Using Assault: Yay or Nay?

[Lion's Crown]

I feel assault marines are an iconic part of the game and I'm wondering how efficient they might be at cleaning up mobs. Altought my first experience in that regard was downright catastrophic, I'm still inclined to give it a shot.

 

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I'm about to face some IG player and he'll have blobs and tanks equipped with flamers to protect his tanks, as well as a solid transport (Tauroch I think?).

 

I feel we are good vs elites troops and hq's in general but going throught blobs and tanks force us to make difficult choices.

 

One Nephilim on one side, the Assaults on the others, Sammael and the Black Knights pour throught while the Deathwing Knights attack tanks.

(on a quick note can Nephilim shoot 2 missiles or just 1? They would be for the tanks too. Tx).

 

It's still kinda weak vs a lot of tanks I know but I'm sure he'll expect me to field an IK while what I really want to do is win VP and control the table.

 

By the end of the game my models are almost spent but I should be able to jink and hide my way throught a victory with a comfortable advance in vp.

 

Thoughts?

[dtse]

I’m sorry. After reading your post I’m not really sure what is going on. If you are looking for advice on strategy or lists can you tell us what is your list and your opponents and what the mission is.

[Lion's Crown]

Are Assault marines a good choice for DA for thinning out the heard?

[Berzul]

The thing about assault marines is this:

 

Flamers are not that good, because you will always deepstrike out of range. Had we received homers like the ones the T'au have, for instance, this might not be the case. But alas, we have no way of landing flamers close enough to get a shot on a drop.

 

Plasma pistols are less expensive this edition, but it is still a very low quantity of shots.

 

You are dropping a squad that, on full force, will be around 190 points, for 10 wounds at T4 and a 3+ save, that hit twice on S4 for a total of 20 attacks (assuming the sgt comes with a power weapon).

 

For an equivalent expenditure, you could bring in a Ravenwing Bike Squad, that shots twice or even four times the amount of shots an assault squad has, can move just as fast or faster (with the edge on assault marines being that they have fly, but the edge on the bikers being that they have turbo boost and speed of the raven), can hit just as hard (same S, same AP, similar amount of hits, and more when bolstered by an Ancient), and that comes with almost twice the amount of wounds when at full force (6-8 bikes plus an attack bike) with a similar save but an extra toughness.

 

I like assault marines, but so far this edition I have yet to use them. Every time I try, I end up bringing bikes instead. Is just what we are good at. Bikes will almost always be a better choice.

[FarFromSam]

Hmmm, not counting the drop pod Lions blade days, I only used them as a counter assault/speed bump for gun lines. When matched against another gun line, they had a hard time surviving no man's land.

 

If they were troops I'd run them every game, but as is, they tie up FA slots where we have better choices.

 

Final word, they look cool, they're not bad, and they're green. Shouldn't be too hard to find a spot for them.

[Lion's Crown]

The only thing I see is if there are a lot of cover then they might be ok since they can jump above it. But that's a hell of a rare ciscumstance to know in advance.

 

I wanted to stick in close combat so the rest of his troops wouldn't be able to shoot me. Altought he can always fall back and do it anyway. Wow. They are still useless this edition how disapointing.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Lion's Crown

[Kilofix]

Assault squads fly though. So they kinda can kill flyers in cc lol.

[Syphid]

Assault squads are disruption units. They target shooting squads that aren't great in melee and force your opponent to either slog it out in melee or fall back off of an objective or terrain. You have to be willing to spend a CP for command refill if you want to charge after deep strike, and always use LoS blocking terrain and cover. Pick targets wisely, assault squads don't do well against dedicated melee units.

[dtse]

Assault squads suck unfortunately. Spend your points elsewhere.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Shame but true

[SnakeChisler]

Rievers with grapnel launchers are interesting as they ignore vertical distances, you can hide them pretty well

 

If your thinning out guard though lots of bullets tends to work best, like Orks heavy bolters, assault cannons hurricane bolters etc.. Darkshroud to blunt the return fire

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I don't disagree that Assault marines are in a bad place right now but dismissing them as points bad spent without at least trying to figure out how can they fit and be of use would be more helpful and according to the forum mission statement. After all if we only gain from knowing how to use all units, even those that might suck at a first glance.

[G8Keeper]

I think to make them decent you have to spend points on support characters. Imagine 10 in a land raider with asmodai and a lieutenant, possibly even an ancient. Suddenly they don't look too bad with 4 attacks each. Very very expensive however and I suspect a company vets squad would come in at alot less points even including some power weapons, albeit 5 wounds worse off.

[dtse]

I don't disagree that Assault marines are in a bad place right now but dismissing them as points bad spent without at least trying to figure out how can they fit and be of use would be more helpful and according to the forum mission statement. After all if we only gain from knowing how to use all units, even those that might suck at a first glance.

Tried them many times. They are not worth the points. Inceptors maybe. Still to be decided. But assault marines have had 6 months to be tried and they suck.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

You missed the point. Not every game is a tournament game so they will have their uses even if there's something more efficient in their place.

Since this is a forum and we're supposed to share our experience with all kinds of units and game types, by simply saying to not use them will not help those that will still want to try said unit by themselves.

In resume, in this forum we try to get not just the short answers and also the long ones. The why and why not and give all the info so people can make an informed decision.

[Berzul]

I have a game using the Cities of Death rules today against some necrons. I am going to bring a squad of 10, with a plasma pistol and power axe on the sgt., and a couple of flamers on the squad, all on jump packs. I'm expecting their ability to deepstrike and then move across terrain without penalty, to make them worth the 190 points investment.

You missed the point. Not every game is a tournament game so they will have their uses even if there's something more efficient in their place.
Since this is a forum and we're supposed to share our experience with all kinds of units and game types, by simply saying to not use them will not help those that will still want to try said unit by themselves.
In resume, in this forum we try to get not just the short answers and also the long ones. The why and why not and give all the info so people can make an informed decision.

 

That is a good point. The idea here is to try and argue for and/or against each unit, so that the decision to bring them along (or not) can be an informed one. Just stating a unit sucks, true though it may be, is of little use for someone who is trying to figure out why.

[Lion's Crown]

I have a game using the Cities of Death rules today against some necrons. I am going to bring a squad of 10, with a plasma pistol and power axe on the sgt., and a couple of flamers on the squad, all on jump packs. I'm expecting their ability to deepstrike and then move across terrain without penalty, to make them worth the 190 points investment.

You missed the point. Not every game is a tournament game so they will have their uses even if there's something more efficient in their place.

Since this is a forum and we're supposed to share our experience with all kinds of units and game types, by simply saying to not use them will not help those that will still want to try said unit by themselves.

In resume, in this forum we try to get not just the short answers and also the long ones. The why and why not and give all the info so people can make an informed decision.

 

That is a good point. The idea here is to try and argue for and/or against each unit, so that the decision to bring them along (or not) can be an informed one. Just stating a unit sucks, true though it may be, is of little use for someone who is trying to figure out why.

 

Please don't hesitate to come here and give us some feedback. Good luck!

[Helias_Tancred]

I don't think they were ever meant to be a hammer type of unit. They also tend to do best vs enemy infantry. Saying that, I don't think they are in a "bad" place, but the idea that they are comes more from player error in how they are used and viewed.

 

I'm pretty happy with the assault squad that I use. Ten men, jump packs, 2 plasma pistols, 2 eviscerators, a thunder hammer and combat shield on the sergeant. I also run my company chaplain (jump pack, crozius, plasma pistol) with them. They can take on a variety of targets.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I’m loading up one of my new lieutenants with a jump pack to accompany my jp Chappy with Aslt Sqd too.

Sure they need buffing, but what doesn’t ;)

[breng77]

I'm not sure they really have a good home in the DA book they don't particularly benefit from our CT or any stratagems. They don't make great use of the fly keyword because their shooting is only so so. They are mediocre, you can use them but doing so is purposely passing up several better options for their role.

[RayJ]

I'm pretty sure our opinion on them is based on statements by game designers that they are great assault units.

 

Expense compared to damage output and survivability is very lacking. Without some sort of special buff, their best purpose is to just shut off enemy shooting and help with board control.

 

Unfortunately, their stats make them ineffective at it compared to units that can kill things at range for the same points (also turning off enemy shooting).

 

I keep looking at BA special rules and seeing some effective combinations for them, but we don't have much that can do the same. Especially for the same price.

[Berzul]

 

 

I have a game using the Cities of Death rules today against some necrons. I am going to bring a squad of 10, with a plasma pistol and power axe on the sgt., and a couple of flamers on the squad, all on jump packs. I'm expecting their ability to deepstrike and then move across terrain without penalty, to make them worth the 190 points investment.

 

 

You missed the point. Not every game is a tournament game so they will have their uses even if there's something more efficient in their place.

Since this is a forum and we're supposed to share our experience with all kinds of units and game types, by simply saying to not use them will not help those that will still want to try said unit by themselves.

In resume, in this forum we try to get not just the short answers and also the long ones. The why and why not and give all the info so people can make an informed decision.

That is a good point. The idea here is to try and argue for and/or against each unit, so that the decision to bring them along (or not) can be an informed one. Just stating a unit sucks, true though it may be, is of little use for someone who is trying to figure out why.

Please don't hesitate to come here and give us some feedback. Good luck!

Just had a match. Against Necrons, in Cities of Death rules, but on a Maelstrom Scenario (Cloak and Shadows). I decided to bring a flamer squad of assault marines along.

 

The good: I really think this is pretty much THE scenario they are good for.

 

The bad: So are Reivers. By that I mean, they shined as a maneauverable unit to cross the gap and get where other squads couldn't. But thats it.

 

The ugly: Because their combat prowess is just sub par. I did manage to use them to tie down a blob of warriors and scarabs for a couple of turns, and harass them. But my damage output just couldn't do much.

[sneakybamsen]

Against guard, if they get across the board, or deep strike and succeed their charge, they can be decent at killing chaff. But it's a big if. The few times that I do bring assault squads, they tend to just die, even if I try to keep them out of harms way. Of course, that means something else is not being shot at, but it still feels a little underwhelming.

 

My last game with assault marines was a "demi company" with tank support (land raider crusader and a couple of transports) containing 10 assault marines with jump packs. Against tyranids. It was in july, so no codices for either player. The squad got shot to bits before they did anything.

 

Of course, that list was on the gentle side, and didn't provide many tough choices for my opponent, so I cannot with that say that assault marines are bad (nor do I want to), but there are stronger choices for the same slot, so to say. Assault marines are damn cool though, and I have 15 or more of them painted, so they need to see tabletime once in a while.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I found out that kitted with plasma pistols and backed by an Interrogator Chaplain they're decent in CC.

To get them into CC and with the right foe can be a bit tricky so there has to be enough terrain on the board or vehicles to cover their presence.

[FerociousBeast]

The concept of assault marines has always been cool, but for several editions now, they’ve felt weak in most marine codexes. Chainswords aren’t choppy enough, jump packs aren’t jumpy enough, and the standard marine profile isn’t marine-y enough to live up to their fluff representation. Primaris was GW’s opportunity to fix the last part, but they flubbed that (IMO). 8th coulda/shoulda fixed the chainsword, but didn’t do enough.