Deep Striking Magnus and Ahriman

[Prot]

I just had this confirmed on Warhammer TV. Magnus... or any CSM daemon unit for that matter, can Deep Strike with the new Strategem.

 

The Changeling got nerfed, so instead you'll be looking at spending 2 CP to drop him in with part of Daemon detachment. (this would also include Ahriman on a Disk since he gains "daemon" keyword).

[Archaeinox]

rain drop

 

drop top

 

deep strikin magnus for the Prot Prot

[Kilofix]

I am sooo going to make it rain Blight Drones.

[MyD4rkPassenger]

This changes everything for my TS and DG, I am so excited.

[Prot]

Yes.. barring an FAQ it's definitely going to happen... Hello Astra Gunlines... say hello to my not-so-little friends.

[Raven1]

I think the wonder twins Magtarion will wreck pretty hard.

[Sonoftherubric21]

huh..........this is quite a nice added bonus.....

 

I still think Changeling is a good idea with a line of horrors and Tzeentch Daemon Engines. 

 

I can see that becoming a standard for us when we need these strategems and bodies as well as command points, changeling + generic horror HQ (name escapes me ATM) with blues/brims filling out 3 troop slots.  giving +3 command points, bonus casting that benefits a daemon engine heavy thousand sons list such as mine, and the new strategems working well all around as well as spell access. 

Seems like this support is rather nice and something the 1K sons needs.  I doubt we will "need" it come the codex, but options are *always* a good thing especially when fluff accurate which this certainly is.

[Azekai]

I don't know precisely how to react to this piece of information. I think lascannons and Russ tanks are a bit nuts at the moment, but I am not sure the answer is to plop a daemonic Lord of War 9.1" inches away from them and tear them a new orifice or seven. It seems like such a non-decision.

Part of the thing that bores me is that the 'correct' thing to do should not be correct all the time, perhaps not even most of the time. If the best choice you can make with Magnus or Mortarion is to deepstrike them, I think the game gets a bit more shallow as a result.

Not that I have a better suggestion, mind you, I just doubt I would like to be on the receiving end of such a warp-in.

[Raven1]

It depends on the setting and opponent. I would never alpha strike two daemon primarchs against most opponents, but against the guy at my FLGS store who deepstrikes dual kastelan robots with full phosphor backed by Cawl in sub 1500 point games. Yeah all day because he deserves it. Or at a tournament sure, I'm not about fluff then I'm about efficiently winning.

[Khalan]

IG and Eldar + SM can nuke a primarch in 1 turn easily, even if he DOES DS he will at most kill a unit of chaff/wrap if you are doing it right. It is very easy to counter this, Magnus already can move 36" in a turn so it is not like you couldnt do this normally.

 

If you haven't learned to bring chaff to bubble wrap/prevent deepstrikes, then you deserve to lose at this point. This is a big part of 8th.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Khalan

[Grendaxe]

Imho dropping a primarch at 9 inches isn't THE biggest concern i think. The 9'' charge is still pretty difficult without any help(aside from a dice reroll). And if you used you screen properly magnus/mort is going to be out in the open for everyone to shoot.

 

I think the main problem is that magnus has the warptime power. Which allows him to move 16'' after his deepstrike. Instantly allowing him to dive the backline.

 

I'm guessing if they keep the deepstriking primarchs in the game, Magnus is going to lose access to warptime.

All in all still kind of strange because it basically forces you to run a daemon detachment when using magnus or mortarions.

[BoomWolf]

Well, Ahriman is JUST on the limit between the 1cp to 2, so I might keep this as a tool in my arsenal, but more often than not I'd see myself just deploying.

 

On another nice note, we can put locus of conquration on ahriman/magnus as well, if we want to double down at "we ARE casting them spells" (and avoid some nasty perils)

 

I'd say 2CP for rerolls beats 1CP for +2 to a single spell if you got 2 spells being cast, and these guys cast 3 spells each. also, it does not have the limit of being next to other TS psykers (so it still works when isolated, or if you run along some daemon engines, non-TS daemons or whatnot)

Heck, even if you ARE next to some rubric/scarab squads, this is just superior. not only you got our high priority psyker casting hot, we also got rerolls that turn the minor smites the rubrics got worth casting (as perils chances are low, and as long the beta rules don't kick in-its an easy cast)

 

Goodby Cabalistic Focus, was nice knowing you.

 

The real question is, where do we get all them CPs to fuel everything?

When our codex drops, you can bet VotLW is going to be there, bringing another CP sink.

[Heliomanes]

Well, this is going to be fun. Magnus deep striking with 2 scarab squads. With the spell that gives rerolls, the stratagem that rerolls psychic tests AND the +1 to cast we can be pretty sure to get Magnus' maximum smite off reliably. The thing is, due to this massive support battery we have a lot of redundancy - meaning that the opponent will have to shut down a lot of surrounding factors to turn off this advantage on our part. Instead of just killing the one caster with access to the reroll spell, or make us spend all our command points early.

My guess is that the double batallion + Magnus will be our bread and butter. With the ITC rules we are bound to max 3 detachments if memory serves, and we really need both the CP and the points to use Magnus and some of our nastier tricks.

So the question is - which parts of these batallions are more or less mandatory, and which are more flexible? And what could we fill in the "optional" bits of this setup with?

The daemon detachment seems simple enough, at least the basic part. We need brimstones to fill out the troop slots cheaply, and maybe you'll splurge on a big squad of pink horrors to get their brand new firepower. Hqs seem allright too. Heralds are good casters and buffers, and the chariots seem interesting as they'll be able to catch up with our deep strikers and buff them,  have better attacks than before, and they retain their character status. Not sure about the Changeling anymore, but the Scribes seem cheap and fun.
As for the optional bit: pink horrors and flamers look like really good deep strike bombs, that we are able to support with some synergy from heralds, spells and stratagems. 9 DSing flamers with the +1 to wound spell AND the tzeentch warlord trait which allows you to reroll 1s to wound from shooting seem... fun. Exalted flamers are also worth a shout out due to their buffed firepower adding some sorely needed anti tank fairly cheap.

Less sure of the Ksons detachment though. All of this is wild speculation though, as we don't have access to the new codex yet. Still, it seems likely that we'll be able to get a cheaper secondary HQ from the Shaman. Question is: what do we do about the troops? Cultists are obviously the cheapest choice. Tzaangors are better and will be likely to have better synergy. Perhaps 2x10 cultists and 1x30 tzaangors, as a kind of compromise, not unlike the 2x10 brimstone horrors and 20/30x pink horrors mix that the daemons can bring?
Again, I'm not sure. Really excited by all of this though. Having fun speculating and theorizing.

[yergerjo]

BUT

 

What about the Rubrics! I want Thousand Sons in my Thousand Sons army!

[Jivanmukta]

BUT

 

What about the Rubrics! I want Thousand Sons in my Thousand Sons army!

 

You'll take your Codex: Tzaangors and like it! (I kid....hopefully).

[Archaeinox]

Many times when I spend the +2 to cast, it doesnt matter.

 

Example: Welp, you rolled double 6s. At least you have a 15!

[Skallagoose]

just saying... you could also drop down a unit of flamers... or a unit of possessed

[Sonoftherubric21]

Many times when I spend the +2 to cast, it doesnt matter.

 

Example: Welp, you rolled double 6s. At least you have a 15!

 

The only time I personally use the "+2 to cast" is on a spell costing Warp charge 8 (or more) as a rule of thumb, statistically a 5/6 going off is quite likely barring Tzeentch hating you and everything about you it should work most of the time. (yay probability and its un-intuitive nature!) 

 

Edit; 7 falls into the in between of basically slightly higher then 50% chance, its a debate to cast for that.  

Edited January 7, 2018 by Sonoftherubric21

[BoomWolf]

 

Many times when I spend the +2 to cast, it doesnt matter.

 

Example: Welp, you rolled double 6s. At least you have a 15!

 

The only time I personally use the "+2 to cast" is on a spell costing Warp charge 8 (or more) as a rule of thumb, statistically a 5/6 going off is quite likely barring Tzeentch hating you and everything about you it should work most of the time. (yay probability and its un-intuitive nature!) 

 

Edit; 7 falls into the in between of basically slightly higher then 50% chance, its a debate to cast for that.  

 

 

But if you are casting with magnus or ahriman on disk, its far more efficent to just use to 2CP to get rerolls on all 3 spells from the daemons stratagems.

[1000 Sons]

I hope Thousand Sons get this ability. It would be like the scene from the novel where Ahriman plants rubrics in the past to ambush an attack in the present.

[Dumah]

I hope Thousand Sons get this ability. It would be like the scene from the novel where Ahriman plants rubrics in the past to ambush an attack in the present.

 

One of my favorite bits from the trilogy! Somehow I doubt we'll see it on the tabletop however. Love to be proved wrong.

[Archaeinox]

The model of Ahriman on disc is basically the cover of Ahriman: Exiles.

 

They are paying attention to how TS operate. I suspect the codex will have multiple deployment options, if not a teleport spell. 

 

Wolves have an infiltrate........ With all the webway talk in the recent fiction it'd be silly to not give it to us.

 

Yes, I think we will be quite pleased.

[Raven1]

Ahriman has had an infiltrate granting ability before. I could see it coming back as a strategem.

[Zodd1888]

Ahriman has had an infiltrate granting ability before. I could see it coming back as a strategem.

Wouldn't be a bad WL trait either.

[Skallagoose]

The model of Ahriman on disc is basically the cover of Ahriman: Exiles.

 

They are paying attention to how TS operate. I suspect the codex will have multiple deployment options, if not a teleport spell. 

 

Wolves have an infiltrate........ With all the webway talk in the recent fiction it'd be silly to not give it to us.

 

Yes, I think we will be quite pleased.

i dont think it will be a spell. I think it will be a strategim that allows you to deploy/redeploy any unit for CPs, even if the unit is in combat.