++Take Their Skulls! Daemons of Khorne Thread++

[Biohazard]

I’m really looking forward to fielding my Daemons again, I have about 4000pts of Khorne ready to go. Just one question, does anyone know if the Unstoppable Ferocity rule stacks?

[Cheex]

I’m really looking forward to fielding my Daemons again, I have about 4000pts of Khorne ready to go. Just one question, does anyone know if the Unstoppable Ferocity rule stacks?

 

Stacks with what? It's just a modifier to the model's characteristic, so other modifiers will apply as well.

[Biohazard]

Sorry I should have read the rule better, that’ll be the insomnia. I had it in my head that rule was given by Heralds to nearby units a bit like they do in AoS with the attack activation. Didn’t realise all Khorne units have Unstoppable pretty much. My mistake.

[Commissar K.]

Well technically not all Khorne units have it but yeah most Khorne Daemon units do. However when you incorporate the giant slew of Khorne Daemonic engines then there are enough Khorne Daemons who don't ;) 

Just like AoS 40K now works with a Dataslate to Dataslate basis, there is no real overlapping rule. Keywords are a prime importance but abilities themselves should be mentioned on indeed mentioned Dataslates.
But I'm very happy you are excited again! I am too. It did postpone my Dreadclaw plans for World Eaters (simply because dropping Bloodletters is cheaper and regardless Berzerkers will be in Rhino's). But for the budget and flexability in use I think this is a massive improvement.

Having said that, I do believe that every Chaos mixed army has some serious competitive relevancy now. Wether or not you deepstrike a Lord of Skulls or 30 Bloodletters is almost less important. 8th is very soupy, for better or worse, but I think fans of Khorne Daemonkin don't care about that at all. In general I feel Chaos players don't really care about it because it's more common to see narrative of our mixed armies than seeing our Legions, daemonic or mortal, only function just by themselves.

It's a great time to play Chaos in general and I feel Khorne certainly is part of the great choices for heavy melee centric armies. 

[Commissar K.]

As a side question, is this also where we discuss mixed Khorne lists? Meaning you essentially recreate what Khorne Daemonkin intended and present a CSM/Chaos Daemons mixed army?

I looked around on some pages with the Khorne Daemonkin search and couldn't really find anything. So if we can discuss mixed lists here that would be wonderful. However I'd like to know if it's the intention.

While I was previously a bit down on Rhino Zerkers from time to time I will state that I'm comming back on that especially since we can drop giant blobs of Bloodletters again. The prime reason why I like the Rhino strategy now is because I feel it's really the only transport we need. While certainly lacking in ranged support I've always felt that our melee offense can still par with it and now even moreso because of 3d6 charges and the likes. It's Stratagem heavy but at the same time it's incredibly unlikely 30 Bloodletters will be shot away in overwatch.

Cheers,

[Khornestar]

1.) This thread was not intended as a Khorne Daemonkin thread, as that faction doesn’t exist any more and there is an existing thread.

 

2.) I’m not the forum police and I don’t own this thread, so if you want to discuss lists that contain daemons of Khorne and CSM or whatever, as long as it’s on topic I see no problem with that. It’s for everyone to enjoy/discuss. CSM unit discussion would be better on that forum, however.

 

3.) It sounds pretty likely that GW will be releasing an erratum that limits the deep strike stratagem to codex: daemons units only, which is a bit of a bummer, but oh well.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Juggernut

[MithrilForge]

1.) This thread was not intended as a Khorne Daemonkin thread, as that faction doesn’t exist any more and there is an existing thread.

 

  Wha.... ?... 

 

i wanted to start up and run a pure Khorne demons list for play with my mates !!... is this not possible with the new Dex ?....

 

Mithril  

[Khornestar]

I think you’re good, man. Khorne Daemonkin was a faction unique to 7th edition 40k that combined CSM units of Khorne and Daemons of Khorne along with the blood tithe mechanic. Much in the way Daemons or Chaos Space marines or Grey Knights are factions, Khorne Daemonkin was a faction.

 

We still have all those units, but in separate books. The faction Khorne Daemonkin no longer exists in this edition, and probably never will again. What you can do is play separate detachments of Khorne daemons and Khornate CSM and get their respective bonuses, or take a combination of both in a single detachment in a pseudo-Khorne Daemonkin style, but get none of (or far fewer) of the unique bonuses each army offers for a battle-forged detachment.

 

*edit* Oh my :cuss gods if autocorrect adds another redundant apostrophe I’m going to flush this iPad down the toilet.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Juggernut

[Panzer]

 

1.) This thread was not intended as a Khorne Daemonkin thread, as that faction doesn’t exist any more and there is an existing thread.

 

  Wha.... ?... 

 

i wanted to start up and run a pure Khorne demons list for play with my mates !!... is this not possible with the new Dex ?....

 

Mithril  

 

Daemonkin != Daemon

Khorne Daemonkin would include Khorne units from the CSM Codex as well, especially Daemon engines. While you can still do that and it indeed has some advantages, it's not a real faction anymore as with the 7th edition Khorne Daemonkin Codex.

 

So what he's saying is that this thread is for Khorne Daemons and not for a Khorne Daemon/Khorne CSM mixed army. ;)

[Stross]

I analized the current meta and...

Well, I don't know still how to use Tzeench or Nurgle daemons. But Slaanesh is good for "patient" roster, for some parking and stuff. Because you are able to reduce enemies attacks and for Genestealers, Berzerkers and others - they depends on it. So any screen can live as long as it needed, if someone will come in melee. 

As for Khorne, I can say, that Bloodletters have one of the most guarantied charge in game. Bloodthirsters are not needed. They cost too much, Swarmlord do everything better.

Skarbrand is good, because at least one squad must stuck in melee with him, so any shooty army is not able to kill him quickly. 

I don't know, why we need dogs, even when they got cheaper. 

Bloodcrushers is great, worth a try. 

But the diamond of their meta... two squads of 30 Bloodletters. For 6 CP we get 60 models, who are charging on 3D6 for just 8 and can deepstrike at any place and anytime (until the first turn) they needed. Hitting on 2+ when they 20. 

I think it is still the most powerful combination. For 1 CP we can put Herald behind. Or, of this doesn't matter, for 2 CP - Daemon Prince (who is really worth his cost now with axe or with 4++ invulnarable). 

Brutal, I must say. 

Edited January 13, 2018 by Stross

[BrassClaw]

So playing around with Battle Scribe, I have come up with this 2000 point list

 

Brigade Detachment

 

HQ

2 Bloodmasters

1 Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage

 

TROOP

3X10 Bloodletters with Icon

3X10 Bloodletters

 

ELITES

3X3 Bloodcrushers

 

FAST ATTACK

3X5 Flesh Hounds

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

2 Skull Cannons

1 Soul Grinder

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think its a good starting point. It's a list I can take apart and add my World Eaters to it or my renegades and heretics. But its super easy to fill a brigade 

[Hathor42]

I think a prince or rage thirster with the crown and the +1 attack stratagem could be fun.

The axe with the second attack profile gets so many attacks.

[Khornestar]

If it is at top tier stats (full wounds) it's a threat to anything. Such awesome opportunities. Compared to last edition, just being able to charge after a scatterless deep strike are gonna make all the difference. Instrument and 3d6" charge are icing on the cake.

[Prot]

Has anything come out of the woodwork that makes the BT of Insensate Rage a beast? Or just deep striking?

 

out of curiosity if I deep strike my BT, can he then summon a bunch of stuff?(Sorry I haven't tried this in 8th since putting KDK away).

[Panzer]

Has anything come out of the woodwork that makes the BT of Insensate Rage a beast? Or just deep striking?

 

out of curiosity if I deep strike my BT, can he then summon a bunch of stuff?(Sorry I haven't tried this in 8th since putting KDK away).

 

The Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage got an alternative attack on his weapon that allows him to make twice the amount of attacks with S:User, AP-2 D1 and the Deathbringer special rule (like all Bloodthirster) that transforms each unmodified hit roll of 6 into two hits instead of just one.

The profile seems to be the same as in the Index. So that would be 12 S7 AP-2 D1 attacks with about 2 bonus hits = 12 hits on average with the new alternative weapon profile.

The re-roll to-hit Stratagem looks okay for him but he already has WS2+ anyway and of course the fighting twice Stratagem turns any Khorne unit into a beast.

The +1S Warlord trait would turn his alternative attacks into S8 which is always nice to have and his Mighty strike weapon profile into S16 attacks which lets him wound basically anything in the game on 2+.

The Crimson Crown relic technically lets him generate more attacks on 6s to wound (and other Khorne Daemon units within 6" as well).

The Skull Reaver relic gives him a S+3 AP-4 D1d6 axe with re-roll wound rolls against TITANIC units and additional 1d3 mortal wounds on wound rolls of 6+ against any target. Not sure if that's worth it on a Bloodthirster tho...probably better on a Daemon Prince. Then again, he does have 6 Attacks at WS2+ so at least one 6+ on the to wound roll is not that unlikely.

 

 

Nothing really states that a Character can't summon anything if they arrived from reserves that turn. It only talks about not being able to do it if the Character arrived as reinforcement that turned or got summoned themselves that turn.

Maybe it's a typo tho and they meant reserves since summoned units are reinforcements so mentioning both is kind of redundant.

Edited January 15, 2018 by sfPanzer

[Khornestar]

Eh, just deep strike and re-roll charges with his Khorne locus. Not sure about summoning, if anything has changed. I think because he counts as having moved if deep striking, then he can’t summon.

[Prot]

Thanks guys.

 

Another fave of mine was the Crushers. I don’t have the codex yet but briefly can anyone tell me if they got an ability buff since it appears they cost the same?

 

At least I have lots of hounds. They seem mandatory again as a way to have deny the witch, and a bonus S and A on first round of combat.

[Panzer]

Bloodcrushers seem to be the exact same as before. And before you ask, Flesh Hounds didn't change either. :P

[THUNDERFISTS]

Hounds did get a lot cheaper though

[Prot]

Hounds did get a lot cheaper though

 

Yes they did. Plus the charge or be charged rule (if I read it right) seems to be a better 'furious charge'.

 

Man I miss KDK though. It was a blast killing stuff, or killing your own stuff for some dark reward system that really felt unique. 

 

I did an inventory of just my Khorne daemon stuff from 7th and it's depressing. I basically got into Khorne Daemons because they allowed me to play my old World Eaters army to some effect (even using Possessed!)

 

Now I see my Khorne cannons, cultists, Bloodletters (Half painted) and all those daemonic units, including the BT's.... I honestly don't know if there's enough here to justify firing it up. I'm not trying to be negative but aside from 'deep striking' what's the angle here? I tried these guys a few times in 8th (index army of course) and I got my red butt handed to me. This edition feels still very much a shooty game to me. 

[Khornestar]

I think they're all worth using, though maybe not in the most cutthroat games. Would be a shame for that perty army of yours to gather dust.

[Commissar K.]

Yeah from my perspective they are good for mono Daemob armies still. Have Fleshhounds and Cannons on the board to deepstrike Bloodletters.

 

Im very indifferent with Bloodcrushers. They are cool but due to costs attached I think cheap horde options are generally the best choice.

 

I feel most power comes from the AoS named "Bloodletter Bombs". I think that name is fitting for 40k now too.

 

Unlike AoS Im constantly forgetting we dont choose 20 or 30 here. I like the idea of 24 too, just to make sure we likely still are 20 in combat.

[Panzer]

Yeah I didn't check the point costs. ^^

[Commissar K.]

 

Hounds did get a lot cheaper though

 

Yes they did. Plus the charge or be charged rule (if I read it right) seems to be a better 'furious charge'.

 

Man I miss KDK though. It was a blast killing stuff, or killing your own stuff for some dark reward system that really felt unique. 

 

I did an inventory of just my Khorne daemon stuff from 7th and it's depressing. I basically got into Khorne Daemons because they allowed me to play my old World Eaters army to some effect (even using Possessed!)

 

Now I see my Khorne cannons, cultists, Bloodletters (Half painted) and all those daemonic units, including the BT's.... I honestly don't know if there's enough here to justify firing it up. I'm not trying to be negative but aside from 'deep striking' what's the angle here? I tried these guys a few times in 8th (index army of course) and I got my red butt handed to me. This edition feels still very much a shooty game to me. 

 

I think going mixed 'old KDK' style has some actual favours here. This is also why I asked if this topic was mend to cover this also because I do feel that mono Khorne can be played competitively IF we are talking about armies using both Daemons and Berzerkers.

 

While it's indeed a pitty that the Blood Tithe point system is gone in 40k I do think that the Stratagems work towards a larger favour. In addition I also think the combination of Khorne Daemons and World Eaters might be even more potent because if you really feel like it (now) you can deep strike a Lord of Skulls...

 

In my opinion we also don't really need much more of an angle as deep striking... I don't know if that sound sad but that's really how I feel about it. Using Berzerkers in Rhino's is a legit way to at least have 2 units "on the table". Using that set up twice and having some cultists for example in the back seems like a fine choice to begin with. 

 

On the Daemonic side I do feel a Bloodthirster can be played but generally the number of Bloodletters will matter more and because anti-tank guns are what they are a Bloodthirster is more likely to go down as formerly mentioned because he logically has a larger target on his head. 

 

Most important part to remember though is that while our tactic is one-dimensional I do think it's effective enough on paper to REALLY matter in a competitive game. The costs attached to deep striking Bloodletters just isn't that high. Factor in that we have high AP and options to double damage and you see that Bloodletters are pretty much up for smashing anything. They just don't have a great durability. Same applies for AoS too.

 

In terms of HQ relavancy we see this edition over and over again prefering it cheap. I think a Khorne Daemon Prince with Skullreaver is likely a better choice most of the time as a Bloodthirster. The Bloodthirster still hits harder but can't scoot along with a Rhino.

[Prot]

Just to keep this clean for pure Daemon players, let's move KDK conversation here: LINK