++Take Their Skulls! Daemons of Khorne Thread++

[CrystalSeer]

I would counter that on daemon princes, wings would be near mandatory, as they allow you to fly over bubble-wrap units and get past the first floor of buildings. It allows you to pick your targets.

[swordofmandulis]

Bloody Legionnaire, your post is correct as far as I can see, I am currently running a world eaters batallion and daemons super heavy Auxillary, I'm generating my warlord trait from chaos daemons on An'ggrath, I'm using the strategems and I'm accessing the trait for loci, I see no reason why I shouldn't be.

[Commissar K.]

What section is everyone looking at that I am missing? 

An Imperium Astra Militarum rules section which has nothing to do with Chaos Daemons or Chaos Space Marines for that matter :P 

 

I would counter that on daemon princes, wings would be near mandatory, as they allow you to fly over bubble-wrap units and get past the first floor of buildings. It allows you to pick your targets.

Initial thought is correct but the practice of many troops, Bloodletters, actually means that there is little to no reason to:

1. Increase the cost of said Daemon Prince by attaching wings.

2. Increase Power level of said Daemon Prince by attaching wings.

3. Increase CP cost to deep strike said Daemon Prince by attaching wings.

 

Flying over bubble-wraps is certainly an option but assaulting even the bubble-wraps really is a solid choice for Bloodletters in particular also. The fun stuff is that due to the costs attached to Bloodletters there isn't any 'wrong' target for them. There is just stuff standing in the way sometimes and then the question is how much stuff is standing in the way.

 

Lastly having wings or deep striking is no guarantee to surpass bubble-wraps anyway. This really depends on how hard your opponent committed to the idea. But the fun stuff of bubble-wrapping is that Berzerkers couldn't enjoy it more due to double Fights. Even Bloodletters (if you have the CP left) don't mind it as the unit can theoretically fight again also. The latter is just a bit of a rarity because despite critical CP increase options for Chaos a ton of it also goes to deep striking and Blood Banners.

 

Especially Blood Banners are massive boost in competitive Khorne approaches as it allows us to comfortably charge out of flamer ranges for overwatch reasons.

[CrystalSeer]

The scenario I have in mind is mainly cheap infantry blocking heavy artillery or tanks, pretty much only the guard. In that scenario, trading their cheaper troops for ours is a win, as they can simply redress their lines and get multiple rounds of shooting. Being able to move over them allows you to dictate targets, as opposed to constantly having to target things less than a 3rd of your cost.

 

I agree that the CP cost to DS is unfortunate, but you may not truly need it. Half your units half to start on the table, and with his fast move and character status, the Daemon Prince may be a really good candidate. In quite a few scenarios you're looking a a t2 charge anyway, and once you deep strike your other units, they'll be unlikely to be able to target him.

 

Really, there's pros and cons to both. What I'm trying to emphasize is that its worth having more than one tool in the toolbox. If the only thing you're relying on is an alpha strike with bloodletters, then they only have to counter you once and shoot you off the table. A 5++ will not win you an attrition battle.

[Commissar K.]

 then they only have to counter you once and shoot you off the table. A 5++ will not win you an attrition battle.

Trust me when I say there will not be much left when Bloodletters alpha strike, followed by Berzerkers. It's really easy to miss the Bloodletter's output if you havn't tested them and/or skipped on what 3d6" charges do in combination with 20 models converted into 41 S5 AP-3 attacks that also happen to deal 2 damage when you roll 6's on wounds. 

 

So no, they don't have to counter you once and shoot you off the table. They will need to process 60+ Bloodletters followed by 20+ Berzerkers. These numbers can increase, list posted elsehwere has that and DP/Khârn and 350+ points left. The latter can easily convert into another 20 Bloodletters and upgrade units to 10 Berzerkers per Rhino.

 

Adding wings to a DP is fine, but there is a limited ammount of alpha strikes even AM can handle. Spending more points into more Bloodletters askes them the questions. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Commissar K.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

Trust me when I say there will not be much left when Bloodletters alpha strike, followed by Berzerkers. It's really easy to miss the Bloodletter's output if you havn't tested them and/or skipped on what 3d6" charges do in combination with 20 models converted into 41 S5 AP-3 attacks that also happen to deal 2 damage when you roll 6's on wounds. 

 

So no, they don't have to counter you once and shoot you off the table. They will need to process 60+ Bloodletters followed by 20+ Berzerkers. These numbers can increase, list posted elsehwere has that and DP/Khârn and 350+ points left. The latter can easily convert into another 20 Bloodletters and upgrade units to 10 Berzerkers per Rhino.

 

Adding wings to a DP is fine, but there is a limited ammount of alpha strikes even AM can handle. Spending more points into more Bloodletters askes them the questions. 

 

 

And for those reasons I am starting to consider dropping the bloodthirster from my list and adding a second cheap HQ, more Bloodletters, and more Zerkers from my list. I just need to figure out a way to protect my Spartan from an Alpha Strike. I guess cultist are cheap enough that I could bubble wrap the Spartan with them and keep him out of melta and charge range. 

[Khornestar]

A couple of options come to mind that unfortunately require looking outside the army:

 

1.) Allied Alpha Legion detachment, infiltrate Cultists forward. With a large enough unit, unless they're wiped out wholesale before the deep striking unit/units arrive, they'll do their job. 

 

2.) Allied Renegades & Heretics detachment, using the redeployment of Scout Sentinels to create a bubble. Of course, if they're out in the open, they can be somewhat easily destroyed before the deep striking unit arrives, but everything's a gamble.

 

Both of these options would allow the Spartan to deploy as far forward as possible and still be bubble wrapped, in a sense. Does place it closer to the enemy's guns, but if getting in charge range ASAP is the goal, that's part of the risk!

[Commissar K.]

 

And for those reasons I am starting to consider dropping the bloodthirster from my list and adding a second cheap HQ, more Bloodletters, and more Zerkers from my list. I just need to figure out a way to protect my Spartan from an Alpha Strike. I guess cultist are cheap enough that I could bubble wrap the Spartan with them and keep him out of melta and charge range. 

 

I get that, pretty much went to the same conclusion also. As with the KDK topic though, there is one Bloodthirster I do deem a viable asset still and that's Skarbrand.

- Doesn't get weaker when damaged

- Adds even more attacks to anyone

- Still has a good chance to keep stuff stuck with him, which is very useful for the multi-charges

 

360 points is still quite something but the additional 20 points seem worth it by regular Bloodthirster comparison.... But yeah it's still cost compairing with 40+ Bloodletters... 

As for the Spartan, still love the piece but more and more cheap options have become available and as before I'm not dissapointed by Rhino's here. 

 

 

[Gederas]

So, I did my first game of pure Khorne Daemons today against my friend's Blood Angels with Guilliman. Because he left his Repulsor at our other friend's house.

 

My list was as such:

 

Battalion:

- Skarbrand - Warlord

- Bloodmaster

- Daemon Prince (Wings, Talons)

- 20 Bloodletters (Icon, Instrument)

- 20 Bloodletters (Icon, Instrument)

- 20 Bloodletters (Icon, Instrument)

- 6 Bloodcrushers (Icon, Instrument)

- Skull Cannon

- Skull Cannon

 

I ended up losing because I used Denizens of the Warp on Skarbrand and one of the Bloodletter bombs.... And then Skarbrand and the Bloodletters failed their re-rolled charges, and Skarbrand was shot off the board by Hellblasters the next turn.

 

The good news was I managed to kill his Primaris Captain (his Warlord), two squads of Intercessors and his Primaris chaplain. Then 13 Bloodletters (the squad that failed the charge) manage to bring Guilliman down to 1 wound.... And then on the next turn, Guilliman wiped them on his next fight phase. -sigh-

[Panzer]

And then Skarbrand and the Bloodletters failed their re-rolled charges, and Skarbrand was shot off the board by Hellblasters the next turn.

 

Which is more likely to happen than not and should always be expected. A 9" charge even with re-roll has less than 50% chance of succeeding.

[Khornestar]

Big risk, big rewards. Did you use the banner stratagem that allows the bloodletters to charge 3d6”? Crucial, IMO.

[Gederas]

 

And then Skarbrand and the Bloodletters failed their re-rolled charges, and Skarbrand was shot off the board by Hellblasters the next turn.

Which is more likely to happen than not and should always be expected. A 9" charge even with re-roll has less than 50% chance of succeeding.

Clearly. But my major mistake was charging Hellblasters. Rapid-Fire Plasma Incinerators are no joke.

 

Big risk, big rewards. Did you use the banner stratagem that allows the bloodletters to charge 3d6”? Crucial, IMO.

Yeah. I did. I rolled 2,2,3 for the 3d6 charge, and then all 2s on the re-roll :/

[Khornestar]

Yikes. Damn you, dice!

[Gederas]

Yikes. Damn you, dice!

Yeah....

 

But I rolled amazingly elsewhere. Like as I said, I almost one-rounded Guilliman. My opponent had to roll sixteen wounds that charge phase :lol:

 

I also was trolling him with the Invulns for most of the game, and also the Daemonic Icon. He killed 4 Bloodletters from that bomb, and during Morale, I roll a 1 and then with the d6 they all come back. So he literally did nothing to the squad :lol:

[Gederas]

Since I just got the pictures all squared away:
 

This was turn 2:

This was turn 4:

 

.... yeaaah. Things did not go my way at all.

 

 

What I learned from this:
- Don't charge Hellblasters
- Skull Cannons are awesome at softening up Primaris
- Gun-line armies are painful against Khorne Daemons

Edited March 31, 2018 by Gederas

[Cheex]

Not a lot of activity here for a while (I'm guessing people are a little down from the FAQ), so thought I'd share what I've been working on :)

 

Introducing Exsul, my counts-as Skarbrand.

 

[Khornestar]

Very cool! Crown of horns looks badass.

[Gederas]

A kitbash that was a long time coming, my as-of-yet unnamed Ex-Salamander Chaos Lord for my World Renders of Khorne (wholly inspired by Juggernaut's Skullgrinder-based conversion)

 

 

Currently unnamed, but the fluff for him is that he's NOT a World Eater, but is actually a Salamander who survived the Drop Site Massacre, went a bit mad, looped back around to sane and ended up jumping ship to Chaos as he realized humanity as the Emperor wished it was doomed. He managed to get a ship and make his way to the Eye of Terror, eventually becoming a powerful Khornate warlord. He made an alliance with the World Renders of Khorne, they supply him with slaves and salvage, his Forge ship that he commands supplies them with more weapons and armour.

 

Gameplay-wise, he's a Chaos Lord with a Combi-melta and Power Maul (Black Mace).

Edited May 22, 2018 by Gederas

[BetterOffShred]

Hey guys, so I have a ton of Khorne stuff. Just got the new book and I had a couple questions regarding some stuff. Sorry if these are dumb ;)

 

So .. skulltaker can no longer Jug up? I see he's a "Herald of khorne" but I don't see how that helps other than the 2 specific profiles for heralds of khorne. Am I missing something? I haven't played daemons in forever (any army really) so the keywords and stuff is kind of strange at first glance..

 

Another question: back when I modelled my bloodthirster the big D axe was all the rage (hurhur) but now I'm thinking the whip and one handy axe seems more optimal. Anyone care to advise? I'm pretty much never going to be a points squeezer competitive player. That being said I still like to do well ;)

 

Last dumb question for now.. I have a load of CSM and love doing daemons and marines together, other than the inclusion of daemon troops in CSM book, how does that work now? Can I just take a detachment from each ? Battleforged seems like it just specifies you have a complete detachment from the book.

 

Thanks for reading. Sorry for being ignorant, it's been a long time. Divorce ruined my income and paint brush time

-Brett

[Gederas]

Hey guys, so I have a ton of Khorne stuff. Just got the new book and I had a couple questions regarding some stuff. Sorry if these are dumb

 

So .. skulltaker can no longer Jug up? I see he's a "Herald of khorne" but I don't see how that helps other than the 2 specific profiles for heralds of khorne. Am I missing something? I haven't played daemons in forever (any army really) so the keywords and stuff is kind of strange at first glance..

 

Another question: back when I modelled my bloodthirster the big D axe was all the rage (hurhur) but now I'm thinking the whip and one handy axe seems more optimal. Anyone care to advise? I'm pretty much never going to be a points squeezer competitive player. That being said I still like to do well

 

Last dumb question for now.. I have a load of CSM and love doing daemons and marines together, other than the inclusion of daemon troops in CSM book, how does that work now? Can I just take a detachment from each ? Battleforged seems like it just specifies you have a complete detachment from the book.

 

Thanks for reading. Sorry for being ignorant, it's been a long time. Divorce ruined my income and paint brush time

-Brett

Chapterhouse Studios caused GW's new stance of "If we don't have a model for it, no rules in the codex"

 

So no Skulltaker on Juggernaut, as that never had a model.

 

Insensate Rage Bloodthirster is still amazing. Only reason why I don't have one myself is I haven't worked on my Khorne Daemons in a while, I was waiting for a Flesh Hounds/Karanak update.... So I might get one sometime early next year :lol: The other reason is price, and I'm not talking points. Bloodthirsters are EXPENSIVE for such a small model.

 

If you want both your marines and Daemons to have their specific faction traits, they have to be in a detachment made up of only things from that codex. The only caveat is Chaos Daemons that are summoned by Chaos Marines don't break battleforged. So yes, you can run a detachment of Codex: Chaos Space Marines and Codex: Chaos Daemons. It's what I usually do for my Khorne Daemonkin.

Edited December 15, 2018 by Gederas

[Gederas]

Question all for the Slaughterers in the thread. I'm thinking of expanding my Khorne Daemons a bit more.

 

As of right now I have:

• Skarbrand
• Skulltaker
• Blood Throne
• 3 Foot-Heralds
• 2 20x Squads of Bloodletters
• 6 Bloodcrushers
• Skull Cannon
• Soul Grinder

I'm pre-ordered Wrath & Rapture on Saturday, so I should be getting it this week, which means Karanak, 5 Flesh Hounds, 10 Bloodletters and 3 Bloodcrushers. I'm thinking of turning one of the Bloodcrushers into a Herald on Juggernaut and another to a Chaos Lord on Juggernaut, and I'll figure out what to do with the last one (I'm thinking a Victory Point marker? Linebreaker most likely)

 

Any recommendations? I'm thinking probably another box of Sisters of Slaughter/Wytch Aelves to fill out the other squad of Bloodletters (don't use those ones to make Bloodletters. It's 180 for a 30-Daemon unit), as the Wrath & Rapture set will help the other 20x Squad.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Gederas

[Khornestar]

Can always try a bloodthirster, though you could count skarbrand as one if you didn't want to run them at the same time or save the cash.

[Gederas]

Can always try a bloodthirster, though you could count skarbrand as one if you didn't want to run them at the same time or save the cash.

Hmm... Was thinking of getting a Bloodthirster actually. Might look into that.

 

Though my first choice would likely be the Insensate Rage Bloodthirster. Because Giant Axe :lol:

[Panzer]

I'm not a Khorne player but two more Skull Cannons seems like a good idea to me. 270p for 3d6 BS3+ S8 AP-2 D1d3 cover ignoring shots on 21 T7 Sv3+ wounds sounds more than just decent.

[Khornestar]

They fixed the weapon profile for the Gore hound’s mouthflamer (I.e. d6 shots), but didn’t fix the point value (at least not in this document):

 

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/warhammer_40000_wrath_and_rapture_denizens_of_the_warp_en-1.pdf

 

Points not updated anywhere, so it’s a 9 point flamer.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Juggernut