Brothers, I seek advice.

[Claws and Effect]

Okay, I'm looking into an escalation league at the local GW store. 

 

Only one problem. It's being run with PL instead of points. 

 

I need some advice building a 25 PL list that will grow to 40, 55, 70, and 85 at the end. I'm allowed to replace two units per week as the list grows in power. 

 

Only other rule is that the list must have 1 HQ and 1 Troops choice. 

 

I'm considering 2 MSU Tactical squads (10 PL), one with a heavy bolter and one with a missile launcher, or the Tactical squad and sniper Scouts with a missile launcher (11 PL). The heavy bolter and missile launcher are must haves somewhere in the list for mortal wounds, to that end I'm leaning toward the Scouts. 

 

I'd like to run my Raven's Fury Captain with a combi-melta and thunder hammer (6 PL). I want something that can kill a character or big critter, and the combi-melta lets him shoot after advancing and before charging :)

 

I'm just at an absolute loss for what to take with the remaining 8-9 PL. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Claws and Effect

[Claws and Effect]

Okay, here's what I have thus far. 

 

Man, 25 PL isn't much to work with. I decided to see if I could fit Shrike in instead. 

 

 

++ Patrol Detachment (Imperium - Space Marines) [25 PL, 496pts] ++

+ HQ +

Kayvaan Shrike [8 PL, 150pts]

+ Elites +

Company Veterans [3 PL, 72pts]
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Plasma gun
. Veteran Sergeant: Combi-plasma, Power fist

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 167pts]: Jump Pack
. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw
. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw
. Space Marine Veteran: Power axe, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword, Power fist, Storm shield
. Veteran Sergeant: Relic blade, Storm shield

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [6 PL, 107pts]: 5x Camo cloak
. Scout Sergeant
. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher
. 3x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 3x Sniper rifle

++ Total: [25 PL, 496pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

[duz_]

Seems like a fun list to start the league. Hopefully there aren't too many guard tanks around.

[Claws and Effect]

Hmmm, maybe I should give everyone melta bombs that can have them.

 

I'd really prefer 500 points instead of 25 power. It's irritating that adding a single Company Vet adds 5 power. 8 power for 3 guys is ridiculous.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Claws and Effect

[Race Bannon]

Ahh, but with PL, those three guys can be armed to the teeth without increase in cost ^_^

 

Not that that is *my* way of doing things ... but still.

[Jacques Corbin]

Is there anything regarding the use of fortifications or battlezones? Because, in Chapter Approved, there are rules, and a Stratagem for the new plasma conduits, where you can throw a grenade that deals mortal wounds. Not that I would do that...

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I think you should start out with bodies and command points then figure out the bling.  

 

Battalion 25pl. 6 Command Points

 

HQ

Captain. Jump Pack, Teeth of Terra, Combi flamer.  6pl  (the teeth of terra i think is much better than the ravens fury)

LT, Combi flamer, powersword.  The armour indomitus  4pl (you use the battalion so you can pay for the bling)

 

Troops

Tacs x 5, plasma, combi-plasma, power sword.  5pl

Tacs x 5, plasma, combi-plasma, power sword.  5pl

Tacs x 5, plasma, combi-plasma, power sword.  5pl

 

The captain is your warlord.  Give him either +1w and fnp or champion of humanity (+1 hit and wound vs characters).  With this list you can use sfts, you can ds just your captain, you can blast stuff off the table with plasma, and you can use some high impact stratagems like Honour the Chapter.  The real kicker is that you are perfectly situated for adding either 3 razorbacks(your choice of flavour) or a stormraven gunship to your list in week 2 which will bring the pain.  

 

Edit:  You really just want to get as many bodies on the table ASAP as your scale up.  Going from 25 to 40 could add so many nice things.

 

1 stormraven

2 bikes squads with tripple melta + assault cannon razorback

3 more tac squads with whatever you want

3 razorbacks

3 squads of assault marines?  lol yeah right

2 squads of devs + banner.  <--- this costs 20 pl so youre gonna have to use some of your substitutes.

 

I think it is especially important to avoid starting out with close combat since 40k favours shooting and vanilla space marines do not stand out in close combat.  You can have capable CC unts but your list really should not be based on it.  

 

Question... are you allowed allies?  If so... would you consider using them?  

Edited January 8, 2018 by SanguinaryGuardsman

[Race Bannon]

^

 

First sentence. Totally.

[Firepower]

Ahh, but with PL, those three guys can be armed to the teeth without increase in cost

 

Not that that is *my* way of doing things ... but still.

 

 

Is there anything regarding the use of fortifications or battlezones? Because, in Chapter Approved, there are rules, and a Stratagem for the new plasma conduits, where you can throw a grenade that deals mortal wounds. Not that I would do that...

 

I can't tell if you Ravens are the mafia or just passive aggressive.

 

"That's an awful nice WAAAGH you got there.  It'd be a shame if something, y'know...'happened' to it.  I mean, I'm not saying I got some mortal wounds to show ya, but I'm not saying I don't, either." 

[Race Bannon]

 

Ahh, but with PL, those three guys can be armed to the teeth without increase in cost ^_^

 

Not that that is *my* way of doing things ... but still.

 

 

 

Is there anything regarding the use of fortifications or battlezones? Because, in Chapter Approved, there are rules, and a Stratagem for the new plasma conduits, where you can throw a grenade that deals mortal wounds. Not that I would do that...

 

 

I can't tell if you Ravens are the mafia or just passive aggressive.

 

"That's an awful nice WAAAGH you got there.  It'd be a shame if something, y'know...'happened' to it.  I mean, I'm not saying I got some mortal wounds to show ya, but I'm not saying I don't, either." :ph34r:

See, you get us man. Templar my plasma gun coil ...

[Claws and Effect]

I'm swapping my Vanguard to 3 dual claws and 2 fist/shield.

 

I like power fists, they are cheaper and I'm not going to dismantle my models to optimise for a PL league when I usually use points.

 

I can't do the Battalion suggestion largely because I don't have the appropriate models, and there is no time to buy, build, and paint them.

 

I'm shooting for a nice mix of shooting and CQC. I have no idea what the meta is like, as I've never played at the store the league is occurring at. I figured I'd go in true to my preferred playstyle and adjust from there if necessary.

 

I'm trying to figure out the earliest point I can squeeze my Fire Raptor in. Probably the 55 PL list.

 

In other news, my poor Murderwings model is getting demoted to Vanguard Sgt.

 

I like the Ravens Fury for the combi-melta/hammer model I built for it. Move, advance, fire melta, charge.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Claws and Effect

[Jacques Corbin]

 

 

Ahh, but with PL, those three guys can be armed to the teeth without increase in cost

 

Not that that is *my* way of doing things ... but still.

Is there anything regarding the use of fortifications or battlezones? Because, in Chapter Approved, there are rules, and a Stratagem for the new plasma conduits, where you can throw a grenade that deals mortal wounds. Not that I would do that...

I can't tell if you Ravens are the mafia or just passive aggressive.

 

"That's an awful nice WAAAGH you got there. It'd be a shame if something, y'know...'happened' to it. I mean, I'm not saying I got some mortal wounds to show ya, but I'm not saying I don't, either."

It's called a sense of humor FP. You crusaders are so serious all the time. We, Sons of Corax are masters of the inside joke. Also, speaking of Chapter Approved, how are those 10 point Hurricane Bolters working out for your crusade?

[Firepower]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204942-the-templar-guide-to-the-galaxy/

 

We've been carrying an inside joke for 8 years, my young friend

 

We have a sense of humor.  Our sense of duty is simply stronger. 

 

The price hike on the Hurricanes is small enough not to care overmuch.  It's the TLAC price hike that hurts!

 

Anyway, back on topic.  Claws, it's obviously not going to help with your current issue of arming your Vanguards, but in the future I would suggest that any squad with a wide variety of options and/or has a role defined by what options you take (i.e. Terminators and their variants), I suggest magnetizing your arms/weapons.  Just be sure to look for n50 strength, so you aren't left with limp marines.  It's more work on the surface, but actually less work than making whole new marines to have that weapon available, and saves you some scratch in the process.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Firepower

[seriade]

My only advice related to your problem is this don't just make the first list sit down and try to come up with how the lists will grow so you do not get yourself stuck. Also early on if you can go as cheap as possible on hq and the early troops ie scouts try to get something as weighty as possible in there that is a heavy vehicle or dread people will have a harder time dealing with those early on then later in the campaign.

[Jacques Corbin]

Also, on magnets, you only need 1 magnet on one side, and metal on the other. My go to is clipped sections of paperclip. Recess the magnet, where possible, and carve a groove above it. Then, on the other side, glue on the bar of paperclip, so that it fits as a tongue into the groove.

 

Oh, and I am your elder, young Crusader, though I would hardly be surprised if @Acebaur was the only Templar with any manners.

[Claws and Effect]

I'm considering trying to fit my Contemptor on there.

[Firepower]

My only advice related to your problem is this don't just make the first list sit down and try to come up with how the lists will grow so you do not get yourself stuck. 

 

As long as you build and paint faster than editions and codexes are released.  I'm always one step behind, and it wrecks me every time. 

 

The direction in this here seems to be towards Tacticals as troops.  Are Scouts not the Ravens' cup of tea?  Are they redundant with your faction rules or something like that?  Or is it just your preference, Claws? 

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

 

My only advice related to your problem is this don't just make the first list sit down and try to come up with how the lists will grow so you do not get yourself stuck. 

 

As long as you build and paint faster than editions and codexes are released.  I'm always one step behind, and it wrecks me every time. 

 

The direction in this here seems to be towards Tacticals as troops.  Are Scouts not the Ravens' cup of tea?  Are they redundant with your faction rules or something like that?  Or is it just your preference, Claws? 

 

Scouts are great, and we all advocate heavily for them.

 

However in a PL game, Tacticals are the cheaper route (coupled with the odd PL cost of 6 for scouts making them have odd totals to fit into 25PL)

 

I think if you were to run scouts you would want them fully kitted to justify the extra 1PL in cost (Cloaks, Rifles, and a Heavy Wep - maybe even gear on the Sergeant)

[hoya4life3381]

 

My only advice related to your problem is this don't just make the first list sit down and try to come up with how the lists will grow so you do not get yourself stuck. 

 

As long as you build and paint faster than editions and codexes are released.  I'm always one step behind, and it wrecks me every time. 

 

The direction in this here seems to be towards Tacticals as troops.  Are Scouts not the Ravens' cup of tea?  Are they redundant with your faction rules or something like that?  Or is it just your preference, Claws? 

 

This is an interesting dilemma in that Scouts are probably better if they eventually switch to points games.  In small scale games, I'm sure the Tac squads will be better in small games since they can truly be the "jack of all trades" they were meant to be :)  

 

The interesting dilemma is then if this escalation methodology using PL's will help them in the long run...

[Claws and Effect]

 

 

My only advice related to your problem is this don't just make the first list sit down and try to come up with how the lists will grow so you do not get yourself stuck.

As long as you build and paint faster than editions and codexes are released. I'm always one step behind, and it wrecks me every time.

 

The direction in this here seems to be towards Tacticals as troops. Are Scouts not the Ravens' cup of tea? Are they redundant with your faction rules or something like that? Or is it just your preference, Claws?

Umm, I'm using a Scout Squad.

 

I'm currently leaning toward a Scout Squad, a Tactical Squad, a Vanguard squad, led by a Captain with jump pack.

 

I'm waffling between the Vanguard Veterans and a Contemptor, honestly. I want an aggressive assault unit to balance the shootier Troops.

 

Pros to Vanguard: Slightly better movement, can use SFTS.

 

Pros to Contemptor: Tougher, has a Kheres.

 

Using PL is challenging for me. If it were 500 points I wouldn't be having nearly the problem deciding on a list.

 

And I have considered how it is going to grow. I'll be adding in whichever I don't start with between the Vanguard and dread.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Claws and Effect

[Jacques Corbin]

Do an Ironclad! I like them better than Contemptor. Unlike a Contemptor, it does not degrade as it takes wounds. Move it up, aggressively, use its Smoke Launchers, and dare your opponent to Supercharge Plasma at that T8 murder machine. There will be a -2 to hit, (-1 from CT, and another -1 from smoke) so 3s to hit will kill them.

[duz_]

I find it somewhat amusing that the smaller non degrading Dreadnoughts do better in fisticuffs than their larger degrading brothers, especially against one another!
That has been the downfall of my Redemptor so far if he doesn't get the jump

[Race Bannon]

Yo, props to the first of their kind as well!

[Claws and Effect]

Do an Ironclad! I like them better than Contemptor. Unlike a Contemptor, it does not degrade as it takes wounds. Move it up, aggressively, use its Smoke Launchers, and dare your opponent to Supercharge Plasma at that T8 murder machine. There will be a -2 to hit, (-1 from CT, and another -1 from smoke) so 3s to hit will kill them.

I don't have an Ironclad

 

However, I did just get a Venerable. So that's an option.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Claws and Effect

[Firepower]

Yeah, gotta get you some of those sweet sweet Ironclads, some day.  Heavy Flamers, those super cheap HK Missiles, Frag Launchers, Punchy Smashy arms or a Hurricane, tough as boulders with intimacy issues, and that evil sneaksie CT you all got for extra durability...they do it all

 

But I feel Contemptors are still more of a pain in the ass to kill with that Invulnerable, though.

 

But you got yourself a Ven, and Venerables are solid options for folks who don't wanna throw everything they have into smashy bashy slashy range.  For funsies, try painting a skull on its face and run it as a Chaplain Dreadnought.  

Edited January 12, 2018 by Firepower