Relic and Stratagem query... plus one epic fail!

[The Gozfather]

Had a very close and thoroughly enjoyable game this afternoon (my first win of 2018!  ), but ran into a couple of situations which we weren't overly sure about. Neither of us are massively experienced 8th ed players, so apologies if these are really obvious or been asked elsewhere.

 

1) The Angels Wing relic - states "You can re-roll failed charges...", does this mean I have to? As if I did, I would be re-rolling both dice as per FAQ, but if I rolled a 6 + 1, I might want to use a command point to re-roll the 1 and save the 6. This situation arose and we played I could spend the command point to re-roll just the single dice. Correct?

 

2.1) Descent of Angels + Upon Wings of Fire - DoA allows 3D6 charge if the unit was "set up" on the battlefield earlier that turn. If I use UWoF in the movement phase I "remove the unit.... and set it up...". The stratagem specifically says "set it up" so I can also use DoA in the charge phase that turn? My oppo read DoA as only being for units firstly arriving on that turn, i.e. from jump pack assault etc, but I think what I wanted to do was legit? Thoughts?

 

2.2) Descent of Angels + disembarking - Exactly as above, but this time instead of UWoF I'm disembarking from a Stormraven. Rulebook on disembarking from transports again says "When a unit disembarks, set it up on the battlefield....". Again, the wording is specifically "set it up" so I think I am legally able to use DoA after they've disembarked? Thoughts?

 

Epic Fail: Lemartes charges into a 1 wound remaining Interceptor. 6 attacks on the charge hitting on 2+ with re-roll, at S6, -2AP and D3 Damage.... utterly fails to do anything to the Interceptor who promptly punches him back in the face.   Couldn't believe it when the Interceptor was still standing!!! Any other good fails to share?

[Aothaine]

Regarding the first question, the rule states "You can" so you don't have to and yes you can then choose to use a command point to reroll the 1. However you cannot reroll the charge using the relic and then use a command point as you cannot reroll a reroll.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Aothaine

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

1) as I understand it, you can choose to re-roll failed charges (you dont have to if you fail a charge, but you might as well since you took the relic and already got shot in overwatch) AND if that second charge roll failed, you can choose to use a CP to reroll 1 dice but that means you cant use another CP to reroll another dice until you go to the next phase.

 

2.1) UWOF lets you set up a unit at the end of movement (meaning 9" away like normal deep strike) and then you use DOA to give you the bonus to your charge rolls, YES you can do it as long as you have the command points for it all.

Grey knights have a unit that can do a teleport shunt, and they were already on the field but the teleport shunt allows them to effectively 'deep strike' after being deployed, a Tau with Early warning system can shoot at it if they are 'setup' within 12" of a unit with the system and can shoot at them immediately.

So doing doing UWOA and then doing DoA is perfectly legal interaction of the abilities.

 

2.2) Again, since the unit was not on the field yet, and disembarking is considered 'set up', then yes you can do DOA to give you a bonus to charging after disembarking. If a unit is disembarking, deep striking, teleporting, etc and are 'set up' onto the field, you can use DOA to give a bonus to charge.

 

 

In playing a game against my wife, my primaris vs slaanesh and khorne daemons, 1 squad of bloodletters, 1 squad of bloodcrushers and a bloodthirster all FAILED their charge rolls to get into CQC and were utterly obliterated in my next turn.

 

 

Regarding the first question, the rule states "You can" so you don't have to and yes you can then choose to use a command point to reroll the 1. However you cannot reroll the charge using the relic and then use a command point as you cannot reroll a reroll.

Brother Captain Stern would like a word with you.....

Edited January 10, 2018 by Saxxon the Dragoon

[Kallas]

1) as I understand it, you can choose to re-roll failed charges (you dont have to if you fail a charge, but you might as well since you took the relic and already got shot in overwatch) AND if that second charge roll failed, you can choose to use a CP to reroll 1 dice but that means you cant use another CP to reroll another dice until you go to the next phase.

This is incorrect, as mentioned earlier you cannot reroll a die more than once.

 

You have three options:

1 - make no rerolls

2 - reroll all dice involved using Angel's Wings

3 - reroll one die using the Command Reroll Stratagem

 

You may not reroll using Angel's Wings and then reroll one die with the Stratagem.

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

 

1) as I understand it, you can choose to re-roll failed charges (you dont have to if you fail a charge, but you might as well since you took the relic and already got shot in overwatch) AND if that second charge roll failed, you can choose to use a CP to reroll 1 dice but that means you cant use another CP to reroll another dice until you go to the next phase.

This is incorrect, as mentioned earlier you cannot reroll a die more than once.

 

You have three options:

1 - make no rerolls

2 - reroll all dice involved using Angel's Wings

3 - reroll one die using the Command Reroll Stratagem

 

You may not reroll using Angel's Wings and then reroll one die with the Stratagem.

 

 

You are right, keep forgetting the about the FAQ update to the core rulebook.

[Jorre]

Following!

[Panzer]

1. Yes that's certainly possible. It states you can so it gives you a choice!

2.1 Yes, it's one of the (expensive) tricks we have up our sleeves with our Codex. Note that you can add another layer by giving a Librarian Dreadnought FLY via Wings of Sanguinius and then use those Stratagems even. Target unit needs the Jump Pack keyword, not the FLY keyword. 

2.2 This one is a bit more curious but since GW uses the same wording (“set up“) here and the Stratagem doesn't state the unit has to come from reserves it means you can indeed use it that way.


EDIT: to your Lemartes fail....do you mean Intercessor or Inceptor? Because the Interceptor is the Flyer.

Edited January 11, 2018 by sfPanzer

[Kallas]

2.1 [...] Note that you can add another layer by giving a Librarian Dreadnought FLY via Wings of Sanguinius and then use those Stratagems even. :P

Actually, UWoF and DoA both require JUMP PACK, not FLY, so a Wings'd Librarian (Dreadnought) cannot use them, unless it's already got a Jump Pack.

 

EDIT: to your Lemartes fail....do you mean Intercessor or Inceptor? Because the Interceptor is the Flyer. :P

Could mean a Grey Knight Interceptor? :P

[Panzer]

 

2.1 [...] Note that you can add another layer by giving a Librarian Dreadnought FLY via Wings of Sanguinius and then use those Stratagems even. :P

Actually, UWoF and DoA both require JUMP PACK, not FLY, so a Wings'd Librarian (Dreadnought) cannot use them, unless it's already got a Jump Pack.

EDIT: to your Lemartes fail....do you mean Intercessor or Inceptor? Because the Interceptor is the Flyer. :P

Could mean a Grey Knight Interceptor? :P

True to both! :P

[Blackcadian]

Somewhat OT but I can’t help wondering how many games are decided by getting rules wrong (re-rolling re-rolls, confusing FLY with jump pack, buying two relics for one character and so on). I bet every army has it’s share of specifically worded rules and unless one is familiar with every army theres no way to be sure your opponent is playing “as intended”. Watched a game a couple weeks ago where a buddy wanted to use his re-roll stratagem twice on Gulliman as he went down (first on the invul then on the resurrection). The opponent would've let him (unfamiliarity with rules), too.

 

Oh and gz to your first win! :)

[Panzer]

Well the edition and especially the individual codexes are atill new. Most people aren't playing 3 games a week so they're still learning. ;)

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

not to mention that they keyword system, certain new terminology in the edition in a game thats spent the last 30 years not having the keywords and such. Some things have gotten a lot better and smoother, but considering there are multiple FAQ's correcting multiple issues not just with the core-rules, but also all the indexes/codexes as well as a command point/strategem system.

 

its a lot to take in and getting all the right interpretations of rules takes a little while. Some things stick better in practice than just reading.

[The Gozfather]

EDIT: to your Lemartes fail....do you mean Intercessor or Inceptor? Because the Interceptor is the Flyer.

 

The jump pack dudes with the nasty plasma guns.... Inceptor?! Someone that Lemartes should have squished no problem, regardless! 

 

Thanks for the clarifications with the questions; glad to know I was playing it right!

 

 

Somewhat OT but I can’t help wondering how many games are decided by getting rules wrong (re-rolling re-rolls, confusing FLY with jump pack, buying two relics for one character and so on). I bet every army has it’s share of specifically worded rules and unless one is familiar with every army theres no way to be sure your opponent is playing “as intended”. Watched a game a couple weeks ago where a buddy wanted to use his re-roll stratagem twice on Gulliman as he went down (first on the invul then on the resurrection). The opponent would've let him (unfamiliarity with rules), too.

 

 

And yes to this. A couple games I've lost have been down to "mis-interpreted" or "forgotten" rules (don't think they're deceitful enough to be outright cheats but now my eye is on them!).