Primaris "Soup"

[Zond]

I know Primaris aren't universally loved, and from what I've seen aren't hugely competitive. I've fallen in love with the models (not so much the background) and would love to do a crusading force of Primaris. I may add more Imperial elements at another point. I'd mostly want to use Primaris, Scouts and Forgeworld models, probably dreadnoughts and flyers. Give a sort of old guars shepherding the new feel.

 

The point of this rambling post was has anyone had any luck with combining various detatchments, for example Imperial Fist Outrider coupled with Salamander brigade?

 

Or is it better to look at Imperium as a whole to try that?

[Claws and Effect]

You can mix whatever you like. Just a matter of figuring out what you want to do with the list.

 

I've been thinking

about doing a "Hunt for Voldorius" list that mixes Raven Guard and White Scars.

[N1SB]

Hi Brothers, an excellent line of investigation.  I've been building and future planning 500 pt modules, that I can assemble into larger armies myself.  I'm writing this in the wake of discussions like: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342873-why-power-armour-troops-are-mediocre-and-what-can-be-done/

 

+++++

 

I'll just share an idea with a Primaris + Scouts detachment, since it was mentioned.

 

There is at least 1 quite competitive, but exceedingly simple, configuration we've been toying with, a Raven Guard "infiltration".  Here's just a sample list, 500 pts:

 

1 non-Primaris Space Marine Captain with Jump Pack, Teeth of Terra relic

 

6 Primaris Aggressors w/ Boltstorm Gauntlets & Fragstorm Launchers

 

10 Scouts w/ whatever (probably Combat Knifes surprisingly)*

 

5 Scouts w/ Sniper Rifles*

 

* Note - these can be replaced by Primaris Intercessors or Hellblasters if you want, it's just a list we're cobbling together

 

Chapter Tactic: Raven Guard, mainly for their Stratagem

 

The idea is as follows.  Primaris Aggressors are actually a really good unit: 6 shots each normally, 12 shots each if stationary due to their Firestorm special rule that you'll probably be more likely to use, comes with Power Fists.  The problem was transporting them.  Being forced to include the very points-heavy Repulsor tank is the hidden cost...but it can be completely avoided with just 1 Command Point with the Raven Guard Strike From the Shadows stratagem (i.e. deep strike for any squad).

 

The Captain, with the Jump Pack, drops right behind them to give them re-rolls and close combat support with the cheap and cheerful Teeth of Terra.

 

The 2 other squads, Scouts, were just mainly there to provide some back-up and to follow the rules that only half an army could like deep strike, held in reserves, etc.  They're infiltrators, but still qualify due to the fact they're setting up still in the deployment phase.  If you prefer Primaris, they can be an Intercessor and a Hellblaster squad, just to qualify as a Patrol detachment.  They would, of course, get for the Chapter Tactics enemies get -1 to hit penalty, etc.

 

The advantage from a 10 Scout squad with Combat Knives (over Bolters, say) is to infiltrate to where you plan to drop the Aggressors and support them in case they get mobbed by some tarpit.  The Sergeant himself will probably carry a Power Fist, I found Power Fist Sergeants the MVPs of whatever game I've played in any army.

 

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The tabletop idea is we're using the competitive advantages of Marines in this new meta without some of the hidden costs.

 

Power armour is no longer what it used to be...not bashing Marines, just acknowledging what I've noticed since 8th started...but Marines offer more than that.  They're still Toughness 4, and Scouts can still infiltrate; they were awesome in 7th, they're still awesome in 8th, for their points.  Especially in an age where Dedicated Transports are no longer cheap auto-takes, if anything just imho I personally think they should be the de facto Troops choice.

 

For Primaris specifically, I think we're still figuring them out, but it looks like Raven Guard Chapter Tactics work well with them.

 

Then Primaris Intercessors and Hellblasters with their 30" range, especially with the Raven Guard Chapter penalty to hit them.  I'm outranging and outhitting most opponents, this used to be the Tau's competitive advantage, but Raven Guard Primaris do it way better now.  But in general I think the Primaris Aggressor, with its sheer volume of shots (in this age of anything can kill anything, are quite good even though on paper they seem lacklustre just because they fire 12 shots per guy) has been a little overlooked.  That's likely due to their mid-range-ness and difficulty to justify a Repulsor's costs.  With Strike From the Shadows, it overcomes their mid-range-ness, and I would prefer them to even Terminators.

 

I can see the attractiveness of Salamanders and White Scars, but I was seriously thinking of a Raptors (an RG Successor, obviously) detachment.

 

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Overall, I do think an full-range-Imperium soup.  I agree with the notion that 8th's armies are just a mix of detachments and the benefit of both Imperium and Chaos is they can draw from many different codices, and might be meant to play more that way.  That's actually our strength, whereas other factions can only draw from 1 or 2 books.  We might as well take advantage of that.

 

I've actually playing with the idea on the Chaos side myself to great success.  In my case, in a themed army, I have a core of Daemons with Nurglings as Troops (again, another infiltrator) while taking Renegades & Heretics artillery (stolen from the Imperium lists!)  It's basically like:

 

Troops Brigade of Daemon Prince, Herald, 3 units of Nurglings of 3 each

 

Heavy Support Detachment of 1 Renegade & Heretics Commander, 3 artillery things (switches, still testing)

 

I've had success with it for a number of reasons, I think.  1st, it's the obvious cherry-picking; even among Daemons, Nurglings are a weirdly durable infiltrator that has many uses and qualify to Objective Secure, while the Renegades & Heretics can take great Astra Mlitarum vehicles.  2nd, it is the whole-is-greater-than-sum-of-the-parts, since they complement each other so well; Daemons generally lack shooting.  But 3rd and most importantly, I think, it confuses the hell out of opponents because it's a combination they probably haven't seen before.

 

I'm still thinking of adding things like Obliterators, i.e. stuff from the proper Chaos Space Marines codex.  Ironically that's due to the Chaos Daemons codex coming out with the buffs to Chaos Daemons, and it's possible even Obliterators can benefit as they qualify as such under Keywords.  That's not a known yet, will have to wait for the FAQ probably.

 

In short, I've been playing the way OP has described just due to the options available to Chaos, not in 1 codex/index, but across soon to be 4.  The only thing that's better is probably the Imperium, who has way more books to draw from.  Even without trying to min-maxing, just recognising it's Codex: Imperium rather than just Codex: Space Marines or Codex: Astra Militarum, I think, will really pay off.

Edited January 6, 2018 by N1SB