Panda_Saurus_Rex Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 So apparently rules as written, units with the Fly keyword can only move through models/terrain in the movement phase. No more pile in or charge over shenanigans.https://i.imgur.com/RX5Xycg.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rcketmouse Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Well that would change things for sure… Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 That certainly would make it match the previous designer intent that the Jump Packs are used more for getting around, and the final charge is done on foot. Still, I prefer the idea of the Assault Marines basically landing on their targets as part of the charge. Hopefully we'll get an FAQ soon to clarify things. Quixus 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unseen Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I'll believe that when it's actually printed in an FaQ, not a Facebook post. Cause that is not RaW, but it might be RaI, but I doubt it. It doesn't say "movement phase" anywhere in there, it just says move. And you move models in several different phases. Quixus 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_Saurus_Rex Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 I didn't want to believe it either but I checked and it's true. The only time it mentions that having Fly let's you ignore models and terrain is in movement phase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unseen Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 No, it doesn't. It says, "If the DATASHEET for a model says it can FLY, it can move across models and terrain as if they weren't there". No where in that does it specify that it applies only to movement happening in the movement phase, and GW never defines "move a model" as something specific to the movement phase. There are charge moves, pile in moves, consolidation moves, move after shooting, etc. Unless you want to say, because the rules for how to resolve attacks are specified in the shooting phase section of the rules, they don't apply to the fight phase Because that's what your saying. Or the fact that the "only reroll a die once" rule is located in the psychic phase section, it doesn't apply anywhere else? The game doesn't function at all if the rules stated only apply during the phase in which their explained. Blackcadian, Crimson Ghost IX and Panzer 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaae Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I didn't want to believe it either but I checked and it's true. The only time it mentions that having Fly let's you ignore models and terrain is in movement phase. The only time it mentions that models can't move through other models is in the movement phase. So, RAW, all charging units ignore other models so long as they are the charge target. Panzer, Morticon, Panda_Saurus_Rex and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Crimson Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Let’s wait and see what the rule team will determine. We are due for codex faq anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diagramdude Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Aaand /thread Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_Saurus_Rex Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 The rules very specifically state that close combat attacks are virtually identical to shooting attacks and even tells you the page on which to look it up. The only re-roll one dice rule is on the same page as the psychic phase but not within the psychic phase. All aspects of charging, pile-in, and consolidate have very specific rules on how you can move your models. Look gents I'm not happy about this either; I regularly play lists with 30+ jump pack models so this greatly effects the way I play the game but none of your arguments have been valid. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) No that's not RAW. That's not how the rules work or you would've to ignore EVERY movement related rule during the charge including moving through units (hint: you don't!). Edited January 13, 2018 by Morticon easy, please Crimson Ghost IX and Kallas 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CradleToGrave Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 How has 8th edition been out since June 2017, yet this argument is only now making its rounds on these forums? Flying models have existed since Day 1. It's like no one tried to charge with one until recently, and suddenly there are objections? What gives? Brother_Mike 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_b Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I'm trying to understand so the whole fly over screening models during the charge is a no go? This was talked about at length during a podcast recently how people were charging units behind screens by using fly. I'm still trying to comprehend. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I'm trying to understand so the whole fly over screening models during the charge is a no go? This was talked about at length during a podcast recently how people were charging units behind screens by using fly. I'm still trying to comprehend. Don't listen to it. Of course it's a go. Just some people taking the rules apart for no reason who say it's a no-go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Ghost IX Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Just gonna chime in and say "in my opinion" this is a bunch of attempted rules lawyering Malarkey. Jumping over things with a jump pack is fine. Play your 30+ dudes and have fun. Pay it no mind says I brother_b. Nobody I know or have seen plays it this way. Nor should they... until GW says otherwise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diagramdude Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I don't have the core rules in front of me but I think somewhere in the movement phase pages it says most movement happens in the movement phase but can happen in other phases as well Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I'd also argue that all other "specific phase" rules do just that, they specify the Phase, eg "when you pick a unit to move in the Movement Phase it may Advance". The rules for this question though just specify that they're for Moving. It then says that "if the datasheet for a model says it can FLY, it can move across models and terrain as if they were not there". It's not specific, it doesn't mention the Movement Phase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moostick Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I really wouldn't worry about what the Facebook page response says. They've been wrong several times before regarding rules, so until they officially FAQ it in an officially released document, what they say there means nothing. You'd think the people who operate that would learn their lesson by now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaae Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 All aspects of charging, pile-in, and consolidate have very specific rules on how you can move your models. Look gents I'm not happy about this either; I regularly play lists with 30+ jump pack models so this greatly effects the way I play the game but none of your arguments have been valid. You're right, which is why I refer you to my previous statement: I didn't want to believe it either but I checked and it's true. The only time it mentions that having Fly let's you ignore models and terrain is in movement phase. The only time it mentions that models can't move through other models is in the movement phase. So, RAW, all charging units ignore other models so long as they are the charge target. If anyone wants to stand on the grounds of "the phase specifically tells you how to execute moving", then I will point out a noticeable lack of any mention about models not being able to move through models in the charge phase. Now, we have two ways to handle this. Either say RAW, all charging models ignore other models for movement, or that a charge move acts similar to a movement phase move. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4979994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 How has 8th edition been out since June 2017, yet this argument is only now making its rounds on these forums? Flying models have existed since Day 1. It's like no one tried to charge with one until recently, and suddenly there are objections? What gives? Probably something to do with the premier jump-pack equipped army getting a codex and starting to murderize stuff on gaming tables both old and new in a flash of Red Fury, leaving the.... More inadequate forces salty at our unrivaled mobility and smashy-ness ;) Brother_Mike, Quixus, Are Verlo and 3 others 6 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4980063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_Saurus_Rex Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 So I looked it up and Toaae is correct. In the same vein that moving over models with the Fly keyword is only in the movement phase, the only time it mentions that you can't move through other models is also the movement phase. So RAW everyone can do it if you roll high enough. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4980203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 sigh... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4980210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palwatch Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Honestly in my shop we've been playing it that you can NOT move over models or terrain while charging. As written they are the rules. There is no other way to interpret them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4980266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Honestly in my shop we've been playing it that you can NOT move over models or terrain while charging. As written they are the rules. There is no other way to interpret them. Obviously there is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4980272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palwatch Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Ok. Must be simpler here Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343226-jump-pack-adjustment/#findComment-4980274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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