A Discussion On Intercessors...

[neonmole]

Hi Guys,

 

I, like many (I know there are conflicting opinions) am coming to the conclusion that Tacs are not in a great place these day. That however is not the subject of this discussion!

 

It’s relevant however as it has led me to consider other choices... I know people rate scouts highly, and that’s fine, but for me, I don’t want to play scout company!

 

That leaves us with intercessors, post codex I think these guys have some real real potential.

 

There are 2 big reasons I think specifically *Blood Angels* Intercessors are good, i.e, not just red marines.

 

1. Red Thirst (obviously). Takes their 2 attacks from a fun extra, to a legitimate threat if they close the distance.

 

2. Standard of Sacrifice. Makes them a really tough proposition to shift. I can’t think of any tougher troop unit in the game point for point. 9pts for T4, 3+ / 5+ FNP is very efficient.

 

I also think we have some units that synergize very well with these guys - the two I am primarily thinking of are

 

1. the Sanguinor - while they are not a dedicated combat unit, and you probably don’t take this guy exclusive for buffing them, if you take him and manage to not get him killed then once the intercessors arrive they are pretty brutal.

 

2. Priest. Self explanatory. Suddenly your many attacks would the majority of enemies on 2s, or at worst 4s.

 

The way I envision this working is taking them en-mass. Maybe a 2-3 large 10 man units as a core that march up the field to rapid fire and eventually charge, combined with a few 5 mans for backfield objective camping (you could trade scouts or las Tacs in this role).

 

Thoughts?

[Rammael]

I too have come to opinion that intercessors are a great troops choice. However they are not 9 points a model they are 18. But for 2 wounds 2 attacks and a potential 5+ FNP Tho they are great. I have 3 squads of 5 with a lieutenant and the ancient protecting my 3 predators. They certainly last much longer than the bolter scout. I think scouts are useful with combat weapons for holding up chaff T1. Edited December 31, 2017 by Rammael

[Brother Crimson]

If you don’t aim for a brigade they are good tough troop choice. They are great for counter-charge and holding back/mid field but don’t overdo it.

 

They have two major weaknesses:

1- lack of mobility, repulsor is expensive, they don’t have scout deployment rule and no deep strike option.

2- no real heavy gun, grenades are nice but not even close to the usefulness of heavy bolter and lascannon.

 

I would also go 5men to have two grenades.

 

I have never tried as much as 30 but 10-15 of them makes good troops.

[neonmole]

Hi Rammael,

 

I probably should have made it clear that I meant 9pts per wound at those stats.

 

Were I under the impression they were 9 pts per model I probably wouldn’t have many questions as to how good they are! ;)

[Ogun]

Intercessors seem to be a very solid choice for BA, but I would agree with Brother Crimson's point, perhaps avoid overdoing it. Unless you give them Repulsors, they are going to struggle to get around. I think they also work best as a surprise. BA have so many nasty assault units that some opponents are liable to downplay the effectiveness of a bolter equipped unit. I tended to find that with my flamer /sergeant power fist equipped tac combat squad. My temptation would be to run 10 intercessors in a Repulsor, if you want them part of your main assault, with maybe a combat squad for support. Use Scouts or tacs to secure ground behind your main advance, mainly because bolt rifles are a good irritant, but heavies will do more damage where it counts at range.

[Karhedron]

If I had a Repulsor, I would rather put a more expensive unit in it like Hellblasters for protection or a shorter ranged unit like Aggressors for delivery.

 

I quite like Intercessors at 18ppm but I am content to leave mind in a back  or mif-field role rather than trying to advance them  rapidly up the field.

[Pathstrider]

I like them a lot, I think that red thirst really helps them out to make people think twice about charging them and giving us options to counter charge.

 

I run the assault version and hover around 24" range with hellblasters and the standard of sacrifice.

Edited January 1, 2018 by Pathstrider

[Explorer1]

I'm really not convinced by Intercessors. IMHO they are still too expensive. Scouts are so much more flexible. Sure they are more resilient, but how important is that really? You can almost get 2 scouts for the same price as one Intercessor. That's just way more efficient. 

 

Using the banner to make them more resilient and/or a priest to make them more killy is trying too hard IMO. The banner is far better used on something like Sanguinary Guard to make them really hard, and the Priest is better on something that is already pretty killy, to make them more killy. Using them on Intercessors is a "waste".

 

BA are all about killing your enemy, not outlasting them. Choosing the resilient option, and investing points to make them more resilient, is IMO, not the way to build BA. Invest resources in the Killy stuff, and take scouts.

[dakkamasta]

I've come to like intercessors aswell recently and have purchased 10 for two squads of 5. Scouts are fantastic and I will always use them for their cost effectiveness and deployment shenanigans, but I've grown to like intercessors for the same reason stated by the OP.

 

Intercessors are a solid, jack of all trades unit that give your army a solid core. They are resilient against small arms fire, their bolt rifles provide decent shooting, but what sells me the most is their 2 attacks base paired with Red Thirst. Unlike tactical marines these guys can actually hurt things in combat, paired with their AP -1 bolt rifles (the other 2 variants I don't like) they can hurt a wide variety of targets.

 

Where I disagree with the OP is with the amount to take and with supporting them. In my opinion 10-15 in 5 man squads is the sweet spot without spending too many points that should be going towards more killy stuff. Similarly I think that they don't really need character support unless that character is already there to buff other units (such as a Captain/Lieutenant combo buffing your tanks, with the intercessors in front as a screen). Like Explorer1 said (despite not liking intercessors altogether), our characters should be buffing the units and do the heavy lifting.  Our troops aren't the big hitters so their contribution should be considered as extra firepower rather than what you depend on to remove threats off the table.

[MeltaRange]

I've spent a lot of time playing with Intercessors both with Vanilla and now in a dozen games or so with BA.  TL;DR, I'm in love.  At this point I can't see myself playing a 2k game without taking at least 20 (4x5) Intercessors.  Typically I take them with 10 (2x5) Tacticals to achieve the double battalion.  Figured I'd throw some thoughts down on this thread.

 

For Blood Angels, you hit the nail on the head.  Standard of Sacrifice + Red Thirst really unlocks the essence of the Primaris statline and intended usage.

 

I always love how people say "yeah well overcharged plasma and so many D2 weapons out there!" and I always love to laugh a little about it because if they are using overcharged plasma to shoot at my 90 point Troop choice, what are they using to fire at my other units?  It's hard to take that much plasma.  Yes, there are a plethora of D2 weapons out there, but there's way more high rate of fire D1 weapons out there (at least in my meta) that shred troops and Intercessors can soak those up nicely.  Yes, Black Knights and Dark Reapers will mangle these guys.  Everything has a counter.  As a sidenote though, the Standard actually works awesome against D2 because every FNP save forces the next point of damage to finish off the wounded target instead of killing another whole guy.

 

One thing that I will caution you is to get too crazy with melee buffs for these guys.  They aren't really combat units and I think spending too many points on them is a mistake.  Keep 'em cheap but effective.  Now, if you happen to/can position yourself so the melee buffs meant for your actual combat units buffs them too, great!  But I'd rather take, for example, a Lieutenant over a Priest, or a Captain over a Chaplain since they are still primarily a shooting unit and should be treated as such.

 

That being said, I have been toying around with the Terminator Ancient over the Primaris version.  So far, I like him.  He's a fair bit more expensive, but I like the flexibility to deep strike, has a 2+ and a Thunder Hammer, and the fact that he synergizes well with my firebase. (Librarian Dread + Primaris Lieutenant + 4x5 Intercessors means I can skip the Captain and still get 'to hit' re-rolls either thru Wisdom of the Ancients in shooting or the Banner in melee) I like the Primaris Ancient, but I like him a lot better for Vanilla.

 

Intercessors serve a role but you can go overboard like some posters have mentioned.  They work great in the midfield as a firebase and to hide your characters like Mephiston who can leap out and charge with Wings/Quickening.  They work great as screens, board control or for suicide charges to tie up a unit from shooting.  But more Intercessors at the expense of the BA signature Jump Pack units is not optimal IMO.

 

One thing I just can't get on though - taking units of 10 with Blood Angels.  You suggested it in your post, that's why I'm mentioning it.  I just don't see the reason not to take 2 units of 5.  I definitely understand the perks of 1 unit of 10, and use it when I'm playing Vanilla sometimes,(esp as Ultra tactics) but given the Standard of Sacrifice 6" MODEL bubble, I just think it's a sub par choice.  I can make you a pro & cons list but I think you get the picture.

[Morticon]

Really, really like them.  Though, I dont know if id base a list around them, personally.  Defs need to play around more!! 

 

Also, regarding why 2x smaller untis vs 1x bigger - sometimes fewer deploys will help with the first turn. 

[Lord Janos]

Personally I love them, only managed to play 3 games of 8th so far and they have always performed solidly. Ive used both 2x units of 5 and 2x units of 10 and I much prefer the bigger unit size. Might sound obvious but it just means they can kick out more fire.

 

Whilst by no means unkillable, camped in some cover they are quite hard to shift. They won't last long against a combat specific unit (a unit of meganobz tore through mine like paper) but all in all I really like playing them.

 

Can't comment on points efficiency as all the games I've played have been power level.

[Blindhamster]

They've been good for me, they provide better shooting than scouts or tacticals overall (can definitely be argued that the heavy weapon is a big deal on the latter two units though) whilst retaining the melee effectiveness of melee scouts and being more resilient than both.

 

They are versatile which is their main draw. Whereas scouts can do some specific tasks better and likewise tacticals can do others better (based on loadout for each of those units). The intercessors can switch roles as the game progresses.

 

If intercessor sergeants gain power swords as an option (they really should have them, especially as we have a legitimate model for one) then that's just another melee bugger to the unit.

[Ushtarador]

I like Intercessors quite a bit as well. They are surprisingly robust, they are almost always in range of something thanks to 30" bolters, and they have a good amount of attacks in CC.

 

I think it's the kind of unit that looks underwhelming on paper, and really doesn't do anything special. However, they perform surprisingly well anyway on the tabletop, I can only recommend playing a few games with them and see for yourself.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Ushtarador

[Pendent]

I like Intercessors quite a bit as well. They are surprisingly robust, they are almost always in range of something thanks to 30" bolters, and they have a good amount of attacks in CC.

 

I think it's the kind of unit that looks underwhelming on paper, and really doesn't do anything special. However, they perform surprisingly well anyway on the tabletop, I can only recommend playing a few games with them and see for yourself.

 

I've run Intercessors as my troops choice in every game of 8th after I got my Dark Imperium box built and have never once regretted it. They're a really solid blend of firepower, durability and post codex assault ability. It is *really* funny to have a 5 man squad charge into a bunch of guardsmen and murder them all in a single round because they're wounding on 2's.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

They are perfect as a five man squad with bolter rifles and a grenade launcher. Better than scouts or tactical Marines imo .

[Are Verlo]

Really, really like them. Though, I dont know if id base a list around them, personally. Defs need to play around more!!

 

Also, regarding why 2x smaller untis vs 1x bigger - sometimes fewer deploys will help with the first turn.

Perhaps 1 10-strong unit and then combat squad or keep 10-strong, depending on terrain, matchup, mission and number of drops?

 

Edit: 2 5-strong units will make easier to meet detatchment «troops tax»

Edited January 6, 2018 by Are Verlo

[brother_b]

I've got some of these ordered and on the way. I'll probably play them as two 5 man squads. That's 20 wounds on two separate groups I can place in cover somewhere. A 10 man squad sounds fun if I want to limit drops and have a really hard-to-move group on a back objective.

[Panzer]

I honestly struggle to find a good reason to play them as 10 big unit.

As Primaris army I already have fewer drops usually, 2x5 make it easier to fill out detachments, are tactically more flexible, easier to hide, more likely for the enemy to waste shooting on, are easier to forget for the enemy since they are "just 5", two sergeants and two grenade launchers.

While 1x10 are more efficient when getting buffed (tho why would you buff them over your other more capable units) and easier to get all of them into melee (tho despite the BA bonus and A2 they are still primarily a shooty unit).

[Blindhamster]

My primaris brigade hammerered (14:1 VP and tabled by turn 5) grey knights at 2050 points (it was that size because the imperial knight player that we both also played wanted it to be)

 

The intercessors did their job nicely

Edited January 6, 2018 by Blindhamster

[Bonzi]

We don't have bad choices in the Troop department, but they do fill different roles.

 

Intercessors are so good as a midfield or backfield firebase for anti-infantry. 30" and -1 AP is great for shredding screen units that foil our melee chargers. They are also solidly resilient and are good in melee thanks to BA CT.

 

Tacticals are much more limited in role than they once were. They remain a good way to fill out detachment taxes and score a heavy weapon to boot. I also like two 5 man tac squads mounted in one rhino, each with plasma gun and Combi plasma. It's a great counterpunch unit that can hurt tanks, heavy infantry, and marauding monsters while also filling out a detachment tax.

 

Scouts are great frontline units and invaluable deep strike screeners. Just a couple units can up an 18" buffer between your key backfield units and enemy deepstrikers. I also like them on the front lines soaking up overwatch so my melee units can charge in unscathed.

 

Personally my favorite is a tie between scouts and Intercessors, but I always feel good putting down some Tacticals and seeing them perform better than the internet Doom and gloom meta would suggest.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Bonzi

[Panzer]

*Almost no bad choices.

I still think that Sniper Scouts aren't a good choice. Sniper really need something better than S4 AP0 D1 to be worth taking (or be ridiculously cheap lol). Dealing a Mortal wound on 6+ on the wound roll is pretty crappy as well for a single shot weapon (still better than the T'au Sniperdrones without any Mortal wound effect tho).

[NTaW]

I take sniper scouts because I have the models, two units of 5. Even a 1 point reduction would make them feel a bit better for what you get back (though 2 points would be preferred). Outside of bubblewrap/setup that Scouts are great for the weapon option is just too niche to expect a return from consistently.

[Panzer]

I still hope the Intercessor Stalker Bolt Rifle gets the Sniper rule eventually (aka next Codex in a few years). S4 AP-2 would mean that you could actually reliably take wounds off of a character. :P

[Calistarius]

I take sniper scouts because I have the models, two units of 5. Even a 1 point reduction would make them feel a bit better for what you get back (though 2 points would be preferred). Outside of bubblewrap/setup that Scouts are great for the weapon option is just too niche to expect a return from consistently.

I'm in the same boat.  I don't own any other form of scouts.  I'm going to buy some intercessors before I buy more scouts though.  I just plan on using a squad of 5 per battalion with some tacticals for backfield objectives.  I've had some success when using intercessors as a moving screen.  They're able to kill the opposing screen more effectively before losing a model. I like them.