++Take Their Skulls! Daemons of Khorne Thread++

[Panzer]

It's something. \o/

[Khornestar]

Yeah, for sure. Potentially six times better, now. :P

[Gederas]

OH THANK KHORNE!

I'm so glad it was a "typo" :lol:

[Cheex]

Yeah. As I said in the other thread, it makes it a handy thing to buy if you have a few points left over. Considering they're a fast, melee-focused unit in a melee-focused army, 9pts for a flamer isn't too bad.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Yeah. As I said in the other thread, it makes it a handy thing to buy if you have a few points left over. Considering they're a fast, melee-focused unit in a melee-focused army, 9pts for a flamer isn't too bad.

Aaaaaand if you're running the Crimson Crown, notice that it doesn't specify Fight Phase. Gorehounds, Skull Cannons, etc. can all get extra shots on 6 to wound. :)

 

Khorne Obliterators, anyone?

[Cheex]

 

Yeah. As I said in the other thread, it makes it a handy thing to buy if you have a few points left over. Considering they're a fast, melee-focused unit in a melee-focused army, 9pts for a flamer isn't too bad.

Aaaaaand if you're running the Crimson Crown, notice that it doesn't specify Fight Phase. Gorehounds, Skull Cannons, etc. can all get extra shots on 6 to wound.

 

Khorne Obliterators, anyone?

 

 

Honestly, I'm not that excited about the Crown's shooting potential. It's one extra attack (not D6), so it's far better off being used with melee.

 

Having it near a Lord of Skulls is my only exception here, since it can put out a lot of shooting. Put the Crown on a Daemon Prince to get some sweet rerolls as well.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

Yeah. As I said in the other thread, it makes it a handy thing to buy if you have a few points left over. Considering they're a fast, melee-focused unit in a melee-focused army, 9pts for a flamer isn't too bad.

Aaaaaand if you're running the Crimson Crown, notice that it doesn't specify Fight Phase. Gorehounds, Skull Cannons, etc. can all get extra shots on 6 to wound.

 

Khorne Obliterators, anyone?

 

 

Honestly, I'm not that excited about the Crown's shooting potential. It's one extra attack (not D6), so it's far better off being used with melee.

 

Having it near a Lord of Skulls is my only exception here, since it can put out a lot of shooting. Put the Crown on a Daemon Prince to get some sweet rerolls as well.

 

One extra shot per 6 to wound can be nice on Oblits because each squad puts out 12 shots. Use 3 squads around the bearer and that can add up. You'll get 4 extra shots, most likely, and if some of those are at a good Str and AP, it's worth it. With Vets of the Long War, one squad can get extra shots on 5's. You can also fish for 6's with Daemonforge on things like Defilers and Forgefiends. Since Skull Cannons have D6 shots apiece, any extras help.

 

Then a lot of this stuff can ALSO benefit as you roll forward into melee. Oblits may not have good AP, but they'll be 3 Attacks apiece and Str 6 if you have a Herald somewhere nearby and they'll be eligible for extra hits from the Crown. Since the best bearer is usually a Prince, he'll help out with what they can't kill....and they'll get to reroll charges due to the Locus. Surrounding Daemon Engines and other Daemon units can benefit too.

 

Might be worth it to explore something like a Brazen Beasts army that can both shoot AND fight.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Question all for the Slaughterers in the thread. I'm thinking of expanding my Khorne Daemons a bit more.

 

As of right now I have:

• Skarbrand
• Skulltaker
• Blood Throne
• 3 Foot-Heralds
• 2 20x Squads of Bloodletters
• 6 Bloodcrushers
• Skull Cannon
• Soul Grinder

I'm pre-ordered Wrath & Rapture on Saturday, so I should be getting it this week, which means Karanak, 5 Flesh Hounds, 10 Bloodletters and 3 Bloodcrushers. I'm thinking of turning one of the Bloodcrushers into a Herald on Juggernaut and another to a Chaos Lord on Juggernaut, and I'll figure out what to do with the last one (I'm thinking a Victory Point marker? Linebreaker most likely)

 

Any recommendations? I'm thinking probably another box of Sisters of Slaughter/Wytch Aelves to fill out the other squad of Bloodletters (don't use those ones to make Bloodletters. It's 180 for a 30-Daemon unit), as the Wrath & Rapture set will help the other 20x Squad.

 

My Suggestion:

 

Daemon Prince with Skullreaver and wings. Eats Knights for breakfast.

 

Get a Start Collecting: Khorne Daemons. Make the Blood Throne rider into a Bloodmaster or Skullmaster and build another Skull Cannon.

 

Khorne Furies aren't that bad for a cheap, mobile swarm. Since you like the Daughters of Khaine aesthetic, build them out of mixed Bloodletter and Heartrender parts.

[Cheex]

 

 

 

Yeah. As I said in the other thread, it makes it a handy thing to buy if you have a few points left over. Considering they're a fast, melee-focused unit in a melee-focused army, 9pts for a flamer isn't too bad.

Aaaaaand if you're running the Crimson Crown, notice that it doesn't specify Fight Phase. Gorehounds, Skull Cannons, etc. can all get extra shots on 6 to wound.

 

Khorne Obliterators, anyone?

 

 

Honestly, I'm not that excited about the Crown's shooting potential. It's one extra attack (not D6), so it's far better off being used with melee.

 

Having it near a Lord of Skulls is my only exception here, since it can put out a lot of shooting. Put the Crown on a Daemon Prince to get some sweet rerolls as well.

 

One extra shot per 6 to wound can be nice on Oblits because each squad puts out 12 shots. Use 3 squads around the bearer and that can add up. You'll get 4 extra shots, most likely, and if some of those are at a good Str and AP, it's worth it. With Vets of the Long War, one squad can get extra shots on 5's. You can also fish for 6's with Daemonforge on things like Defilers and Forgefiends. Since Skull Cannons have D6 shots apiece, any extras help.

 

Then a lot of this stuff can ALSO benefit as you roll forward into melee. Oblits may not have good AP, but they'll be 3 Attacks apiece and Str 6 if you have a Herald somewhere nearby and they'll be eligible for extra hits from the Crown. Since the best bearer is usually a Prince, he'll help out with what they can't kill....and they'll get to reroll charges due to the Locus. Surrounding Daemon Engines and other Daemon units can benefit too.

 

Might be worth it to explore something like a Brazen Beasts army that can both shoot AND fight.

 

 

Yeah, I just came to the same realisation regarding Oblits and VotLW - for some reason I had it in mind that the Crown only worked on a natural 6, not a 6+. That's pretty nasty. Still not great on a Skull Cannon or Defiler.

 

Gorehounds is an interesting option, since you'll be mainly using the Crown to buff melee but the flamer-ish attacks will also benefit. Certainly worth considering.

 

 

 

Khorne Furies aren't that bad for a cheap, mobile swarm. Since you like the Daughters of Khaine aesthetic, build them out of mixed Bloodletter and Heartrender parts.

 

Actually yeah, I've been considering those as well. A melee screen for a Bloodthirster (while also making use of its Ld aura), ablative wounds for a DP, a reactive objective holder, a harrassment unit for enemies sitting in ruins, that sort of thing.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Cheex

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

Actually yeah, I've been considering those as well. A melee screen for a Bloodthirster (while also making use of its Ld aura), ablative wounds for a DP, a reactive objective holder, a harrassment unit for enemies sitting in ruins, that sort of thing.

 

 

Screen for Bloodthirster is an awesome idea. He'd make them Ld10 and then they already get a charge reroll plus the +1Str and Att on the charge. DS a Bloodmaster in there right before charging if you want them at Str 6.

 

As for Cannons and Defilers gaining from the Crown, those extra shots would be bonuses in addition to what they eventually did in melee. Speaking of the Crown in Melee, Warp Talons and Possessed can take advantage of it to wreck things. Warp Talons getting a charge reroll from a Prince is a huge help, then they get to reroll 1's to hit, reroll wounds natively, and can spend for Vets. Fish for those 6's, boys!!!

[Gederas]

Question all: Has anyone used Samus and/or Uraka the Warfiend? I'm looking at both their models on Forge World and want to know if they're actually decent, rules-wise. 'cause I've heard that some Forge World models aren't that good despite costing an arm and a leg (Legion Falchion).

 

Asking because my Forge World index collection is due in today, but I'm unsure of them because they're both roughly 100-dollar models and would like to know others' experiences with them before I pull the trigger in a month or so.

[Khornestar]

Eh, they both seem kinda lackluster to me. Especially Uraka. But no, I haven't used either in a game. 

[Gederas]

Eh, they both seem kinda lackluster to me. Especially Uraka. But no, I haven't used either in a game. 

Ah. Was asking because they're both on my "to buy" list, and I really, really like their models.

 

In other news, I was looking at getting some Furies for my Khorne Daemons down the line, but I hate the 'current' models look. I'm thinking of getting some AoS Khinerai to use as the basis, because I've made a squad of 30 'female' Bloodletters from the Wytch Aelves/Sisters of Slaughter kit and those would fit the aesthetic with those ones.

[BrassClaw]

My Bloodmaster conversion using spare bits. I might swap on the non sword hand for something else, but I'm not quite sure what. If you have any suggestions, let me know

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I was playing around with battlescribe tonight and I realized there are some nasty combinations that can be done with greater possessed, bloodmaster, and rage thirster. The rage thirster is S7 with 6A base. Unstoppable ferocity adds +1A and +1S on the charge. A Bloodmaster and greater possessed both add an additional +1S. Utilizing Sweeping blow, that is 14 S10, AP-2, attacks before the bonuses from hitting on 6's. With the mighty Strike that's 7 S20, AP-4, D6 attacks before the bonus 6's to hit. I know he's still a bit of a glass cannon, but as long as there's other units in the list that can draw fire away from him.. that's nasty amount of hurt coming out of the rage thirster. 

[Papewaio]

Unfortunately Greater Possessed only buff <LEGION> Daemons 

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Man this thread hasn't had a posting in a minute. I think we need a revival so more blood can be spilled.

Anyone looking forward to playing Khorne in 9th? I'm not sure if strikingscorpion82 is your taste for batreps, but this was an excellent game featuring a mono-khorne army vs. blood angels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow3Sbm5JyAQ

 

I have a lot of Bloodletters that need to be worked on and bout 10-20 more before I have the right number I'd like to run in my lists. Bloodletter bomb and Skarbrand looks like a pretty great combo in this batrep. I feel like having the full squad of 30 would have been very deadly. 

I'll most likely be playing more of a Khorne Daemonkin styled army than straight Khorne.. I'd really like to have 3 vindicators in a least accompanying my Daemons. Fits the theme, pretty tough vehicle, and adds some nice high strength shooting. 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Bloody Legionnaire

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I dropped my recent thoughts and results for Mono Khorne in the 9th thread for general daemons, but thus far it's been pretty grim. However, I'm looking forward to see what happens as our book rolls back around. I get the feeling it'll help us along quite a bit.

[Cheex]

Yeah, 9th didn't really do us many favours. Overwatch nerf and improved terrain are about the only good things to come out of the new edition for us; everything else is more or less where we left off in 8th.

 

That said, Crusade looks like it has some fun tricks for Khorne Daemons. Tons of the upgrades for an Exalted Bloodthirster or Daemon Prince, and you could have a bunch of characters with warlord traits to help shore up some of our weaknesses.

 

Plus, I love the idea of running a "Cultist army" to start off with, using a mix of Servants of the Abyss and normal CSM Cultists, with things like Spawn and Helbrutes in support. Their goal would be to release an Exalted Bloodthirster from imprisonment, at which point you would "reward" these loyal servants with death (by deleting them from your Order of Battle) and replacing them with Daemons...

[Bloody Legionnaire]

You guys don't think the evolving meta will be somewhat of a boost? All the reports I've read so far say the static gunline Armies that KD really struggled with last edition aren't in a good place this edition. KD can still be mobile enough to get objectives. Personally I think a combined KD/CSM a la KDK esque Army could have some advantages.

Now, I'm not implying top tier competitive. I feel like there is an extreme on B&C that unless something is top tier it's not worth talking about, and I disagree. I was pretty impressed by the battle report I posted and I'm curious to see how I can get mine to play and what combinations would be a good time to use. 

Edit: KD probably need an update on objectives. I'm thinking they need some that gives them points any time a unit is killed, friendly or enemy. It would be very 'blood for the blood god' themed. 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Bloody Legionnaire

[Cheex]

You guys don't think the evolving meta will be somewhat of a boost? All the reports I've read so far say the static gunline Armies that KD really struggled with last edition aren't in a good place this edition. KD can still be mobile enough to get objectives. Personally I think a combined KD/CSM a la KDK esque Army could have some advantages.

 

Sure, some of the changes hurt gunlines. But we still have the same problems: unit delivery, very squishy troops, big guys that are still disappointingly easy to kill. A KDK-style list doesn't help those much and reduces our starting CPs.

 

On the plus side, I do like that we no longer rely on a double-Battallion or Brigade to generate the CPs we need, so there's less of a need for Bloodletters beyond what we need for a bomb or two and some cheap objective holders.

 

I also started experimenting with Soul Grinders towards the end of 8th and was pleasantly surprised by them (flat 3 Damage on their main shooting weapon is nice), and they got a nice couple of boosts in 9th so I'm looking forward to using them a bit more as well.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Sure, the "big guys" are disappointingly easy to kill, but the ability to have a "better" bloodthirster from what PA has to offer helps at least one big guy in the list. 

How is unit delivery still an issue when you have the ability to deepstrike units in with the strat (name is escaping me right now and I don't have my book). Banner of blood is huge in getting those units into CC the turn they come in. I don't really think all units need "delivery" unless you were saying outside bloodletter bombs everything else is going to get shot before they make it across the board.. fine, I'll give you that. I hope you realize that the majority of the other factions in the game suffer the same problem. I find this to be a universal complaint and it's only because so many people think competitive play and power gaming is the only thing to be focused on in WH40k.

I think there are plenty of units in CSM that add shooting and resiliency to an army you've already recognize as "squishy" and "easy to kill."

Not that winters took a very good Blood Angels list, but I enjoyed seeing how the Khorne Daemons list played. 

[Cheex]

Sure, the "big guys" are disappointingly easy to kill, but the ability to have a "better" bloodthirster from what PA has to offer helps at least one big guy in the list.

 

For sure, no arguments there. Unfortunately, though, you either have to pick one option on your list that you think will protect it the best, or you have to trust that the dice gods will provide a good combination. Personally, I'll be rolling almost every time (unless I specifically need the Bloodthirster to deep strike).

 

How is unit delivery still an issue when you have the ability to deepstrike units in with the strat (name is escaping me right now and I don't have my book). Banner of blood is huge in getting those units into CC the turn they come in. I don't really think all units need "delivery" unless you were saying outside bloodletter bombs everything else is going to get shot before they make it across the board.. fine, I'll give you that. I hope you realize that the majority of the other factions in the game suffer the same problem. I find this to be a universal complaint and it's only because so many people think competitive play and power gaming is the only thing to be focused on in WH40k.

 

Denizens of the Warp is great, but costly in CPs when combined with Banner of Blood, and it's still very easy for a prepared opponent to put you in a very tough spot. New coherency rules will help limit screens, but smaller tables means they don't need them as much.

 

It was a bit of a simplification to say that we struggle with delivery; in reality, it's more that in my experience, Bloodletters simply aren't good enough (2A on the charge) on their own, so normally need some kind of support to make them shine. And that's what adds up. 

 

And yes, the other stuff will struggle to get up the field. In my games in 8th, anything that was deployed on the table on T1 was likely to die before doing much. 9th terrain rules may help with this, though.

 

It's not all doom and gloom, of course. Bloodcrushers are now a very good candidate for deep striking with their excellent strat from Engine War. Exalted Bloodthirsters are good fun. I'm excited to try Soul Grinders to anchor my starting force. I also kind of want to run a Bloodletter horde to see what happens.

 

I think there are plenty of units in CSM that add shooting and resiliency to an army you've already recognize as "squishy" and "easy to kill."

 

Not that winters took a very good Blood Angels list, but I enjoyed seeing how the Khorne Daemons list played.

 

Not really; my World Eaters aren't a lot less squishy, with the exception of my Red Butchers. But even then, the CP outlay of allying in a detachment makes it very hard to justify.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

The issue of unit delivery is a little more complicated than just 'we have good deepstrike so it's fine.' Firstly, the only way we get use out of bloodletters at all is through deepstrike, which is between 2 and 3 CP once you decide on the size of the unit and slap on the banner of blood. Then there's the footprint of the bloodletters when they come down, and how your opponent can fairly easily dictate where you're able to hit the table and what you're able to focus on.

 

The other issue is, all of those other armies that have slow footslogging troupes also have other units around to boost them, or special mechanics to help make them work. Genestealer Cults can put squishy but killy troupe choices into transports, or deepstrike half of their army for free. Tyranids have Genestealers for turn one charges, a couple of nasty shooting units, giant hoard blobs with leadership immunity, access to an FNP to drop on a blob, and free deepstrike. Guard have all the fire power tanks they could ever want and only use troupes as road blocks and objective holders, so they don't care if they die as they aren't the punch of the army. Khorne Daemons have no special buffs or utility tools to help get themselves out of unfavorable situations. Even our 'fight when we die' strat only works on a 4+ and costs 3 CP, which is a lot to ask of an army that drains it as quickly as ours.

 

The only truly killy units in Khorne lists are Bloodletters in large numbers, Daemon Princes, and Bloodthirsters. Everything else is either a lower bar of that, like Bloodcrushers, or exists purely for weird utility, like Hounds. And in a sort of obnoxious twist, all it takes is the army you're fighting to have a solid melee choice of their own to out punch your bloodletters in melee. For example, if you take Bloodletters against a full squad of melee Plague Marines, and hit their ranks while they have the fight last buffing character in range, or multi charge so that they have access to a 2 CP interrupt, those marines will whipe your squad and disrupt your only usable phase. If you choose not to charge and hold off a turn, but are on the board, even melee marines can pop the grenade strat with plague grenades and use the new blast rules to wipe half or more of your squad.

 

We're in an odd spot at the moment where we don't have enough killy units, the killy units we have aren't survivable enough to stay on the table, and due to the way the game mechanics work, they also can't really kill things fast enough to make a big enough dent before they go out. Sometimes that won't be the case, and through good rolling or a very good match up you can break that pattern, but boy is it tough.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I don't disagree with either of you that KD only have 3 units which are really worth it, and Marshall listed those out pretty well. 

It's interesting Marshall, that you brought up death guard. I also have a death guard collection and their is plenty of bemoaning over their Army and dealing with the hardship of delivery a massed unit of melee plague marines. 

KD lack tactical flexibility because of the units they have access to and overall theme. I get that, again.. not disagree. I've said KDK a few times and I think the connotation coming to mind is "oh, world eater zerkers, Khârn, and khornre daemon units." I'm going above and beyond that. There's a lot about CSM that aren't very good, but their armored options are not some of the bad choices. Bringing things like FW dreadnoughts and other FW units for example can offer some of the high T, high W, better SV options that KD are missing on their own... they also more often than not add the mobility. I really like the changes to vehicle movements and shooting as well as it means those anti-tank and heavily armored units that KD is missing can move up the board with the whole army and really put pressure on the opponents. Since static gunlines are going to have a harder time, I'm less intimidated by trying to get in their face. I really want to try a unit of 3 vindicators to move up the board with the deamons. Give the opponent a lot of things to consider and give them enough pressure that they end up shooting the wrong thing and hurt him for it. 

I know he's not great, but a unit of 30 bloodletters deepstriking with Skarbrand will have 90 attacks on the charge. There aren't many things that are going to stand up to that volume of S6 attacks coming at them.