Death company loadouts and faq’s

[Paladin777]

Does anyone know if there is a precident set for GW to reduce/remove an option from a data slate? More specifically, I’m looking to put together my first death company and I want to give most of them bolters and chainswords but I’m worried about the possibility of the ability to take both being removed in an errata. Any thoughts on this are appreciated.

[Space Skarks]

Bolters and chainswords will not be FAQ'd out. Bolters and power weapons were available in prior editions. Worse case is they boost pistols and you find the need to swap the bolters for bolt pistols.

[Paladin777]

Ok, thanks. I feel better about putting glue to plastic.

[Quixus]

Well the DC marine with the thunder hammer lost his ranged weapon during the rules change from 7th to 8th edition.

[Panzer]

There's no precident of GW taking away options via Errata, however they could always change the wording of how you exchange the basic loadout in a new Codex. For example Chaos Marines used to be able to have Bolter, Chainsword and a Bolt Pistol at the same time. Now they can't.

It seems GW is for some reason changing everything in a way that you can have only two weapons/weapon+shield on a model.

That being said such changes should have already happened with our Codex release. I wouldn't expect any further changes like that in our next Codex whenever that may be.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Load out wise I still advocate power fists over thunder hammers. I've found bolters are more important than straight 3 damage. The power fist is cheaper as well.

 

The thing to remember about death company is whatever you point them at is going to die, then they start taking massive casualties. It's actually very fluffy, crash them into the greatest threat, then let them die.

 

you have different options as far as how many you take 2 squads of 10 1 squad of 15 1 squad of 10 and one of 5 those are all going to be in the margin of 330-420 points.

[Paladin777]

Would you recommend either an infernus or plasma pistol on any of them? Or just bolters?

[Dont-Be-Haten]

That's to your taste. It's hard to Argue not giving a few hand flamers if you have the extra points.

 

I'd still give plasma over infernus, just because of the range. I might possibly take an infernus pistol, if I knew I'd be able to reliably shoot it in CQC.

 

The thing is, with DC you pick the highest threat target your opponent has, and crash into it. Because they are almost assuredly dying in your opponent's ensuing turn.

 

Also, I do 1 powerfist per 5 DC. So in a full squad of 15 I have 3 power fists and the rest bolters and chain swords.

 

If you wanted to splash in a plasma pistol I would probably put 1 per 7 so 2 in a 15 man squad if points allowed.

 

I would go 1 per 10 on infernus pistols.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Brother Crimson]

Would you recommend either an infernus or plasma pistol on any of them? Or just bolters?

It depends how many you run. In 5 men I think just bolter, chainsword and 1-2 power weapon is the simplest effective loadout. Don’t bother with inferno in 5 men squad, they will die before shooting it. Plasma is ok as they will shoot before charge but I find power swords to be better investment.

 

If you go for 15 maybe an few special pistols because you have better chance to stay up.

 

I know it is slightly off topic but I had better chance with inferno in sanguinary guard backed by fnp banner. These guys can actually survive some fire, dc dies to anything with ap AND small arms fire.

[Paladin777]

In response to Dont-Be-Haten, I absolutely see where you are coming from with the power fist versus thunder hammer choice. Especially on death company where they are forced to give up bolters. I think I am going to arm my five-man squad with one power fist, one power sword, and the rest with Chainswords, all of them with boltguns I think this’ll make for a relatively inexpensive (for what it is) hard-hitting unit.

[The Unseen]

Load out wise I still advocate power fists over thunder hammers. I've found bolters are more important than straight 3 damage. The power fist is cheaper as well.

Gonna have to disagree.

When you need that multi-damage, you really need it.

Nothings worse than getting a bunch of hits into a monster/character past their save, and then roll a bunch of 1-2s for damage and have the target live.

 

I'll pay the few extra points and give up a few str4 shots to guarantee that those hits are going to hurt.

It's 4 pts more, 29 to 33, which is roughly 14% more per model, for roughly 50% increase in average damage inflicted in melee, while also reducing variance. No brainer for me.

(Then again, my dice hate me when their rolling damage)

 

Look at it this way, your trying to kill a captain equivalent. So a 4++ with 5 wounds.

If 2 hammer wounds get past that invuln, the captain is almost certainly dead, even with a 6++ fnp, 3 is usually ridiculous overkill for even the toughest characters, with 6 wounds and a 5+++ fnp, like a nurgle character.

2 fist wounds on the other hand, only have a (roughly) 33% chance to knock that captain out, and even with 3 fist hits, there is a small (~15%) the captain makes it out alive.

 

Against monsters/vehicles, it's the same idea.

A dread with 8 wounds, 3 hammer wounds knock that dread out, no questions asked.

4 hits are enough to knock even something like Bjorn with his 5+++ fnp out.

You need 4 fist hits to realistically hope to kill a dread, 5-6 to make it really certain.

 

Last game, I had 2 hammer wielding DC left to swing vs a dread, and with the help of unleash rage and lemartes reroll hits, they turned it to scrap no problem.

2 fist wielders in the same situation would have had to get pretty damn lucky for 3 wounds (what they ended up causing) to become 8 damage, but 9 from the hammers was more than enough.

 

Plus, you have chainsword/bolter dc in same unit for chaff clearing and bullet soaks, losing a few str4 hits doesn't really matter there.

 

Just something to think about.

Edited January 9, 2018 by The Unseen

[Panzer]

I'm with the Unseen there. You don't want to gamble with that weapon. You want it to hit hard and you want to know that you can rely on it doing so.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

That's fine. I don't feel DC need 3 damage weapons at all. They have obliterated everything I've thrown them up against, from Hive Tyrants and Tervigons, to paladins, grand masters and T7 3+ saves.

[Panzer]

And I've seen powerfists (or any d3 damage weapon) wiff too often to believe they'll do fine when I need them the most. ^^

[toaae]

If you're going to go spend the points on a powerfist, you would be foolish not to spend a little more for the Thunder Hammer. Or, if you feel the loss of the bolter isn't worth it, then just downgrade to a Power Sword. With our +1 to wound, if you don't care about damage, there isn't much reason to take a fist over a sword. Or you do care about damage, and you should take a Thunder Hammer over a Power Fist.

I wish my Orkz had Thunder Hammers. I would take them over Power Klaws in all situations.

[Blackcadian]

Interesting discussion on the Fist vs Hammer. Looking back over the last few games there were actually very few instances of shooting with my DC at all for fear of making the charge longer. And no other targets were available where another S4 shot would’ve made much of a difference. Either way, VASTLY prefer the certain 3 damage over a D3. Getting a wound or two through and then rolling poorly is sichtbar heartbreaker for me, I won’t risk it.

 

Now the inferno pistol, that’s a really good idea - never thought about that!

Edited January 9, 2018 by Blackcadian

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Average damage is 6 on 3 D3. Damage on power swords is 3. Damage on 3 Thunder Hammers is 9. The marginal difference of 3 damage for overkill in CQC does not gain any bonus outside of combat. I usually roll average damage on powerfist.

 

The optimal damage out put is bolters because it keeps every unit optimal in every phase of the game.

 

You guys play what you're most comfortable with. I've found that both options are viable, I just advocate for the most optimal load out.

 

Look at it like this; I play against 20 man blobs of guradians that can deepstrike in and nuke stuff, horde guard, gaunts and Genestealer lists, and then storm bolter bombs, all backed by strong T7+ models.

 

If I am going to deepstrike a 15 man blob down 15+ bolter shots do a lot of damage to those T3 units. So I feel I need those extra 2 to 4 shots, over no shooting. This option also allows me to have on average 2D weapons, rarely do I roll 5-7 rolls of 1 damage on the turn I assault something.

 

5-7 damage 3 is just overkill. It makes them less optimal against the fields I play against.

[Panzer]

The thing tho is that you say it's overkill which I really don't agree on.

[Karhedron]

Average damage is 6 on 3 D3. Damage on power swords is 3. Damage on 3 Thunder Hammers is 9. The marginal difference of 3 damage for overkill in CQC does not gain any bonus outside of combat. I usually roll average damage on powerfist.

 

It may be overkill when you have a full sized squad and can charge your preffered targets. But when you are in the late game, you may have just a few models left from the squad and you really need to remove that MC before he strikes and reduces your squad to a red smear.

[Spagunk]

Also you probably want overkill or just enough to finish a squad. Otherwise they just back away and you're left standing out in the open anyway. Better to kill off the squad than let them flee like the dogs they are, in my opinion.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

 

Average damage is 6 on 3 D3. Damage on power swords is 3. Damage on 3 Thunder Hammers is 9. The marginal difference of 3 damage for overkill in CQC does not gain any bonus outside of combat. I usually roll average damage on powerfist.

It may be overkill when you have a full sized squad and can charge your preffered targets. But when you are in the late game, you may have just a few models left from the squad and you really need to remove that MC before he strikes and reduces your squad to a red smear.

I have yet to have the big brick survive passes their initial assault. I pick the biggest and baddest unit I can and I go for it. Here's what usually happens.

 

Depending on turn and positioning of my opponent, I'll shoot a unit of chafe either off the board, or reduce it to be a non factor, then I go for One of three things, Warlord, multi-assaults, or the most disadvantageous target that my army as a whole will face.

 

An Exocrine, Tervigon or a Hive Tyrant/warlord, A brother captain/grand master/Wraith guard/fire prism/dreadknight/etc.

 

I try to double tap chafe/troops and then either assault over the blanketed ICs/MCs or multi assault them since jump packs can jump over units when charging.

 

Afterwards my opponents *always* unload on them and they are gone for the game. Even if I wait until turn 3 to try and bring them down, they always end up removed as casualties. I'm fine with that, as my list is a very very strong all comers list. If I would change anything it would be to increase the two MSU DC squads into a 2nd and 3rd blob and just bring a squad down a turn to crash into something.

 

When I being 2+squads down on the same target I have no need for thunder hammers, because sheer weight of attacks garuntees a kill, and at that point it depends on who brings what down first.

 

My razorbacks usually play mop up duties after the DC squads are reduced to ineffective objective holders in hopes they actually survive a following turn.

[Paladin777]

I’ve really been intending to bring two MSU of DC as opposed to a big blob. Would you say that this makes the TH over the PF more attractive, or less? A squad of 5 with one TH and one power sword comes to and even 24 Melta-Bombs.

[NTaW]

As much as I love hammers I have decided to leave them out of my DC in favour of 5 power swords in a 15 man squad, relying on weight of attacks and Lemartes to down high T/W models on the rare occasion I target them at such a unit. Mostly they go after everything else though, leaving the really big bads to my SG, characters, and lascannons.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I’ve really been intending to bring two MSU of DC as opposed to a big blob. Would you say that this makes the TH over the PF more attractive, or less? A squad of 5 with one TH and one power sword comes to and even 24 Melta-Bombs.

I bring a power axe in my MSU squads actually. It would be to taste though. I think axes and swords are better for MSU.

[Brother Crimson]

When going MSU you can specialize: swords for infantry, hammers for big wound targets !

 

However it is a lot less effective with Rage Psychic Power and Stratagems.

 

(Power fist is a viable option too  )