Reiver Shenanigans Question

[Thrown Pommel]

So this was brought to my attention by the Forge the Narrative Podcast and I think it could be worth considering if it works the way I think it does...

 

Take a unit of reivers (or two, or three...) and equip grapnel launchers and grav chutes. Looking at the codex there is no restriction on using both upgrades at the same time. Equip pistol/ccw. When deep striking over 9" away from an enemy, do so on top of terrain in so that the horizontal distance between the Reivers and enemy models is less than the vertical distance. For example, one could deep strike right next to an enemy unit if the terrain fixture was over 9" tall. If said terrain is something more reasonable like 6" tall, deep strike 4" away from enemy models, etc. The grapnel launchers ignore vertical distance for movement, so the ensuing charge will be much more manageable than a risky 9" gamble. Send this 110 point package of violence, which by the way packs as many attacks as Death Company with chainswords, and has twice the wounds, into your opponent's backline and wreak havoc.

 

My question is that the grapnel launcher rule explains that vertical "movement" is ignored for a unit equipped with grapnel launchers. Does this refer to specifically the movement phase or any time the unit moves, which would include making a charge? I would post the actual wording of the rule but I'm not sure about the policy on posting full quotes from books.

 

If this works the way I think it does reivers are seriously good!

[Explorer1]

I think you're right - thats is how it seems to work. Interesting. Never put those 2 things together. 

 

Having said that, you then have a model that's 2pts more than a Death Company guy with a Jump Pack .... that has one less attack on the charge, and only moves 6" after he deep strikes. And of course the trick only works if there is terrain next to the thing you want to charge. I suspect that a 3d6 charge with a re-roll from Lemartes will be more reliable .... you do have 2 wounds though.

[Panzer]

Yeah already doing that. Was a hard pill to swallow for my opponent the first time I did it but 3 S4 attacks are still not game breaking so he is not too bitter about it. ^^

[toaae]

My one concern is it seems too much like a gimmick, something you'll blow your opponents out of the water with the first time they face them, but in subsequent games, they'll shut it right down.

[Morticon]

Seems like an oversight, but a clear and handy one, none-the-less! 

Although, its a bit pricey - especially considering if you dont know youre going to get terrain that is beneficial for this gimmick.  

[Panzer]

There's not much the opponent can do against such a thing unless he wants to heavily restrict his own armys movement during the first three turns....which is more than fine itself.

The thing is just that while annoying for the opponent it's ultimately not much better than some guys with Stormbolter dropping in rapid fire range or having to face a bunch of Noise Marines. It's still just some S4 AP0 attacks even tho we get a +1 to wound in the first round.

[Blindhamster]

There's not much the opponent can do against such a thing unless he wants to heavily restrict his own armys movement during the first three turns....which is more than fine itself.

The thing is just that while annoying for the opponent it's ultimately not much better than some guys with Stormbolter dropping in rapid fire range or having to face a bunch of Noise Marines. It's still just some S4 AP0 attacks even tho we get a +1 to wound in the first round.

31 attacks will get 21 hits, 15 wounds (18 if there is a priest nearby).

 

That's around 5 MEQ casualties. If it's chaos marines there's a good chance they lose a couple more due to morale. Which basically means they crippled a unit. It's also not taking into account the AP-1 pistols either.

 

Which is effectively another 10 shots, 6 or 7 hits. 3 wounds, and another 1.5 models dead.

 

 

I do feel that reivers should be AP-1 on their swords though.

 

Personally i feel like the reivers are better utilised coming in behind terrain and hiding a turn, then using the grapnels to ignore the terrain to get to enemies so that they can get in range to use their grenades.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Blindhamster

[Charlo]

Can't get my head around this... I think I'm looking too hard into it... Do you measure from model to model or the base of the building or what?

 

Its seems nasty!

[Blindhamster]

Can't get my head around this... I think I'm looking too hard into it... Do you measure from model to model or the base of the building or what?

 

Its seems nasty!

When deepstriking you measure base to base.

 

So if a model is on top of the building that's a good 3 to 6 inches of distance for the purpose of "more than 9 inches" but then when it comes to charging and you measure model to model, the grapnels means you ignore vertical distance. Therefore making the charge super easy.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Blindhamster

[Slothysaur]

Not to derail the thread, but could this trick be applied to jump pack equipped models as well?

[Panzer]

Not to derail the thread, but could this trick be applied to jump pack equipped models as well?

No because the FLY keyword allows you to ignore terrain when you move over it but not when you move on or from it. The wording is a bit different there.

[Slothysaur]

Wow, talk about subtle difference's in wording. I'm going to have to peruse the BRB again...

[Thrown Pommel]

My one concern is it seems too much like a gimmick, something you'll blow your opponents out of the water with the first time they face them, but in subsequent games, they'll shut it right down.

 

Oh its 100% situational. See that artillery crew behind a building? Dealt with. Backfield shooting unit camping in cover? Silenced. Its not how you want to use reivers every time but its definitely a useful trick to have in mind.

 

 

 

I think you're right - thats is how it seems to work. Interesting. Never put those 2 things together. 

 

Having said that, you then have a model that's 2pts more than a Death Company guy with a Jump Pack .... that has one less attack on the charge, and only moves 6" after he deep strikes. And of course the trick only works if there is terrain next to the thing you want to charge. I suspect that a 3d6 charge with a re-roll from Lemartes will be more reliable .... you do have 2 wounds though.

 

Yes, they are a tad pricy for 5 models. However, I think they have value as a sturdier assault unit than death company or vanguard veterans, able to soak some damage after the first blow. 3 attacks per model and 4 on the sarge with combat blades is no joke, even if it is a bit less than what a Death Co. marine with a chainsword will do on the charge, and the reivers will take more punishment afterwards.

 

Currently toying around with the idea of using Death Company and reivers in tandem. Death company from the vanguard and kill the screen or most dangerous target, depending on load out, and the reivers clean up what is left and be a huge nuisance to your opponent. Even if they don't make the charge turn 1 if firepower is devoted to a reiver squad its not shooting the Death Company. Wont be able to test for a while unfortunately but I think the idea is sound on paper.

[Indefragable]

Drivers are the only Primaris unit is consider. I like the potential of no overwatch grenades + -1Ld combined with a Behold the Golden Host Strategem with SG.

[Panzer]

To be honest Reivers (together with Flamer Aggressors) is the Primaris unit I'm the least convinced of. I really wish they had some AP on their melee weapon.

[Riot Earp]

Yeah ba intercessors do an good job in shooting and meele so i just dont see a use for reivers now. 

Edited January 9, 2018 by Riot Earp

[Aothaine]

Yeah ba intercessors do an good job in shooting and meele so i just dont see a use for reivers now. 

 

 

They are still very useful depending on map-type, army composition, and goal of the unit. 

 

Reivers attacking any back line unit will do very well. They are great at getting into assault without suffering from over watch and holding up an important unit from firing.

 

I think the main consideration is how you want to build your army. They have a place and can do amazing things. The primaris platform is very strong and I think most people are still adjusting to it.

[Charlo]

Reivers are Scouts on steroids, but they exchange holding objectives and a troops slot for much more resilience and hitting power.

 

I quite like them, a block of 10 will be a tough nut to crack before they start wrecking havoc.

[Panzer]

Dunno, my unit of 5 in cover got obliterated in one round by some Onager....god how I hate that AdMech can't build a good list without over the top shooting by durable units. :D

[Charlo]

Dunno, my unit of 5 in cover got obliterated in one round by some Onager....god how I hate that AdMech can't build a good list without over the top shooting by durable units.

 

What Onager loadout was he running?

[Panzer]

 

Dunno, my unit of 5 in cover got obliterated in one round by some Onager....god how I hate that AdMech can't build a good list without over the top shooting by durable units.

 

What Onager loadout was he running?

 

I honestly can't say. I have an incredible hard time remembering which doomsday weapon does what lol

It was the one that with different ranged profiles I think?

[Charlo]

Ah so the multiple rockets? Shouldnt do too much to Reivers... It's -1 to hit non-FLY units and only a -1 to saves on most shots with D1.

[Panzer]

Let me check via Battlescribe real quick, I know he doesn't like the Icarus Array so I doubt it was that one...

 

...Could've been the Eradication Beamer. That one gets a better profile when shooting at a unit within 12" as well. I just know that my Reivers never stood a chance. :P