the cost of a Rhino but a great choice nontheless.

 

In reality if you dont play Daemons soon Id thake it. Mono WE actually needs it in my opinion.

 

Its worth the 130, just be sure to cram it. I like to use 10 Zerkers with it and that worked.

If you're DG or TS you'd likely see two Rhinos anyway. Having one unit slogg around and the other in pod land around a nearby enemy objective. You've got two hard to move units disrupting the field.

 

Seems decent.

[TURBULENCE]

As a death guard player it's becoming more and more of an attractive choice. Seems like a great way to get plague marines right into their most effective range/ makes melee setups/blight bombardment easier to use

[Khornestar]

What do you all think about 2 units of 5 Berzerkers per Dreadclaw?

 

Both with icons of wrath, obviously; increases the likelihood that at least one unit will get a charge off. Less effective at killing than 10, but if the unit fails its charge, then they’ll probably get shot to death (or close enough to it to wipe the unit due to morale). The second unit that fails (unless they both succeed in charging) can move into prime position the next turn for whatever they need to do.

Edited January 1, 2018 by Juggernut

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Why not bump the units of 5 up 3 and run 2x8s in Dreadclaws? 

[Khornestar]

Well, Dreadclaws only have a capacity of 10, so a unit of 8 would have the same problem as 10. If it fails the charge, that's that. No backup plan.

[Commissar K.]

Well the back up plan is sometimes spending a Stratagem. Roll 6,1 for a charge, better re-roll 1 instead of the full result. If you roll 2 and 4 you might aswell re-roll it completely.

 

Now this is for WE Berzerkers and while its possible to fail, everything can be failed. Part of the risk/reward.

 

Alternatively fly to them, if its anti infantry heavy shooting :) The Claw does his AoE well against those armies.

Edited January 1, 2018 by Commissar K.

[Marshlands]

Thanks for all the replies! I've just ordered a Dreadclaw over a Kharybdis, glad i saw the points changes first and seems like everyone is pretty much in favour of that one now.

 

10 zerkers was my main thought, but also toying with 9 plague marines and a putrifier with a jump pack sorcerer dropping in for the DG grenade strategem. Had thought about this previously with a kharybdis but it was way too expensive even with warp time it's difficult to get everything into grenade range. Post CA with 9 guys the claw and the Character it's now clocking in at 357 points - pretty good for a potential 9D6 shots with S4, +1 to wound, Damage 2 and a bonus Mortal Wound on a 5 or 6.

 

Also my understanding is that chaos daemons can go in a Dreadclaw as it allows the Mark keyword to be transported... be interesting to see if the daemons codex gives any good options for that (maybe Bloodletters or Flamers if there's a way to move them again)

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

What do you all think about 2 units of 5 Berzerkers per Dreadclaw?

 

Both with icons of wrath, obviously; increases the likelihood that at least one unit will get a charge off. Less effective at killing than 10, but if the unit fails its charge, then they’ll probably get shot to death (or close enough to it to wipe the unit due to morale). The second unit that fails (unless they both succeed in charging) can move into prime position the next turn for whatever they need to do.

Did exactly that. Both did nothing with their plasma pistols, both failed charge and then got deleted by Repulsor and Hellblasters. The Claw itself went on to do amazing.

 

Couldn't use Commissar K's method because I had to use all my CP correcting so many bad die rolls elsewhere that I didn't have them to spare.

 

At least they were a fire sink that let my walkers get in with only light damage and wreck face....and the Claw itself almost won me the game with CC kills and disruption.

[The Traitor]

I'm thinking about getting one myself, with the price drop they seem very appealing. Also curious thing to note is that Cult of Destruction models don't seem to take more than one space in a dreadclaw, so you can hilariously take three units of mutilators/ obliterators and a character. Since mutilators also got a big price drop, it might be worth trying.

[Bulwyf]

I'm actually thinking of getting one to drop Lucius and some possessed on top of someone in my EC list.

[Marshlands]

I'm actually thinking of getting one to drop Lucius and some possessed on top of someone in my EC list.

Also not a bad way to guarantee noise marines get to do their thing - although that's where the Kharybdis might be better to get a unit of 20 down to max the VoTLW and shoot twice stratagem

[Bulwyf]

Noise marines are criminally underrated. I like having them to support Lucious and his Possessed since I can't get a better melee option for EC to put around him. I pray for the day GW gives us EC players our own codex with 40k versions of Palatine Blades and Phoenix Guard termies.

[Marshlands]

Noise marines are criminally underrated. I like having them to support Lucious and his Possessed since I can't get a better melee option for EC to put around him. I pray for the day GW gives us EC players our own codex with 40k versions of Palatine Blades and Phoenix Guard termies.

Not by me! Aside from Deep Striking them I'm pretty content to just infiltrate them with Alpha Legion, they might get shot at if you're opponent goes first but with a 2+ in cover they're pretty survivable and if they do still die, worst case is I only get to shoot with them once.

[Trevak Dal]

Are the points costs/data sheets in the chapter approved book?

[Commissar K.]

Are the points costs/data sheets in the chapter approved book?

Point costs yes, data sheet not. But you can google it.

[Flipl8]

 

I'm actually thinking of getting one to drop Lucius and some possessed on top of someone in my EC list.

Also not a bad way to guarantee noise marines get to do their thing - although that's where the Kharybdis might be better to get a unit of 20 down to max the VoTLW and shoot twice stratagem

If we're talking about Kharybdis, is it worth discussing the Storm Eagle as an alternative? Running it with a Vengeance Launcher, Hellstrike Missiles, and a twin Heavy Bolter, it clocks in at 295 points--80 points less than the Kharybdis. You could swap in twin Lascannons and still save, come to think of it.

 

For that price, you get the same infantry transport capacity (no dreads, though) and much better mobility. Firepower and durability seem to even out, at least at a glance. I haven't done the mathhammer on it.

 

I think the Eagle can reliably deliver its cargo to target on turn 2. Dropping 20 khorne berzerkers on the enemy flank would be pretty hilarious.

 

Question in my mind becomes: how valuable, exactly, is drop pod assault?

Edited January 3, 2018 by Maelstrom48

[Marshlands]

It guarantees you get in if you're opponent has an alpha strike but like you say is a very expensive way of doing it.

 

I think the Kharybdis also has some unique use through its exhaust attacks for some splash damage

[Trevak Dal]

Well you are dropping stuff 10" away from the badguys. In drop pods that can attack blob squads and put your opponent in a bad position to make bad choices.