Inceptors New Points

[SyNidus]

Anyone tried the Inceptors now with their point reduction?

I've been thinking of using them in a heavy infiltrator/deep strike list

[Ishagu]

Yeah, top unit. Very cheap and competitive.

 

The best infantry fast-attack option, hands down. Tremendous anti horde or anti elite firepower.

[Captain Idaho]

The plasma versions are a tad expensive really. Just shy of 180pts for 3 models with only 6 wounds between them is outrageously vulnerable. Space Marines are outnumbered so I do not approve of the glass cannon, Termicide approach.

 

Assault Bolters is nice and affordable though. Get them if you're getting Inceptors.

[Ishagu]

Hellblasters are considered a great unit in any level of competitive play.

 

For 12 points more you get a unit with more shots that can deepstrike and doesn't require a transport. I think people are often underestimating the Inceptors.

 

They will always get to shoot first as they don't deploy on the board and will not be targeted before dealing some damage.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Ishagu

[Galron]

I love my Inceptors, to the point in this narrative escalation campaign I am in I started with one squad of plasma dudes in the first 500 points followed by another squad of the bolter dudes at the next 250 point increase just to front load my army(we are allowed to change out equipment and dudes in between games but not units). The plasma ones are constant MVPs doing a fair bit of both effective AV and AI with consistency, especially when supported by a captain type figure for the rerolls. Well worth their points now.

[breng77]

Plasma inceptors are great.  Better for Dark Angels than regular marines due to the plasma stratagem, but there is a lot of value in always hitting your target.  The bolter ones are also good especially for imperial fists (Bolter Drill + ignores cover is pretty decent for an AP -1 weapon).

[Captain Idaho]

Hellblasters are well thought of because you get 10 wounds on 5 separate models, hanging at the rear of the army for most games so as not to be focused on.

 

Personally I wouldn't say they are great competitively speaking as they require character babysitting; merely a reasonable unit in the right army framework.

 

Now, Inceptors are 6 wounds. 1 rapid firing plasma gun can reduce the units firepower by 2 thirds and the range of Inceptors is atrocious.

 

If you're taking pure Primaris Marines then you'll need about 6 Inceptors minimum but I'd save points and stick to the Assault Bolters.

[The Pounder]

I’m with Ishagu, Galron and breng77 Inceptors are great!

For my 2000pts list I have a squad of each Plasma and Bolter.

Granted they may not be as “competitive” as other options out there but they have a job to do

in a Primaris only force and I’ve found they add to my army!

My force has performed well against my group so I’ll be sticking with them.

[Kallas]

T5 actually helps against Overcharged Plasma, as it then only wounds on 3+ instead of 2+. Not enormous, but it does help.

 

And while 18" range isn't the best, it's not awful because the Inceptors control their engagements very well. Deep Strike, Mv10", Fly all combine to help them hit what they need to and on their terms.

 

I've only gotten one game with them under my belt, but dropping down at max range in front of multiple Guard Infantry Squads let me demolish one with the others being much more limited in their response due range.

 

The Assault Bolters are excellent, and while the Plasma Exterminators are expensive, they are damn good.

[CCE1981]

I currently run 3 squads of Inceptors 2 Assault Bolter, and 1x with the Plasma (since the points drop). They have been amazing each time. The disruption to my opponent on the drop is enormous! I have also kept surprising my opponent with their range, a 9” bubble isn’t the good when you can shoot beyond the chaff and hit those important targets. Another big note, the plasma guys haven’t been targetted after the drop despite killing their initial target.

[Captain Idaho]

Hey if you're having a lot of fun with Inceptors armed with plasma then great times. But I think it's misleading to the community to promote them for GW just because you spent money on them.

 

They ain't competitive. In a Primaris only army they might last a little longer since you'll have more of them perhaps or the opponent might target the Reivers first, but let's not pretend Primaris is a competitive army in itself because isn't.

 

Sure a 500pts, narrative game will see them dominate. It's skewed at that point so yes it would, just like a Land Raider will dominate at lower points games.

 

I never approve of lopsided advice. You like the theme so you tell everyone it's great. That's not fair to new players who are spending money on a unit.

 

Instead we should say "sure you can do some damage with plasma Inceptors but they cost too much for their points so beware. You can probably get some cheaper plasma elsewhere too but the unit is a lot of fun".

 

Sorry if this is harsh, isn't supposed to be but I'm working and writing quickly. Basically I'm saying we shouldn't give people biased advice where we can help it as I know if I was thinking of paying money I can barely afford on models that weren't what I thought they were, I'd be put right off.

[Schlitzaf]

I agree with Idaho here. Honestly the comparison to make here is for 40 more points you get 13 Plasma Shots across three Squads (ScionCommand with Rod, and Scion Command w/ Plasma and ScionReg with/Plasma) which is give or take depending 3ish more more Plasma Shots then Deep Striking Interceptors. While purity of army is not unimportant. PlasmaCeptors main niche is replacing SuicideScions.

 

Which they aren’t bad at. However their BolterVariants are cheap, with their primarily equivalent be AssaultBacks. You lose the armor and durability with the ability to choose point of engagement and 6 extra shots.

[Kallas]

But I think it's misleading to the community to promote them for GW just because you spent money on them.

 

They ain't competitive.

 

Sure a 500pts, narrative game will see them dominate. It's skewed at that point so yes it would, just like a Land Raider will dominate at lower points games.

 

I never approve of lopsided advice. You like the theme so you tell everyone it's great. That's not fair to new players who are spending money on a unit.

 

Instead we should say "sure you can do some damage with plasma Inceptors but they cost too much for their points so beware. You can probably get some cheaper plasma elsewhere too but the unit is a lot of fun".

 

Sorry if this is harsh, isn't supposed to be but I'm working and writing quickly. Basically I'm saying we shouldn't give people biased advice where we can help it as I know if I was thinking of paying money I can barely afford on models that weren't what I thought they were, I'd be put right off.

Honestly, this is a pretty facetious post.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but my experience so far has only been positive, and it wasn't in any 'skewed' game either ('proper' 2,000pt tournament prep battle).

 

Considering that there are several here who are lauding them (and not embellishing particularly, either) and there are few against them, I'd say it's you who should re-evaluate the advice you're giving.

 

Frankly, yes Plasma Inceptors are expensive for the platform, but their actual performance on the field has only been good for me so far, and from the sounds of it for others too.

 

They do a lot of damage, and they're effective. If you drop them right in front of the enemy army then, yes, they'll get annihilated right afterwards. So don't drop them there! Drop them where they'll hit something well and then have minimal retaliation - sometimes it might be important to drop and hit something, the. likely be shot up afterwards, but that's a situation that is down to your judgement.

 

You know that they're 60-odd points per model, and you know that they'll probably be focused down quickly if you let them. They probably won't destroy heavy tanks, like Leman Russ, or fully kill even Predators. So deploy them with that in mind. Take out hard-ish targets in their local area so other units nearby (because yes, they should be supported, like all Marine units) can take on the other targets.

 

They are a good tool in our box. I strongly recommend that you take another, closer look at them, and how you have been using them.

 

I agree with Idaho here. Honestly the comparison to make here is for 40 more points you get 13 Plasma Shots across three Squads (ScionCommand with Rod, and Scion Command w/ Plasma and ScionReg with/Plasma) which is give or take depending 3ish more more Plasma Shots then Deep Striking Interceptors. While purity of army is not unimportant. PlasmaCeptors main niche is replacing SuicideScions.

 

Which they aren’t bad at. However their BolterVariants are cheap, with their primarily equivalent be AssaultBacks. You lose the armor and durability with the ability to choose point of engagement and 6 extra shots.

I would debate that analysis of their role. While they don't have great range, their firepower does diminish at greater ranges, so their ability to restrict retaliation is far greater. Plasma Scions need to drop within 12" to get their full shots, whereas Inceptors can drop at 18", which gives them much, much better flexibility. They can drop next to LOS blocking terrain to minimise return fire, or into cover better to maximise their T5/Sv3+ (and the T5 is not to be dismissed - those Scions are getting wounded by most anti infantry guns, like Bolters and Heavy Bolters on 3/4+, whereas Inceptors are 4/5+).

 

Anecdote time: I deployed my Inceptors at max range and using a large ruin on one flank to block LOS, so that I could hammer a couple of units in relative isolation. I had a unit of Bolter Scouts there for support and additional firepower. The closest Infantry Squad got demolished and the Heavy Bolter Heavy Weapons Team lost two dudes (I split fire, FYI). In return the Inceptors lost a single wound as the other two squads couldn't reach rapid fire range, and the Autocannon Sentinel had to move to get LOS with the cover meaning it bounced completely.

 

Using the terrain, support unit and target prioritisation my Inceptors took barely any damage. Next turn they and the Scouts moved up and basically collapsed that flank, using a central ruin in their deployment zone to block LOS from his Russ on the other side of the deployment zone from volleying into them.

 

Basically, they're like every Marine unit: used with a little bit of thought they'll perform well. Use them with little planning and they'll disappoint. Marines are pretty finesse based at the moment - we're an expensive force with minimal capacity to soak damage.

 

Edit:

Let me addend: I don't think they are super duper ridiculous amazing. I simply think that they are very good at their role, which is sudden fire superiority. Support them and position them well and they will perform well.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Kallas

[breng77]

I don't think it is a fair characterization that all people here are misleading the community because they spent money on them.   Sorry that comes across as having no experience with them and writing off the option without actually using it.

 

 I won a small RTT using 2 squads of plasma inceptors in a Dark Angels + White Scars build.  In that case it is important to note that having Damage 3 plasma (or 2 damage without over charging) is huge.  Yes they die after coming in most of the time, so they need to pick their spot, but what I'm getting here is "hey play guard because they are cheaper."  When Compared to Scions it is important to note inceptors have longer range and so are less prone to screening.

 

They are not auto win or even an auto take, I wouldn't run 30 of them, but a couple squads (or one big squad in DA if a target for it exists) can find a home in certain lists.  I play a highly mobile army which presents a lot of threats to my opponents early.  Inceptors drawing fire from other units is a nice advantage in some cases and if they get left alone cool.

 

They don't cost too much for what they do, they are priced appropriately (12 plasma shots on essentially biker bodies).

 

Honestly I'd say if you are worried about plasma inceptors being too expensive for what they do, don't play marines.  At all, outside of maybe Rowboat + razorbacks and Fire Raptors.

 

Honestly name a cheaper MARINE plasma unit for equivalent fire power?

Plasma Devastators average 4 shots less for 27 points less(can get 1 turn of 2 shots less), and 1 less wound.

Bikes - 122 points for 6 plasma shots

Helblasters- are comparable but have more range issues for max fire power (12 points less for 5 more wounds at lower Toughness, better range, but worse range for max effect)

Sternguard - get 10 shots for 155 points, but need some way to get into range.

 

So if your opinion is "Well just run plasma scions."  Then why is the answer to why run marines not "play guard"

Chaff - generally better in guard

long range fire - generally better in guard

melee - I guess but Marines are not good here either.

So RG and a fire raptor?

 

Seriously, I don't think people will be disappointed with Plasma Inceptors.  I will say it is easy to misuse them, and so you need to be thoughtful about it, but that is called playing most marine lists in this edition.

[Schlitzaf]

Because they are 40 Points Cheaper, benefit from character rerolls, Assault on weapons grants them mobility, can enable an Outrider, they aren’t suicide units, one drop vs three, they can redeploy after initial drop, they can inflict mortal wounds, and they aren’t terrible in close combat unlike Scions. Also they leave Combat and still shoot.

 

I said they are a replacement for SuicideScions not that Suicide Scions are better. SuicideScions simply have more raw offensive potential than Interceptors, if that is the only reason your taking PlasmaCeptors for suicide 8-10 Overcharge Plasma on Deep Strike. SuicideScions are for the 40 more points are better.

 

If you taking them because they are highly mobile fire support midfield high damage engagement unit that can redeploy rapidly and quickly as the game requires. And can tie up backfield if they fail to kill then withdraw to shoot on your turn, then?

 

Then they are superb. I simply believe taking regular Interceptors which fills a role while being able to fill the role of PlasmaCeptors. While not exactly as good (half the damage count). They are still able to do that role.

 

Proper Role for the Proper Job. If you use Interceptors purely as drop Plasma, SuicideScions are better. If you use them as a highly mobile high threats engagement and long term bully unit. They are amazing. I’d just AssaultBolters and use those 60ish points on Liutanent

[Captain Idaho]

I was working and I did point out my phrasing my have needed further modification...

 

I'm not saying people are maliciously misleading the community, I'm saying there are many comments of "yes plasma Inceptors are amazing! Look I took 3 in a 500pts narrative game and owned." And the like which is misleading if a new player reads it and doesn't have context or moderation to the statement (moderation from the author not the team here soz).

 

Now I'm happy to enter into debate about their usefulness and effectiveness, but you yourself Kallas even end your post here with

 

Let me addend: I don't think they are super duper ridiculous amazing. I simply think that they are very good at their role, which is sudden fire superiority. Support them and position them well and they will perform well. 

Which isn't actually a million miles away from my position either. We are somewhat converging but putting different emphasis on the importance and effectiveness of a sudden deep striking unit. Due to range and the low model count I don't particularly feel it's a quality trade off whereas you do.

 

Come on though, you must see how reading unqualified "this is awesome" feedback would put a player off?

 

I can be convinced but right now I'm not seeing many competitive lists without Guilliman that use Primaris or Inceptors.

[Captain Idaho]

Sorry guys. I don't want to come off as bashing Inceptors. My experience and what I've researched aren't relevant in this thread beyond my opinion that I rate about 6 out of 10.

 

Kallas on the other hand has some interesting ideas that look helpful to the topic and quite relevant to making them work for you.

 

I especially want to apologise to SyNidius if I've stolen his threads thunder.

 

All the best with.

[breng77]

I'm not sure Scions are better at drop plasma other than being multiple squads.

 

They need to be within 12" for max effect which means things like auspex scan can delete a squad (so the command squad if it drops nearby)

What you describe seems to be 211 points (so  34 points more), and put out 13 plasma shots, at 12".  3 Inceptors on average put out 12 shots (6D3 shots, averages 2 shots each so 12 shots, it tends to be pretty consistent low is 6 shots high is 18 shots usually it is right around 12) so you are looking at 1 addition shots at 6" less range.

 

Durability (if all I care about is the plasma, and not the tempestor) you are looking at 6 T5 3+ wounds, vs 9 T3 4+ wounds.  Against small arms fire the inceptors are more durable (takes 54 lasgun hits to wipe the squad, vs 36 to wipe the scions, for bolters it is 54 to 27.) now against higher strength and damage weapons this swings in favor of the scions.  That said the inceptors are going to draw those multi damage shots, and scions won't.  So if other things in your army are multiple wound models this is actually a plus for inceptors, if not then less so.

 

Also as I said I've been running mine as DA with the plasma stratagem which makes them significantly better than Scions.

 

I do agree with Idaho that it depends on your list, much like almost everything in Marines (and most of the game honestly).  Whether they become RG level competitive in marine based lists remains to be seen, but if you don't want to run a RG gunline they are a tool in your tool box.

[Tamiel]

I'm going to compare Assault Bolter Inceptors to Double Heavy Flamer Landspeeder, just for the hell of it.

 

Both Assault Bolters and Heavy Flamers are S5, Ap -1, 1D.

Both units are Toughness 5 and have a 3+ save.

 

Assault Bolter Inceptors: 

135pts

10" Movement

18 shots (On average 12 confirmed hits, ASSUMING NO MODIFIERS, and number of hits goes down by 1/3rd for every 2 wounds you take)

18" weapon range 

6 Wounds spread across 3 models (2W each)
7 Melee Attacks total (At STR 4, WS3+)

Can Deepstrike

 

Landspeeder (2x Heavy flamers)

104pts

16" Movement

2D6 Shots, but they auto hit. (On average 7 confirmed hits, regardless of modifiers, regardless of wounds taken)
8" Weapon range

6 wounds on one model

2 Melee attacks total (at STR 4, WS3+)
Can't deepstrike


On melee, the inceptors win, especially with their special rule. But you have to realize that they cost 30 points more, and neither of these two squads are meant for melee.

When it comes to shooting, the inceptors win in all cases except for the following:

• If they have taken casualties
• If the enemy has a "-1 to hit" rule or something similar

 

So, if you are down to two inceptors, a landspeeder that has also taken two wounds has about the same number of confirmed hits. If you are down to one inceptor (meaning you have taken 4 wounds in total), the landspeeder would to much better (because even after taking four wounds, it is performing at maximum strength). This brings us to the defensive stats of both squads. They are both made up of T5, 3+ save, 6 wounds. But as we know, the inceptor has 2W per model, whereas the landspeeder is one model with 6 wounds. Obviously, the landspeeder is more vulnerable against lascannons and heavy anti-tank weapons. But against small arms, or even medium weapons (like auto-cannons), the landspeeder does better when it comes to keeping its damage potential.

On to mobility. Despite the fact that the inceptors can deepstrike, I'd give the mobility to the landspeeder as it can move 6" more per turn. That can add up, but the value of deepstriking might be worth more depending on the situation.

 

Summary:
When it comes to straight up shooting, the inceptors do better until they start taking two wounds, at which point they do about the same number of comfirmed hits as the landspeeder, but remember that the landspeeder is 30pts cheaper. The range advantage is on the inceptor side, but the landspeeder's mobility makes up for it, however this might also put it in more dangerous areas.

As soon as both units have suffered 4 wounds, the landspeeder does better than the inceptors on almost all categories.

The landspeeder is also much better at moving around the map after the inceptors have deep-striked. I think this makes the landspeeder a better option for holding objectives or scoring linebreaker.

Defensively, the landspeeder is much better against light and medium weapons, whereas the inceptors are more favourable against heavy AV weapons. (When I say heavy AV weapons, I also include melta)

Edited January 8, 2018 by Tamiel

[Kallas]

Tamiel: one thing to bear in mind for Heavy Flamer Land Speeders is that Heavy Flamers are, in fact, Heavy type, so they cannot advance and shoot without some kind of outside assistance.

 

Idaho (Edit: wrong name!): My apologies if I also came off too harsh. There's definitely something to be said for differing opinions (I don't know how many times I've been stubbornly resistant on the 'losing' side of a forum

Edited January 8, 2018 by Kallas

[Captain Idaho]

I'm pretty much sold on the bolter Inceptors for the record, though can't work out a suitable conversion I can achieve (thinking of some sort of flying Attack Bike. Or maybe Jetbikes...)

[Tamiel]

Tamiel: one thing to bear in mind for Heavy Flamer Land Speeders is that Heavy Flamers are, in fact, Heavy type, so they cannot advance and shoot without some kind of outside assistance.

My bad, fixed.

[Captain Idaho]

Thinking of a way to use Plasma Inceptors...

 

Definitely hold them in orbit before dropping them. Make sure you have other units that will provide and immediate and pressing concern. Assault troops about to charge is my main idea here.

 

At this point you'll be forcing your opponent to make a choice between Inceptors and the sharp end of a stick.

 

Also, it goes without saying to try and drop with a building or other line or sight blocking terrain piece between you and the likely available retaliation. Remember you want small arms fire "wasted" on Inceptors where possible so you can benefit from T5. If the opponent's heavy weapons have to choose between Inceptors and that Repulsor and Redemptor, the Inceptors are also doing a job.

 

Lots to remember. :)

[breng77]

Yup,  I run mine in a list with a bunch of bikes so almost all targets are T5 and 2 wounds, so somewhere there are bad target priority choices.  All these units hit hard early and so draw the attention of my opponent.  I think the big negative to plasma inceptors is playing against armies where they don't have a great target.  Things like horde orks, or an all infantry guard list.  They really want multiple wound targets that are fairly expensive, or at least high armor save models.

[SyNidus]

Sorry guys. I don't want to come off as bashing Inceptors. My experience and what I've researched aren't relevant in this thread beyond my opinion that I rate about 6 out of 10.

 

Kallas on the other hand has some interesting ideas that look helpful to the topic and quite relevant to making them work for you.

 

I especially want to apologise to SyNidius if I've stolen his threads thunder.

 

All the best with.

Nah mate, not stolen at all. I'm always wary of overly positive reviews.

 

I need to weigh the pros and cons of this unit because - as you rightly pointed out - it's going to cost me money to buy.

 

Overall, they seem interesting, especially the boltceptors. I might consider them in some builds in the future, especially as a replacement for the Assback. But what my list needs is anti-vehicle/high toughness targets. The list i've come up with has a lot of high pressure units for the alpha strike, but it lacks strong shooting to back it up. That's why i was thinking Plasceptors might be able to fit that role, deepstriking and pouring on the plasma shots while my vanguard squads assault the remnants.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

So it's easier for your reference:

 

If i were to play with Inceptors, this would by the list i'd try. I have 7 units starting on the board and 7 units that start in reserve/strike from the shadows. My concern is lack of anti-tank really, hence i wonder whether Inceptors can fulfill this role. The Vanguard squads will be using strike from the shadows to be in the opponent's face on turn one, and perhaps i'll also drop my Inceptors in from orbit as well.

 

 

Battalion Detachment:

Shrike - 150

Librarian - JP, BP, FSword - 120

Scouts - 5 man - 4 Snipers, Missile Launcher - 96

Scouts - 5 man - 4 Snipers, Missile Launcher - 96

Scouts - 5 man - 4 Snipers, Missile Launcher - 96

Scouts - 5 man - Bolters - 55

Scouts - 5 man - Bolters - 55

Scouts - 5 man - Bolters - 55

Inceptors - 3 man - Plasma - 177

Inceptors - 3 man - Plasma - 177

- 1077

 

Vanguard Detachment: 

Celestine - 2 Gemini - 250

Vanguard Veterans - 8 man - JP, 6 TH/SS, 2 Dual LC - 294

Vanguard Veterans - 8 man - JP, 6 TH/SS, 2 Dual LC - 294

Culexus - 85

-  923

 

Total: 2000

Model Count: 58

CPs: 7

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by SyNidus