Blight Haulers and Infantry Lists: Tactica

[Prot]

I'm struggling to make a list I like, and that will function against some of the regular opponents I see (Astra/Nids/Orks/Marines/Renegades/Chaos/Eldar most often)

 

The problem I'm having is the Myphitic Blight Haulers. They are multi-rolled and are apparently geared to help our Infantry based lists.

 

 

So really what do we get?

 

At a 142 points (minimum unit size of 1) the unit is not cheap.

 

- Bile Spurt- essentially a very unreliable D3, 12" Heavy Bolter

- Gnashing Maw - gives us a CC plague weapon option at -2 AP

And the real meat of the shooting:

- Frag/Krak missile launcher

- Multimelta

 

Special rules and some Intangibles:

 

- Putrescent Fog: Infantry -entirely- within 7" gets cover

-. "Tri" rules: Can move and shoot without penalty (so can our Helbrutes) and in squads of 3 BS is increased by 1. (making it passable for shooting)

-  Daemonic, and Disgustingly Resilient.

- They are minus 1 to hit in CC

- Dreadnought type wound count = no degrading scale

 

So there's some good stuff there; some subtle, and not so subtle rules, but after experimenting I'm finding against strong opponents I really need to use a unit of 3.

 

That brings the cost of the squad to 426 points! That's... a lot. In fact it's so much I'm having trouble making the army feel complete.

 

So far I like to take a pair of Plague Crawlers. I also like the Bloat Drones, and Blightlord Termies. There's just no way I can fit this stuff in while actually having an 'infantry' to protect. Also the HQ's start to suffer. If nearly 25% of my list is these three critters, it means removing a lot of stuff.

 

I'm curious what you guys think?

 

 

[Charlo]

It feels like they're supposed to make something like a "Defensive" Plague Marine based army work, giving them cover against the likes of Medium-level firepower like Assault Cannons (S6 AP1 etc) as well as boosting their save to a 2+ against AP0.

 

You like up the unit in front of your plague marines, who stand around them (along with the supporting characters) and you slowly advance with Plague's handling the anti-infantry and the Haulers the anti-tank.

 

Problem is, this army probably doesn't have room for the likes of Terminators or Mortarion (outside of perhaps one small unit of Blight Lords to Melta something with a drop?).

 

Would probably work nicely with a Prince and Drones as the fast section of the army or Crawlers for more firepower.

 

Not sure where Poxwalkers fit into this either, probably as a wave in front of your Haulers/ Plagues to screen them with Typhus?

Edited January 4, 2018 by Charlo

[BitsHammer]

I've been toying with a list and it's basically three different groups: a grinding advance, a rear support line and Morty. Ignoring Morty (whom I'm honestly just looking to put into a list for the sake of having a reason to get him) the army is basically split between a rear support line and a grinding advance.

 

For the grinding advance we've got Typhus and a Plaguecaster, Tallyman, a massive unit of Cultists and a unit of Poxwalkers and a unit of Blighthaulers. Depending on points I'd consider a Plague Medic to help make more DRs, but the core is there.

 

Cultists screen the whole thing as you move up (throw Dead Walk Again on the Poxwalkers to turn dead Cultists into Poxwalkers on the way making the Poxwalkers progressively more dangerous as the whole thing grinds up the board, and a Cloud of Flies if you feel like you might see a gunline aimed at the Walkers). Haulers give cover to everything (wrap Cultists around the front, and Poxwalkers around the back, especially when paired with Cloud of Flies as if all the Cultists go down then the Haulers are the closest models left). Tallyman's ~16.7% of giving back CP means throwing out 1CP stratagems isn't a complete loss of points as well.

 

The Haulers can help soften harder targets while the army moves up and since Cultists are Death Guard they can walk and shoot Heavy Stubbers meaning you can put those to a use early on. With Psychic powers the Cultists or Poxwalkers can get +1T to help them survive more shooting (+1S as well) and recycling 4 point models into 6 point models is always useful. And if your opponent avoids that mess just to keep from buffing your Poxwalkers then the CP is still well spent since it deters their guns from the horde.

 

Plaguecaster can help throw around mortal wounds or additional buffs (-1 to hit for example) to support the army and once the Poxwalkers get stuck in, while a Plague Medic helps them make more of their DR saves.

 

Rearline support in this list is a combination of small Death Guard squads (with Blight Launchers and Combi-plasma as their focus is more on static defense, but if you face a more aggressive meta consider swapping bolters for Scourges and more melee focused builds to help drag your opponent down in combat) and Crawlers with Entropy Cannons. This helps support the grinding advance of the Poxwalkers and additionally force the opponent to deal with reasonable sized threats and not just focus on trying to remove the advancing horde off the board.

 

And if you want the ultimate Distraction Carnifex throw Morty on the board and force your opponent to deal with him first while everything else follows behind. Morty benefits from both the +1T/S powers and the -1 to hit when doing this (and the latter can keep people from Overcharging Plasma since they'll explode more often), but really anything that is in your opponent's face (Drones, Deep Striking Terminators) can force this reaction if they hit the right parts of the army.

 

Basically I feel like threat saturation is important to prevent just having anything that looks important outright sterilized off the board, and stacking benefits through Auras (always take the helm on your auras. Take it on the medic to give him a 6" bubble which can help everything better, or if you only take Tallyman take it on him since he makes your melee better).

 

Taking back board elements prevents you from putting all your points into a single tactic while helping support the forward elements.

 

If you're running daemons to support everything get them from the Daemon Codex and run them as an auxillia detachment since the Tally is useful for your Daemon Engines (mostly the Haulers, Crawlers, Drones but the Defiler won't hate it either) and it won't take away your Death Guard bonuses for being Battleforged. Summoning basically just isn't worth it if you're looking to support your list with Daemons, but the Daemons are definitely worth considering since the Flies add additional fast elements and the daemons themselves are reasonably cheap and reasonable footslogging elements.

[Prot]

Some really good thoughts there. A lot of them are exactly what I was thinking... and using to a degree.

 

I've gone down to one Plague Crawler. I've cut my Daemon Prince in favour of a Termie Lord just because I want the re-roll of 1's and the option to have all the plague weapons re-rolling to wound.

 

I've got some fun elements too... the Fugaris helm on the Plague Surgeon, etc, etc.

 

Basically I have it designed as a clump around the Blight haulers, with Typhus and Poxwalkers in the rear. As you mention the Dead Walk Again is great for this in conjunction with Cloud of Flies.

 

I did get hammered in one game, and won another one quite convincingly (the loss was against Astra).

[BitsHammer]

Astra Militarium are definitely in a strong spot at the moment and it does make it a bit of a challenge to take them on right now.

 

Anti-horde-wise, I'd almost say to run two large cultist squads as a wall in front of the Poxwalkers so that even if they don't get the Hauler's cover benefit they still feed the Poxwalkers while providing some shooting (walking with Heavy Stubbers that don't suffer from walking and shooting is nice). Basically fight a horde with a horde that feeds another horde?

 

Drones with Plague Spitters in a nice group do look good for helping thin units (6d6 shots that auto-hit being shot into a horde can definitely do some damage after all) and they can force some firepower to be forced to split off to focus onto them instead all of it being aimed at your Poxstar.

 

Deepstriking Terminators can work as well. Basically I think for any list you need to throw something in the opponent's face so they can't focus on the Poxstar alone while you soften up those harder chunks of their army so you make the slower parts of your army cross the board in more safety.

 

That said, deployment, board type and a lot of things can impact how to get the best out of your list, but basically I think of it working like grinding gears that trap the opponent between the teeth and drag them down that way. Local meta can definitely change how that works, but I definitely feel that at mininmum you need fast threat that puts pressure on turn one while the slower Poxstar moves up to grind down the rest of the opponent's army later in the game.

[BitsHammer]

Thinking more on the Poxstar: bringing a bell might help. With Poxwalkers and Typhus being M4" and Typhus moving half distance when advancing the re-roll on advances might be what the unit needs to not take four turns to reach the opponent.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Wait. Do people usually not put blightbringers into their lists? He works so well to let deathguard advance at speed, as the average is something like 4.4 for 2d6 pick the highest. That's 8" on poxwalkers and 9" on plaguemarines; your guys are as fast as hormagaunts!

[Prot]

Funny you say this, I just tweaked the list to add a Blight Bringer. I always had Termies in it.... I'll see what I can come up with.

[BitsHammer]

Wait. Do people usually not put blightbringers into their lists? He works so well to let deathguard advance at speed, as the average is something like 4.4 for 2d6 pick the highest. That's 8" on poxwalkers and 9" on plaguemarines; your guys are as fast as hormagaunts!

I haven't seen him crop up in many battle reports, but then again the internet is a funny place like that. I just thought since I hadn't mentioned him in my initial Poxstar posts.

[Prot]

Well it be fair he can be a fickle fellow. I puked him out of my lists for quite a while. I really didn’t miss him. I actually have this habit over the past several games of rolling 2 dice ( 1 at a time) just to see if he’s worth it. Honestly I don’t rate him that high... except in this instance where I have everything pretty much banking on keeping up toBlight Haulers.

 

I actually think a Surgeon is better for a massed infantry list, or even a Foul Blightspawn. ( I’ve had some crazy moments with his abilities though, and his sewer cannon).

[BitsHammer]

Yeah, the sewer cannon looks both hilarious and deadly.

The more I look the more I want to argue that this book was written to be a foot list and then someone pointed out that they couldn't just not include Rhinos and Land Raiders since people already have them in their DG armies. Basically everything seems to exist solely to support our grinding up the board (which is VERY thematic but does rather gimp some of the support they could be providing).

Basically I feel like we have tools to make foot work, but if we were to go mech it'd be a lot less effective.

That said I find it harder to not want to put just about everything into a list (save for maybe the Hellbrute since the Hauler is a much more adorable version of a melta/missile Brute with more synergy for only a handful more points).

Anyone not really finding the LoC that effective as a footslogger? I mean compared Typhus (who is only a handful of points over a Plaguereaper LoC) who gives Poxwalkers a solid buff and has all the benefits of a LoC, why take him to wander up the board escorting anything?

That said, dropping him in with Termis and Deathshroud in the opponent's backline looks pretty fun as a way to force some reactions.

[Prot]

I haven't used a LoC since the Dark Imperium set days.... I always use Typhus, and I'm just adding a simple Termie Chaos Lord to drop in with Plasma Cataphractii.... for overcharge, and the warlord trait (forget the name... re-roll all Plague Weapons)

 

Funny thing I just did... I was waiting for someone to get back to me, I had youtube running, and picked up two dice... for 20 minutes I rolled 2 dice, one after the other (never at the same time).

 

I counted very, very few times where the second dice amounted to more than an inch 'bonus' advance.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The LoC is a dud through and through, the aura is so bad that theres no point in taking one for its innate abilities....compared to a lord of Chaos lol.

 

As for the Blight bringer, the average on 2d6 picking the highest is 4.47, while the average on 1d6 is 3.5. Theres a 20.5% increase with only 1" difference.

 

That might not seem like a whole lot, but the medic in comparison gives a 5.4% increase in DR saves. You get 4 times the amount of increased efficacy with the blightbringer, with movement being something the army is weak in and survivability not.

 

Blightbringer also applies to vehicles, things like bloat drones that love to advance.

 

Idk guys, that's the math, imo higher movement that synergizes with the trait is better than passing an extra save passed every twenty rolls.

[BitsHammer]

I think the lack of shooting hurts the LoC. He's basically just too barebones. He needs more wargear options and likely needs some real options to see real use in most lists. I want to like him, I really do, but he just feels like he's lacking too much.

 

At least the Plaguecaster is good outside of Typhus. I'm not really into the other two options as much since they lack the rules that really make DG stand out from basic CSM.

[Prot]

What do you mean by other two? A Daemon Prince and the Termie Lord?

 

I think those are good DG options. The Termie Lord can take a Plague blade, and a Combi weapon for a great cheap option allowing you to reroll 1’s.

 

The LoC is a fantastic model but just too lethargic on the table.

 

I’m wondering if Lord Felthius might be a good Termie Lord.

[DuskRaider]

I swear by my Blightbringers, I never take Poxwalkers without a Blightbringer herding them around. He's gotten them into combat by the second turn with his re-roll ability and a lot of people overlook that his Bell, even though it's only S-User, is still D2. I'm also considering taking one to follow the Plague Marines behind the Blight Haulers as well to help them keep up with the faster Daemon Engines. 

 

I also wouldn't say the LoC is completely useless, but his utility is extremely hindered by the fact that he only has a CC weapon, a point that I've been bringing up since the DI box was released. I don't even mind his aura ability, he works good with either Blightlords picking up the ranged slack or with Deathshroud to form a hard-hitting CC unit. Overall though, GW definitely dropped the ball and I'm hoping we'll see at least something from FW to pick up the slack (though I doubt it). 

[BitsHammer]

By other two I was thinking of the Chaos Lord and Sorceror who don't really fill me with any sort of warm fuzzy feelings.

 

I forgot the DP (who is definitely a better choice than the LoC all around) and the Termi lord is pretty decent.

[TURBULENCE]

I don't ever go to a game without a blightbringer. My actual results seen to be different from your roll tests, he almost always had my walkers moving an average 10 a turn

[Noeh]

I just...am I the only one who just brings a Blightbringer AND the Surgeon? They don't cost that many points and having poxwalkers reroll DR 1s kept at least 10 of them alive over the course of the game. He ended up camping a point with a small group and did some alright damage.

[BitsHammer]

So something I was looking at was how to handle hordes outside of throwing Morty at them. While Poxwalkers can help grind things down when they get there throwing them at a horde of Hormagaunts or Orks who haven't been thinned a bit earlier wouldn't go well.

 

 

So I had to look around the codex and in the end I had to look at the Drones. 2d6 autohits from the default weapon definitely help (6d6 can make people cry if used right), but I'd consider the fleshmower as well. First off it's additional attacks so you'll still have to use the probe for your base attacks which is alright, but the best thing is that at full wounds you're dropping 10 attacks per drone into a unit. Being a model fly you can disengage and charge again, or charge something else, and it's tough enough to weather overwatch fairly well.

 

I'd consider the drones in a unit of three with two that have mowers and one with the spitter, or two with spitters and one with a mower (depending on if you're going to try and use them to thin units more in the shooting or melee phase). Take wounds on the mowers last either way and enjoy leapfrogging around the backline with a bunch of dice to thin out horde units so your other parts of the army can effectively tackle what's left of the units.

 

Thinking of spitters, for those of us who looking at taking the Plaguecrawler I'd have to say the choice between Entropy Cannons and Plaguespitters comes down to how aggressive you want to be (they're fairly similar in points so the choice of wargear if playing matched play isn't that huge). Plaguespitters threaten anyone who wants to charge you inside 9" forcing longer charges for people who drop into your backline and like to punch tanks, while the Entropy Cannons are better for distant threats like tanks and big things. Basically run them based on if you're playing more defensively or if you're trying to break armor and kill big things. The difference between Heavy Slugger and Volley Gun comes down to your meta: if you're dealing with T5 or low number saves a lot (TEQ basically), consider the Volley Gun to get wounds through more often, while the Slugger is better for dealing with lower toughnesses and weaker saves (GEQ).

 

I have considered two uses for the Lord of Contagion in a foot list: dropping him into the backlines of your opponent to try and get a Nurgle's Rot off on their lines, and to drop in and use him to summon daemons. He's more resiliant than a Terminator Lord (and he might be cheaper, I don't have the book handy so I'll have to go back and look later) or a Terminator Sorceror and can drop into the back lines on turn 1 before summoning something like a unit of Plaguebearers to support him while also drastically increasing how much stuff your opponent has to deal with in the backlines (dropping Terminators back there to help crack tanks or kill key units while the rest of your army grinds forward is a good plan as well)

[SkimaskMohawk]

Poxwalkers annihilate gaunts and boys, maybe I'm just assuming typhus is lurking around though since that's the only way they're worth taking. Their low save makes them easy prey to the PW and usually generate as many new models as they killed.

 

Mower isn't restricted to the bonus attacks, you can choose whichever weapon you want to attack with; you simply get an additional 6 attacks that have to be with it.

 

LoC can't be in any 7" aura range off the deepstrike, and also can't summon that turn since deepstriking counts as moving and you have to be stationary

[BitsHammer]

I guess what I was looking at was not throwing a unit of Poxes into a full unit of boys or Hormagaunts (and definitely not unit a full up unit of Stealers or Berserkers) due to them being better at melee (in terms of damage output) than the Poxwalkers are. In melee the Walkers are saving 1/3 of their wounds, but without something to buff them (Typhus, psychic powers, both) they lack the damage output to really drag a unit down. Plus with their speed unless you've tied a horde up with something earlier they're more likely to be charged which means they'll lose some of their combat strength before they can really put the squeeze on things. Softening up targets before feeding them to your melee units (this really goes for all of the melee troops options honestly) is just good sense as it can really swing the way a fight goes.

 

Regarding the mower, then I can't see why you're forced to take the probe unless the mower is supposed to be used into addition to it. The probe is just not good enough on it's own to be used over the mower. Then again I guess I'm just thinking of some other weapons that crop up and are done exclusively in addition to whatever other attacks you make (tail biomorphs on Nids for example) and that's why I approached it that way.

 

Speaking of additional attacks, a Flail of Corruption turns each attack a model makes into D3 attacks, does this stack with bonus attacks generated from Death to the False Emperor? Because if so then it may be the best weapon ever due to the number of dice you could throw from a single model.

 

Regarding the LoC: good point about the summoning, and that does make him less good since you can't do a summoning drop with him, but since he's durable he's likely to live long enough to do it the next turn.

 

And Nurgle's Rot wasn't something I was thinking we'd do that turn, just something you could use him for since he's got a shot at least of getting stuck in and with gunline armies (aka the most common army type) that'd lead to him being in range of a number of units pretty easily to use it on your next turn. Basically I was just saying he could use it effectively with a good deep strike more than any sort of expectation of being able to use it consistently or on the drop.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The particular question of PW worth cropped up at release of the codex, a lot of people felt that they were outstatted by plaguebearers for annoying blob factor, or overcosted compared to cultists. Basically the conclusion is that they're only worth taking of you have Typhus for his dramatic buff, and since typhus is so good he should almost always be taken. Usually most people assume the improved statline when talking about them since there's no point otherwise.

 

Nid tail weapons have specific wording on their use that no other weapon has. The probe stays because all their weapons replace their arm weapons and not the face one.

[BitsHammer]

I'd argue that PW do have a place with a cultist battery feeding them, even without Typhus, but Typhus potentially boosting a unit to S/T6 is just FAR better than the points we pay for the unit. That said, if you need a fearless unit to hold an objective in the back line, Walkers will hold down to the last man unlike daemons or cultists.

 

And honestly Typhus' model is so good that even if I wasn't running him I'd use him as a LoC with manreaper.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Erm, for backfield scoring without support, you're paying a lot for fearless. Same amount of points gets you higher toughness and double the saves, a large unit gets -1 to be hit. PB are quite a lot better in terms of being left on their own and being resilient and you need to kill 5 to lose one to morale on average.