"Sisters of Battle are better than Space Marines"

[BitsHammer]

Thought this might get some appreciation here when I saw it because frankly it sums up the reasons why Sisters are more awesome than a Space Marines:

 

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

Sisters are mostly protected from the powers of chaos because they have had almost no lore or codex since 3rd edition, and no lore means you cant be corrupted if you cant play your army.

 

When even tau are getting corrupted by chaos because the lore is progressing (read The Greater Evil, or play Fire Warrior) you think the Sisters are going to stand so pure when they finally get books and codexes and their story can finally progress. The only faction that is pure from chaos taint are the GK and narrative wise they are pretty stagnant.

[Warpmiss]

At first I thought: "but those are the same reasons for Guard..."

 

Then he got to: "They [space Marines] suck at not falling to Chaos!!" I laughed my ass off. Loved the way he said it. And he's quite right. Gotta give it to the Sisters, they are very committed.

[Jacinda]

 The only faction that is pure from chaos taint are the GK

 

The Grey Knights of Khorne?

Yeah.  They're free of taint alright.

They are witches, the whole lot of 'em!

 

 

 

 

((in character rant is not intended to offend anyone))

[Commander Dawnstar]

When even tau are getting corrupted by chaos because the lore is progressing (read The Greater Evil...)

 

That was Genestealer Cults rather than Chaos, and we've seen Sisters have their own problems with those of late...

Edited January 11, 2018 by Commander Dawnstar

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

 

When even tau are getting corrupted by chaos because the lore is progressing (read The Greater Evil...)

 

That was Genestealer Cults rather than Chaos, and we've seen Sisters have their own problems with those of late...

 

I figured it was a genestealer cult, but the way things were described made it sound more like daemons considering a lot of the monstrosities in the book arent in the genestealer cultist units that I am aware of. I see it as going either way as chaos cultist or genestealer cultist. Chaos usually isnt interested in breeding hybrids like genestealers are, but there were a lot of monstrosities and hulking creatures described in the book that lend far more to chaos beasts.

 

But as to the lore of the sisters, there are more than a couple occasions where sisters and sisterhoods have fallen to chaos. its just that in the last 20 years we have had 1 codex in third edition and a couple books in that time period (and a few side stories) about the sisters and they do talk about sisters falling to chaos. its just that chaos is more interested in space marines since they are better vessels/tools for chaos than chaos sisters.

[ERJAK]

 

 

When even tau are getting corrupted by chaos because the lore is progressing (read The Greater Evil...)

 

That was Genestealer Cults rather than Chaos, and we've seen Sisters have their own problems with those of late...

 

I figured it was a genestealer cult, but the way things were described made it sound more like daemons considering a lot of the monstrosities in the book arent in the genestealer cultist units that I am aware of. I see it as going either way as chaos cultist or genestealer cultist. Chaos usually isnt interested in breeding hybrids like genestealers are, but there were a lot of monstrosities and hulking creatures described in the book that lend far more to chaos beasts.

 

But as to the lore of the sisters, there are more than a couple occasions where sisters and sisterhoods have fallen to chaos. its just that in the last 20 years we have had 1 codex in third edition and a couple books in that time period (and a few side stories) about the sisters and they do talk about sisters falling to chaos. its just that chaos is more interested in space marines since they are better vessels/tools for chaos than chaos sisters.

 

(A bit of a troll post, but goodness am I sick of the 'marines are the bestest how can primaris durdadur! discussion so I deserve this)

 

At the end of the day, literally HALF of all space marines fell to Chaos at the same time. Until such a point that that happens to another faction, space marines remain the biggest, dumbest, losers in all of 40k; toddling around from corrupting influence to accidentally releasing super-powerful daemons into the universe by being aggro dips**ts to any of the other major screw ups they've had since their inception.

 

From a lore standpoint, humanity would be a 1000% better off if the space marines had never existed. The emperor could have used normal guardsman to conquer the galaxy (admittedly a bit slower) and then when people fell to chaos it would have been person by person rather than 'hey half my standing military is shooting at my castle'.

 

Sisters are clearly the superior soldier and space marines should be purged for the chaos infested abhumans they are.

[BitsHammer]

Forceful possession and actively turning to Chaos and bowing in fealty to the Ruinous Powers are very different concepts. Even considering all the Sisters who may have actually joined Chaos, that's like, what? A hundred tops if we include all the fanfiction about it?

 

Compared to half of the Space Marine Legions who fell, plus whole chapters who have fallen since then (Crimson Slaughter, Astral Claws, ect, ect, ect) this is basically no body. You'd see more random civilians turn to Chaos in a day than you'd see Sisters ever turn.

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

Forceful possession and actively turning to Chaos and bowing in fealty to the Ruinous Powers are very different concepts. Even considering all the Sisters who may have actually joined Chaos, that's like, what? A hundred tops if we include all the fanfiction about it?

 

Compared to half of the Space Marine Legions who fell, plus whole chapters who have fallen since then (Crimson Slaughter, Astral Claws, ect, ect, ect) this is basically no body. You'd see more random civilians turn to Chaos in a day than you'd see Sisters ever turn.

A lot of marines are forcefully compelled or possessed. While I dont disagree with the fact that half of the space marine legions fell to chaos (whether through compelling or seduction) and lots of marines still fall to the corruption (even if Roboute Guilliman refuses to believe the fact that a lot of traitors came from successors to his ultramarines),

 

Now the amount of sisters who have fallen to the corruption of chaos is small (especially in comparison to civilians, guardsmen or even marines), I am saying that its partly true because there is so little lore surrounding them. We have less than a dozen books that even feature Sororitas, much less ones that are entirely about Sororitas. We have almost 50 books on just the horus heresy alone, not even including books about chaos marines themselves or anthology books like Let the Galaxy Burn.

 

When there has been almost no new lore on the sisters in a decade, its rather easy to claim that sisters are more immune to the corruption of chaos. If there had been a lot more official lore and stories to keep up with Sororitas since the last time they had a codex (which was 3rd edition) you would see ALOT more chaos sisters, especially now with the cicatrix maledictum and just how overwhelming chaos has become.

 

:cuss we have gotten more lore on the demiurg (squats) since 3rd edition than we have had on the sororitas.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Aqui
Spell the name correctly =][=

[BitsHammer]

We've gotten new lore on the Sisters. 5th edition had them recovering relics from a daemon infested Shrine world that had popped back out of the warp (arriving BEFORE the Grey Knights who use witchery to divine when Daemon threats will be coming) and getting out of the system with the relics before the Grey Knights arrived to system and blasted the planet to bits.

 

More recently it seems that the splintered remains of the Sisters of Silence post M36, in part, were claiming to be Sister of Battle orders and hunting witches on their own, making it so that the Sororitas were the only reason the Sisters of Silence managed to survive their exile from Terra mostly untouched.

 

We were also a major faction in the Gathering Storm (despite the lack of support for any new rules or models), and where in the Shield of Baal campaign (again, without new rules or models).

 

Sisters resisting corruption is a common theme in a lot of the things they appear in and even the maligned Daemontide fluff had Sisters resisting the corruption of Khorne and where killed more for pragmatism and witchery than any fault of the Sisters themselves.

 

On the flipside, a Marine resisting corruption (and exposure to a chunk of the Warp) in the Space Marine video game was seen as a sign of potential corruption due to their known history of falling to Chaos.

[ERJAK]

We've gotten new lore on the Sisters. 5th edition had them recovering relics from a daemon infested Shrine world that had popped back out of the warp (arriving BEFORE the Grey Knights who use witchery to divine when Daemon threats will be coming) and getting out of the system with the relics before the Grey Knights arrived to system and blasted the planet to bits.

 

More recently it seems that the splintered remains of the Sisters of Silence post M36, in part, were claiming to be Sister of Battle orders and hunting witches on their own, making it so that the Sororitas were the only reason the Sisters of Silence managed to survive their exile from Terra mostly untouched.

 

We were also a major faction in the Gathering Storm (despite the lack of support for any new rules or models), and where in the Shield of Baal campaign (again, without new rules or models).

 

Sisters resisting corruption is a common theme in a lot of the things they appear in and even the maligned Daemontide fluff had Sisters resisting the corruption of Khorne and where killed more for pragmatism and witchery than any fault of the Sisters themselves.

 

On the flipside, a Marine resisting corruption (and exposure to a chunk of the Warp) in the Space Marine video game was seen as a sign of potential corruption due to their known history of falling to Chaos.

Fall of Cadia is still the only non-novel book of 40k lore I've read cover to cover. It's not super well written but the SoB come off looking so cool that I freaking loved it. One of my favorite bits is at the end when they were hiking on that Ice planet and the guardsmen are all freezing to death and the Sisters are just singing hymns and having a grand old time.

[Atrus]

Not to mention the short story of the sisters omnibus.

 

where the sisters take down a "fallen sister".

Though given that everything that came there was from the mouth of a daemon, its safe to assume it is all lies and some cunning daemonic impostering to cast doubt on the value of faith....my flamer is primed for those who wish to confess their doubt on that and receive the emperors grace.

[Eddie Orlock]

Roughly seven and a half minutes in he's raving about there being no known examples Chaos Marines repenting. I got twoish. 1: It's canonical that some of the fallen realised what they'd done and just went to ground to avoid falling into darker ways. 2: Deathwatch Blackshield fluff heavily implies that some of them are repentant traitors. 3: Way, way, back in the old sensei stuff redemption was explicitly possible.

[Ezr91aeL]

He also forgot that Sisters of Battle belive so much in the Emperor that, even if he actually is not a real god, they still perform MIRACLES on the battlefield! Acts of Faith are only the simpliest example, when Saint Celestine is the most evident one. All simply by the power of their own will and of their faith.
 

Roughly seven and a half minutes in he's raving about there being no known examples Chaos Marines repenting. I got twoish. 1: It's canonical that some of the fallen realised what they'd done and just went to ground to avoid falling into darker ways. 2: Deathwatch Blackshield fluff heavily implies that some of them are repentant traitors. 3: Way, way, back in the old sensei stuff redemption was explicitly possible.

But the only redemption for the penitant heretic is a painless death, so if they still live they are not repeants.

[taikishi]

 

 

When even tau are getting corrupted by chaos because the lore is progressing (read The Greater Evil...)

 

That was Genestealer Cults rather than Chaos, and we've seen Sisters have their own problems with those of late...

 

I figured it was a genestealer cult, but the way things were described made it sound more like daemons considering a lot of the monstrosities in the book arent in the genestealer cultist units that I am aware of. I see it as going either way as chaos cultist or genestealer cultist. Chaos usually isnt interested in breeding hybrids like genestealers are, but there were a lot of monstrosities and hulking creatures described in the book that lend far more to chaos beasts.

 

But as to the lore of the sisters, there are more than a couple occasions where sisters and sisterhoods have fallen to chaos. its just that in the last 20 years we have had 1 codex in third edition and a couple books in that time period (and a few side stories) about the sisters and they do talk about sisters falling to chaos. its just that chaos is more interested in space marines since they are better vessels/tools for chaos than chaos sisters.

 

 

There are? In the canon lore I can find, only one Sister has ever fallen to Chaos. Even the Grey Knights have had more fall than that.

[BitsHammer]

Oh, we've had Grey Knights fall? I mean I know we had the one in the Grey Knights trilogy who went a little crazy so that he could fight off a Tzeentch Daemon that was trying to possess him to include becoming an arena champion on a Khorne held planet, but he eventually got better (though has a Khorne symbol branded onto his chest to get removed like an embarrassing tattoo), where there others?

 

Outside of Sisters the only faction I'd argue that is better at not falling to Chaos would be the Custodes. And seeing as they may be the pinnacle of what the Emperor was trying to achieve in bringing humanity forward, that's rather fair that they'd be less likely to fall to Chaos.

[taikishi]

Got looking after you asked, apparently the Bloodtide Returns has been retconned so the GK haven't fallen (yet), otherwise one could argue that entire incident was a form of Khorne Worship by the Grey Knights >.>

[Beams]

They were a few sisters who we're mindcontroller by Sabathiel, but to my knowledge they all either were killed or killed themsleves, and didn't actually fall to chaos.

[BitsHammer]

There are Sisters who are corrupted by Chaos in Daemonfuge but there it's being forcefully turned into a sphere made of the bodies of the entire order (The Screaming Cage I believe was the name) by Slaanesh, which they in turn used the connection with that god to free a single Sister from this fate and empower her with all the weaknesses of Slaanesh (leading to the eventual creation of the Stern Codex which sits in the Black Library) which seems to have seperated her from being a normal Sister (being known as the Thrice Born due to being effectively dead three times and coming back each time shows that she is/was possibly something similar to Celestine, though current Celestine lore seems to show that perhaps Stern didn't manage to ultimately survive this state)), and while there were Sisters that Stern fought against in the story they were either possessed or mislead by said possessed Sisters.

 

Basically, possession is more plausible than actually willingly falling for Sisters and those who escape possession have a habit of giving themselves the Emperor's Mercy to ensure it never happens again (see the video where he talks about Nurgle possessing Sisters).

 

I can think of two books where Sisters were definitely the antagonists and in one they were just brainless bodyguards who ignored the obvious corruption of the priest they were with (Blood and Iron IIRC the title correctly) and the other the order was being mislead by a Canoness with an Istvaanist (and even took this as far as having spikes in her head to ensure she was in a constant state of suffering as well), and while it's unusual for this view to be used outside of the Inquistion, it shows how much power and influence the Sisters have due to it being something she'd been practicing for a while (and arguably was right about since the protagonist of the story was the only survivor of an incident the Canoness allowed to happen to create someone like him).

 

So basically, even when we're the bad guys we're doing it due to being forced (due to possession and/or misinformation (see Vandire for a great example of the Sisters being mislead), due to bad writing, or because we've adopted radical ideologies. Pretty much never due to use adding spikes to our armour and suddenly becoming three times as metal/mental as we where before.

[Servant of Dante]

He also forgot that Sisters of Battle belive so much in the Emperor that, even if he actually is not a real god, they still perform MIRACLES on the battlefield! Acts of Faith are only the simpliest example, when Saint Celestine is the most evident one. All simply by the power of their own will and of their faith.

 

 

Roughly seven and a half minutes in he's raving about there being no known examples Chaos Marines repenting. I got twoish. 1: It's canonical that some of the fallen realised what they'd done and just went to ground to avoid falling into darker ways. 2: Deathwatch Blackshield fluff heavily implies that some of them are repentant traitors. 3: Way, way, back in the old sensei stuff redemption was explicitly possible.

But the only redemption for the penitant heretic is a painless death, so if they still live they are not repeants.

Note that this is subject to interpretation. Acts of faith have been presented both ways, and you can back up both a miraculous and a mundane representation.

 

Edit: I’ll say no more because it’s off topic . . .

 

Celestine on the other hand is super warpy in the FoC so I kinda pretend she doesn’t exist :P

 

I like Fulkes distinction between willing fall and forced fall. Sisters are (as far as I know) never show to be willingly corrupted. This sets us apart from basically all other Imperium factions except GK and I guess Custodes. Maybe Sisters of Silence; can you even have a chaos null?

Edited January 12, 2018 by Servant of Dante

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

 

He also forgot that Sisters of Battle belive so much in the Emperor that, even if he actually is not a real god, they still perform MIRACLES on the battlefield! Acts of Faith are only the simpliest example, when Saint Celestine is the most evident one. All simply by the power of their own will and of their faith.

Roughly seven and a half minutes in he's raving about there being no known examples Chaos Marines repenting. I got twoish. 1: It's canonical that some of the fallen realised what they'd done and just went to ground to avoid falling into darker ways. 2: Deathwatch Blackshield fluff heavily implies that some of them are repentant traitors. 3: Way, way, back in the old sensei stuff redemption was explicitly possible.

But the only redemption for the penitant heretic is a painless death, so if they still live they are not repeants.

Note that this is subject to interpretation. Acts of faith have been presented both ways, and you can back up both a miraculous and a mundane representation.

 

Edit: I’ll say no more because it’s off topic . . .

 

Celestine on the other hand is super warpy in the FoC so I kinda pretend she doesn’t exist

 

I like Fulkes distinction between willing fall and forced fall. Sisters are (as far as I know) never show to be willingly corrupted. This sets us apart from basically all other Imperium factions except GK and I guess Custodes. Maybe Sisters of Silence; can you even have a chaos null?

 

I do have to agree that I dont recall any lore in which a Sororitas has willingly fallen to chaos, its usually been compelled (by mind control) or possession.

 

While the lore HAS alluded to living saints being warp in nature but being imbued with the emperor's spirit/power in the same way that Legion of the Damned have been alluded to effectively being 'daemons' under the banner of the emperor.

 

Which I am perfectly fine with in the lore. The human belief in an 'entity' in the shape of the emperor of mankind, and the Sisters (whether unknowingly or ignorant) in their faith have imbued a sister with the power of warp belief (hey, it works for the orks and other xeno's have their own kind of miracles, why cant the sisters). Celestine and other living saints are belief made manifest. While the Legion of the Damned is the belief of grim determination (or revenge) in the face of utter destruction.

 

So I am willing to go with the idea that belief in effectively 1 warp entity (the god emperor) would make it incredibly difficult to willingly turn to another warp entity unless you were forced/possessed. While my lore on chaos isnt as strong as I would like, I cant think of a case where a beleiver/cultist/daemon/etc who was wholly for one chaos god decide to go to another chaos god for power.

 

 

As to nulls/blanks/soulless/gingers, I know chaos WANTS soulless to try and take them apart and figure a way to turn them into a weapon of chaos (like in space marine) but I think their pariah genes make them too resistant to the standard influences of chaos. It would certainly be weird for a pariah to go to chaos. The only chaos god that I could think of that would even take a pariah would be Khorne, but I dont know if chaos power could actually corrupt a soulless person. I want to say there was some old necron lore with the Pariah's that mentioned something about it back in the 3rd edition codex but I cant remember it enough to say anything solid about that lore. But since necron pariah's have been retconned its real difficult to say.

[BitsHammer]

Malal would like Paraihs due to being the Chaos god who wants to destroy Chaos, but that role seems to be more Nids thing now (being an army of insectoidish things that devour all).

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

Malal would like Paraihs due to being the Chaos god who wants to destroy Chaos, but that role seems to be more Nids thing now (being an army of insectoidish things that devour all).

I have never had an interest in playing a chaos army, but if they were to bring back Malal as an honest thing, and bring pariahs as an elite option that would be glorious. I would seriously consider starting up a Sons of Malice army with whatever Malal daemons at their disposal. I am not even joking, I would buy all the stuff first day.

 

I just love Malal as a concept as some kind of counterbalance to the forces of chaos (besides the emperor, because its not like the eldar gods are doing anything other than getting killed and the ork gods are too busy arguing whats better, dakka or smashing, and tyranids dont seem to be a threat to chaos considering the events of Baal).

[Willy Pete]

There was one thing I disagreed with him on.  Sisters armor is not 'nearly' as good as Marine armor, it is better.  It provides the same protection, and is thinner and lighter, thus allowing you more mobility.  (There might be some kind of force field generator in the boob plates.  That could  explain why they're so large. )

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

There was one thing I disagreed with him on.  Sisters armor is not 'nearly' as good as Marine armor, it is better.  It provides the same protection, and is thinner and lighter, thus allowing you more mobility.  (There might be some kind of force field generator in the boob plates.  That could  explain why they're so large. )

Sister armor is lighter because its not designed to enhance strength like space marine armor. in order to get the improved strength from power armor, you need the black carapace installed into your body to fully interface with the armor and enhance your strength. Sororitas power doesnt have the strength enhancement because they dont get the black carapace installed, so thats a lot of systems not installed in the armor allowing it to be smaller.

 

Space marine armor has a lot of technology, orbital communications and strength enhancement, filtration and environment systems (so they could fight in space or even underwater) that sororitas armor doesnt have. Sororitas power armor pretty much powers itself and has some local communication equipment on it but it doesnt have the environment and filtration systems, enhanced sensors and orbital comms that space marine power armor has. Not to mention space marine power armor can interface with weapon systems and other communication networks, giving them far more battlefield awareness.

 

So Sororitas get the 3+ armor save, but they dont get the +1 to strength or toughness like Astartes, not to mention tend to have less wounds on important models like HQ units.