The Sableclaw Talon Master 1 - 2

[SnakeChisler]

Well tried the Talon Master this week in a couple of games and just thought I'd put out a couple of things out there that came up.

 

Ran them basically as a pair and thier flexibility is pretty outstanding.

 

Had them beat away at the usual assault cannon targets before assaulting a Flyer, my opponent was taken aback by the speed + the output damage the pair could do in combat (Heavenfall blade). They crunched a T6 flyer on 10 wounds left in 1 round of combat.

 

He was also getting cheesed off with not being able to target them with his gunline due to thier character status.

 

Anyone else tried running them yet?

Edited January 5, 2018 by SnakeChisler

[breng77]

Yup won a tournament last weekend running Sammi and a talonmaster they are quite good, but they were super low priority for most opponents perhaps because their character status.

[SnakeChisler]

Yup won a tournament last weekend running Sammi and a talonmaster they are quite good, but they were super low priority for most opponents perhaps because their character status.

What was your list?

[breng77]

It is posted in the list section in more detail but in short

1500 points

Outrider

Sammi

Talon master

5 bikes with 2 plasma and combi-plasma

2x3 plasma inceptors

 

Battalion -white scars

Captain-jump pack

Lieutenant jump pack

9 scout bikes

3x5 scouts

[Madmonkeyman]

Sam an his tallon masters are amazing. Put a -2 to hit flyers or speed of the raven a dark tallon into their lines so they can't target them!

[breng77]

The issue with flyers as blockers is they don't work well against mobile armies.  I have been using hidden scouts to block for them, since out of LOS units count for character targeting now so scouts behind a wall prevent shooting at the speeders.  Also use bikes and such as the frontline so my opponent needs to dig through those models too.  I was considering using a drop pod, but could never really come up with something good and cheap to throw inside, and the pod itself was expensive.  But no one wants to waste shots at a pod when it is the closest model.

[Madmonkeyman]

Agreed much harder to prevent them getting targeted with super mobile armies. Still there aren't that many of them. Still if they do get through you just "only in death just duty end " to shoot the hell out of them to make them pay for it

[Interrogator Stobz]

How about half a dozen HB/AC speeders as blockers, they can use the bubbles too. Sometimes things die, make the other guy do more first.

[breng77]

I'm not sold in speeders for their cost, though they do get full benefits from Sammi and the talonmaster so it might work.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Yeah, their cost is too high, I have run a trio of MM TML ones with Sammy to good effect in quite a few games, but the range risk of AC HB speeders limits their survival big time.

[breng77]

My big issue with speeders is that they cost about as much as a razorback and are worse in almost every way. Same comparing them to bikes. 4 bikes are about the same cost and are more durable and similar on offense (16 s4 shots vs 9 S5/6). Or 3 bikes with special weapons etc. speeders need to be about 50 -70 points fully armed.

[ValourousHeart]

You are going to have to explain how a 1 shot 24 inch range weapon doesn’t have a range risk, but a 6 shot 24 inch range weapon does.

 

So far the only aspect about speeders that gives me concern is morale tests. Sure we have ATSKNF and Grim Resolve, but any losses are painful.

 

I’ve got in a couple of games with my Talonmaster, and I’ve not been disappointed yet.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Maybe I don't always shoot the MM, it depends on the situation; rerolls on the 6 TML shots have been quite good for me, not top tier, but quite good.

 

And my two posts above were about different things, the point is when used as blockers they will die easily, the characters will therefore be blocked but not for long.

Typhoon speeders on the other hand don't have the same range risk, coz 48". With them I use Sammy on Corvex for the PC, it meshes much better than Sableclaw with them for me.

 

Obviously Sableclaw is the option du-jour with the Talon Masters.

 

Your mileage may vary, please feel free to share your experiences.

 

:D

Stobz

[Madmonkeyman]

They are amazing ! 18 shots each. Way more durable than people think and ace in combat. Only issue is moving and shooting -1 to hit targets as they have heavy weapons. One must have the heaven fall blade.

[Madmonkeyman]

If they are dying quickly you have done something wrong. Work best against gun lines, harder against ultra mobile armies but still very good.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I’m not sure if I was clear enough, I meant my normal tornado speeders die quickly, but I have yet to use them as blockers with Sableclaw and Talon Masters.

Anyone want to have a go snd share?

[Madmonkeyman]

Don't think they are the best blockers. Bit too squishy and expensive. Better to use something they can't see. Such as scouts out of line of site . Or something they find hard to kill. Dark tallon at -2 to hit or speed of the raven it for a 4++.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Could always use deep strike Deathwing as ‘blockers’ put a whole army in their face in one turn.

A bit all or nothing but kind of fluffy.

[ValourousHeart]

I’m not sure if I was clear enough, I meant my normal tornado speeders die quickly, but I have yet to use them as blockers with Sableclaw and Talon Masters.

Anyone want to have a go snd share?

 

I always love to share.

This is the current list I'm playing

 

Sableclaw

Talonmaster - toss up between the Heavenfall Blade and Shroud of Heroes.

Darkshroud - AC

Speeder Squadron 1 - 2 HB/AC, 1 MM/AC, and 1 MM/HF

Speeder Squadron 2 - 2 HB/AC, 1 MM/AC, and 1 MM/HF

Speeder Squadron 3 - 4 HB/TML

 

IMO it is a fun list to play.

It has enough shooting to give pause to most armies.

If facing an army that is geared to take on marines, the extra T and the fact that each model has 6+ wounds means that they will not reduce your shooting capability as efficiently as they would a more traditional marine army.

 

It has also been my experience that armies I face tend to run out of steam when trying to shoot down 1 squad, and if they want to keep their shooting optimal they have to spread out their shooting to more of my squads.

Meaning that dealing anything less than 6 wounds to a speeder squadron is effectively no damage at all, and damage over 6 that doesn't get to 12 is also wasted.

 

So while I do lose some speeders, my opponents tend to kill my speeders at a slower rate than I kill their squads.

I just make it a game of attrition that works in my favor.

[Helycon]

I still feel assault cannons on DS is a waste. You're going to be jinking most sense for the time and your opponent will make it a priority to kill. It won't get a lot of shots.

[Madmonkeyman]

Why do you run them in squadrons ?

[Madmonkeyman]

Do you speed of the raven them for the 4++? Otherwise isnt msu better than the extra movement

[ValourousHeart]

The list is 99 power and 1930-40 points, and there is nothing I can add for 1 power and ~100 points.

So I had the points for the AC on the DS, without having to sacrifice anything.

 

Yes the DS advances every round, and if needed I can burn a CP to have it shoot if needed.

 

If there was some other unit I could take instead of the AC on the DS I would.

 

Squadrons this edition are more powerful for speeders than in previous editions, mostly because of overwatch, and the aura effects.

 

Additionally the grav-upwash rule is effectively rolling a 4 on your advance roll and spending the CP to shoot without having to do either.

The only downside is that you don’t get to Jink.

But you still could advance and spend the CP if you needed extra speed.

 

I like the squadrons because it makes them more threatening to flank units because of their cc capability.

4-5 speeders can deal with weak units like cultists that weren’t wiped out with shooting to get a bit extra movement.

[Helycon]

An attack bike with a heavy bolter is 45 points. It also has the twin bolters as well. You could go for a multi melta bike too, for 62 points if you please.

[SnakeChisler]

The list is 99 power and 1930-40 points, and there is nothing I can add for 1 power and ~100 points.

So I had the points for the AC on the DS, without having to sacrifice anything.

 

Yes the DS advances every round, and if needed I can burn a CP to have it shoot if needed.

 

If there was some other unit I could take instead of the AC on the DS I would.

 

Squadrons this edition are more powerful for speeders than in previous editions, mostly because of overwatch, and the aura effects.

 

Additionally the grav-upwash rule is effectively rolling a 4 on your advance roll and spending the CP to shoot without having to do either.

The only downside is that you don’t get to Jink.

But you still could advance and spend the CP if you needed extra speed.

 

I like the squadrons because it makes them more threatening to flank units because of their cc capability.

4-5 speeders can deal with weak units like cultists that weren’t wiped out with shooting to get a bit extra movement.

You've got to be the only person I know plays power levels

 

Even my club Brigade list I've been running comes in at 116, the power levels are complete junk

ex-

Ezekiel = power level 7

Base Librarian = Power Level 8

Razorback (with any upgrade) = power level 5

 

mmmm wonder how many razors I'd field if i was forced to use power levels ;)