General Discussion: Cult Marines in Mixed Legions

[Closet Skeleton]

Essentially, I don't think you should get Legion rules if your Detachment is made up of a mix of Legions. I don't have an issue with the Black Legion or Red Corsairs having a mix - they're Warbands, not Legions. 

 

My exception here is Plague Marines, which are really just CSMs with MoN taken up a notch.

 

Sure, you can supposedly make new Rubrics, Khorne Berzerkers, and Noise Marines, with a scaled down Rubric of Ahriman, implanting SMs with the Butcher's Nails, or Fabius Bile performing some DIY surgery. I haven't seen any examples of this in the fluff though, though there might be.  

 

There are no legions, only warbands who share fighting traditions with other warbands. Even more organized groups like the Death Guard are actually just a collection of warbands when they fight.

 

Berzerker surgery has been performed by multiple groups in pretty much every version of the fluff, you just have to read the codex entries.

[Warpmiss]

Even though I am avoiding Cult units in my Iron Warriors, I personally like the idea of, for example, having Khorne berserkers in a non-WE army and justify them as just being berserkers because, that's what they are called after all. Just because they follow Khorne it doesn't mean they must be WE. I find one of the nicest things about a CSM army is that you have come up with so many reasons as to why your warband is the way it is thanks to the way things have been for the Heretic Astartes since the Horus Heresy.

[ChazSexington]

 

Essentially, I don't think you should get Legion rules if your Detachment is made up of a mix of Legions. I don't have an issue with the Black Legion or Red Corsairs having a mix - they're Warbands, not Legions. 

 

My exception here is Plague Marines, which are really just CSMs with MoN taken up a notch.

 

Sure, you can supposedly make new Rubrics, Khorne Berzerkers, and Noise Marines, with a scaled down Rubric of Ahriman, implanting SMs with the Butcher's Nails, or Fabius Bile performing some DIY surgery. I haven't seen any examples of this in the fluff though, though there might be.  

 

There are no legions, only warbands who share fighting traditions with other warbands. Even more organized groups like the Death Guard are actually just a collection of warbands when they fight.

 

Berzerker surgery has been performed by multiple groups in pretty much every version of the fluff, you just have to read the codex entries.

 

 

I would argue there still are Legions - or at least whenever their respective Primarchs crack some skulls together. Regardless, there are at least Warbands whom are exclusively derived from a single Legion, and thus carry on many of their doctrines and tactics. As an example, I don't believe we have a single example of an Alpha Legion Noise Marine. Is it impossible? Probably not (if more can be created). However, it then becomes odd when the fluff translates so badly into the crunch that Alpha Legion players are encouraged to play Noise Marines if they want to play to their strengths. 

 

I think the best solution is making Cult units 0-1 for non-Cult Legions per Detachment (or army) or some other form of restriction. Alternatively, give World Eaters a different version of Berzerker, like Rampager, which in some ways should be even more brutal. I know they have a Stratagem to improve them, but I don't think it's quite enough. 

[Bulwyf]

I agree with the OP. All of my armies are mono that army. My DG are all DG. My EC are all EC. My Space Wolves are, you guessed it, all SW. Night lords are just Night Lords, etc. I care more about the fluff and my own head canon than I do for rules and units advantages. If you look at the various lists I've posted on this site you will see they are all mono that army as a result.

 

There's nothing wrong with wanting your renegades or non specific god Legion running around with a mix mash. I just don't like that for myself. There's certainly units of mercenaries out there that would fluff wise fit anything you wanted to explain why you have a mix mash of cult units.

[Panzer]

I agree with the OP. All of my armies are mono that army. My DG are all DG. My EC are all EC. My Space Wolves are, you guessed it, all SW. Night lords are just Night Lords, etc. I care more about the fluff and my own head canon than I do for rules and units advantages. If you look at the various lists I've posted on this site you will see they are all mono that army as a result.

 

There's nothing wrong with wanting your renegades or non specific god Legion running around with a mix mash. I just don't like that for myself. There's certainly units of mercenaries out there that would fluff wise fit anything you wanted to explain why you have a mix mash of cult units.

That's totally fine, however not all Plague Marines are DG, not all Noise Marines are EC and so on.

Also depending on the narrative a mixed legion/warband is not less fluffy than a pure one. It doesn't always have to be a rules advantage thing when someone mixes different subfactions. For example I will definitely include a small AM detachment with my BA eventually. Does it give me an advantage? Yes for sure. However that's not the reason why I'm doing that. I simply want some regular Guardsmen fighting alongside my Primaris Marines. ^^

[Bulwyf]

This won't quote but sfPanzer, you are more than fine running a list like that. I didn't say that going mono Legion was more fluffy but for *me* and how I want my army fluff to work out in my head then I only run mono lists. I'm not trying to suggest that running a mixed list is somehow less fluffy than a mono list.

[Khornestar]

 

I think the best solution is making Cult units 0-1 for non-Cult Legions per Detachment (or army) or some other form of restriction.

 

Wait... solution to what? You have a preference for cult units not to be taken in certain Legion-based armies. Isn’t the best solution to just build your list however you see fit, or are you suggesting that other players should be constrained because of your preferences?

 

I do approve of the unique legion units though, that is a super cool idea that I wouldn’t want limited to the pantheon-based legions. Hmm... I think I’ll make a thread about that.