Ezekiel value in an army list?

[Brother Chaplain Tyranus]

So I haven't yet had the courage to take Ezekiel in a list but I am seeing more and more people do it. Are you guys seeing value in it? He doesn't seem to be that much better than a stock Libby and in the games I have been playing, my opponents librarians have been travelling in the middle of the army. I wouldn't send Ezekiel in to hunt other witches necessarily. What are your guys' thoughts?

[Brother Captain Ed]

He has a 4++ built in.

 

That alone makes him an excellent librarian.

[SnakeChisler]

If your taking a Librarian on foot he's an auto choice.

 

For the few extra points he costs he gets 2 denies instead of 1 can choose an extra power has 2+ instead of 3+ with a 4++ and sword that's S+1 damage is standard D3 except against Psyker which is D3+1. Even his pistol is buff

[aura_enchanted]

If your taking a Librarian on foot he's an auto choice.

 

For the few extra points he costs he gets 2 denies instead of 1 can choose an extra power has 2+ instead of 3+ with a 4++ and sword that's S+1 damage is standard D3 except against Psyker which is D3+1. Even his pistol is buff

 

this coming after years of him being passed over because luls no invul save.

 

seriously look at his previous listings and see how amazing he was. in 7th edition he was actually one of the best raw talents for magic in the entire bloody imperial roster, and the only reason people passed over him was because he was 1 not on a bike and 2 had no invul unlike every other named librarian, he even had feel no bloody pain. and fundamentally to make a librarian as good and that had one of those two you almost had to spend one and a half times his points. and good ol generic man always took the place he should have held.

 

and then in 6th edition he was also really really good as a secondary and again in 5th edition. and the only thing holding him down was the lack of an invul.

 

this i feel was games workshop caving after years of trying to simply make him better in other ways without giving him safeties to make him tougher to kill. shame they didnt treat other spellcasters with such distain and kit gloves.

Edited January 13, 2018 by aura_enchanted

[Madmonkeyman]

Mobility is key for librarians. Especially with debuffing powers with 18-24 range. They need to debuff a big tank, a key enemy unit or be up field supporting an assault unit with righteousness repugnance. The enemy won't just walk into range. If it takes you 3 turns to get across the board to do that there isn't much point in him even if he has a special bolt pistol or invun save. Bike librarian is useful from turn one ( he has a 38 to 44 inch range for his powers if he advances). Edited January 13, 2018 by Madmonkeyman

[SnakeChisler]

Your assuming your always playing against a gunline force, for starters there's no deployment > 24 & some of the new ones take it down to 18"

 

2nd the new edition + chapter approved gives you multiple ways to play and does nothing for gunline, to win you need to move around.

 

If your not tailoring your list every 5 minutes then Ezekiel is an auto choice on a number of levels with 2 denies and Aversion at 24" Mind wipe at 18" & also having an ancient nearby to pep his leadership to 10.

 

I'm currently using him with Azreal and Hellblaster's + intercessors & an ancient to hold the centre of the board while fast and ravenwing units pressure the enemy lines.

 

Bike Librarian is OK but it's smite and Aversion at best

[Madmonkeyman]

The question is what units do you use aversion against? It usually is something big like a tank and why would a good opponent ever put it near your librarian. Ezekiel is clearly better than an foot librarian but I think mobility is way better than that. Normal librarian can cast 2 powers so no reason they can't mind wipe/ aversion though except you can't buff his leadership.

[Brother Captain Ed]

There is plenty merit to both views.

 

Mobility synergizes really well with psykers since getting into range of the right targets helps more than smiting whatever is nearby.

 

That said, Ezekiel is an outstanding librarian. He has a solid statline, good weapons, and an invuln save (which is rare as rocking horse crap amongst librarians).

 

While the bike librarian has obvious application in a cavalry role, Ezekiel is ideally designed for a gunline babysitter/counter-punch role or to ride along with a Stormraven/drop pod (drop pod...haha haha!) strike team.

 

I think he's a pretty easy sell personally. His datasheet may not 100% make up for his lack of native mobility...but it comes awfully close

[aura_enchanted]

There is plenty merit to both views.

 

Mobility synergizes really well with psykers since getting into range of the right targets helps more than smiting whatever is nearby.

 

That said, Ezekiel is an outstanding librarian. He has a solid statline, good weapons, and an invuln save (which is rare as rocking horse crap amongst librarians).

 

While the bike librarian has obvious application in a cavalry role, Ezekiel is ideally designed for a gunline babysitter/counter-punch role or to ride along with a Stormraven/drop pod (drop pod...haha haha!) strike team.

 

I think he's a pretty easy sell personally. His datasheet may not 100% make up for his lack of native mobility...but it comes awfully close

agreed, its stupidly close, theres a point where mobility can be sacrificed if your getting that much raw power or value at an agreeable cost. and its not like walking spellcasters havent worked or dont work today, even in other armies. dont believe me, jsut go ask the genestealer cults, inquisitors dont bike, tyranid spellcasters outside of the hive tyrant all walk across the ground my man.

 

dont see any of them complaining, nor do i see the death guard complaining or nurgle demons, they all gotta walk.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Remember guys a little used weapon in Space Marine armoury called DROP POD. Yes its expensive, but what isn't in 8th these days? Ezekiel as well as whatever guys you want to get the job done can be used to deep strike where they need to be. Whether its as a debuff machine, buffing, or suicide veterans, we're spoilt for choice. 

 

If I had to use a power armoured character on foot, the drop pod would still be fastest way to get in the face. Otherwise, there is nothing wrong with being in a rhino or any other transport. you don't HAVE to cast every round.

 

Besides, all those fancy primaris are on foot too. they would make great bodyguards, and the power Righteous Repugnance will make Hellblasters even more deadly with rerolls hit AND wound.

[SnakeChisler]

If your playing progressive missions sitting at the back will result in a loss most times

 

A lot of the brute force weaponry is only range 24" so most armies need an advancing or a DS threat anyways last game I took him he moved 6 + 6 run move into midfield and due to screening rievers in buildings in front / side and intercessors behind couldn't be targeted due to character status.

 

It seems odd having 1 guy out there casting mind bullets but that's how the rules currently work.

Oh and I took an ancient for the 1St time last game and the +1 to leadership helps libbies with mind wipe