Sanguinary Ancient as warlord: the best trait ?

[Brother Crimson]

I really start to think about using a sanguinary ancient as a warlord. I like captain hammer time but as I tend to use it as a missile I think I might go towards an ancient to run as warlord.

 

The idea is of course to have the FNP banner, maybe start him in the field to help devastators/hell blasters. Then later on, after I cleared a few high ap weapon team on the other side, the guard comes in and he follows them to make the final clearing.

 

As a generic character he gets access to all warlord trait and I wonder the best one to give him.

 

Artisan of war is always tempting but he only have 3 attacks, so it’s not as obvious as the DC captain.

 

The extra FNP is another interesting one but 6+ is not that huge.

 

The 6 ‘’ intervention is also cool one for when he babysit the shooters but I still have trouble to gauge how useful it will be.

 

I think the other three might not be as good in this case:

Fearless is redundant with the banner guard are base ld8. speed of the prim arch is kind of useless and the deny only works against some armies.

 

Is the something else I need to think of ?

 

What warlord trait is most useful for this guy?

[Shaezus]

Wouldn't the FNP trait stack with the banner? That would be pretty tasty. I also thought the ancient had 4 attacks, but that was based on a review I saw and my own dex is still in the post.

 

As a flexible babysitter he is not to be sniffed at. I would go with the FNP trait if they stack, if not then fearless aura because the banner only boosts LD by +1. Can see him working well with thiings liike Hellblasters and SG.

[Karhedron]

Unlike Lts, his reroll of 1s to wound only applies in the fight phase and not to shooting. If you want someone who can buff backfield units, a Company or Primaris ancient might be better.

 

I feel the best place for a Sanguinary Ancient as Warlord is leading the rest of the SG so they can benefit from the Heirs of Azkellon rule.

[Brother Crimson]

Unlike Lts, his reroll of 1s to wound only applies in the fight phase and not to shooting. If you want someone who can buff backfield units, a Company or Primaris ancient might be better.

 

I feel the best place for a Sanguinary Ancient as Warlord is leading the rest of the SG so they can benefit from the Heirs of Azkellon rule.

The goal is to lead the SG but before they strike in, give a bit of durability to devastators that are usually priority targets.

Wouldn't the FNP trait stack with the banner? That would be pretty tasty. I also thought the ancient had 4 attacks, but that was based on a review I saw and my own dex is still in the post.

 

As a flexible babysitter he is not to be sniffed at. I would go with the FNP trait if they stack, if not then fearless aura because the banner only boosts LD by +1. Can see him working well with thiings liike Hellblasters and SG.

The FNP stacks with the banner and might be a great thing.

[Brother Aether]

 

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The FNP stacks with the banner and might be a great thing.

 

If this is true, let's see (math might be was off here so it has been edited):

FNP 4+, rerolling 1's

(0.5 + (0.1667 * 0.5)) = 0.583 ~ 58% chance to survive each wound with FNP

 

Factoring in a 2+ base save, that's not too shabby...

 

Edit 1:

6+++ rerolling 1's / 5+++

 

6+++ Rerolling 1's = (1/6 + (1/6*1/6) = 7/36 = 0.194

 

Factor in the 5+++ afterward = (7/36 + (29/36 * 1/3)) = (0.194 + (0.806 * 0.333)) = 0.459 or 45.9% chance to make one of the FNP saves.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Brother Aether

[Panzer]

 

 

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The FNP stacks with the banner and might be a great thing.

 

If this is true, let's see (math might be off here so double-check):

FNP 4+, rerolling 1's

(0.5 + (0.1667 * 0.5)) = 0.583 ~ 58% chance to survive each wound with FNP

 

Factoring in a 2+ base save, that's not too shabby...

 

That's not how FnP effects stack...

You get a 5+ and a 6+ where you can re-roll 1s. Not a 4+ with re-rolling 1s.

[Indefragable]

Personally, in a power armor army, I am not a fan of any warlord that doesn’t have a native invuln. There are way too many assassin (role, not necessarily Vindicares et al) out there to make mince meat. And a Sang Anc you want to be supporting your dudes, not be supported/protected by them.

 

That being said, I would actually lean towards Soulwarden on paper. As a banner bearer, especially with the Standard of Sacrifice, you don’t want to use him as a beat stick. As such, I would lean towards Soulwarden to give you some further protection against something that can be VERY deadly: psychic powers. And if you face something without psychic powers, you simply pick another one. Heroic Bearing would be #2 for me because it removes an entire burden from your units. Yes, they would be Ld9 with the banner already, but this would mean that ALL of your units in 6” never have to worry about Morale of any sort at all for any reason...and that’s huge in 8th! And we’re not even talking about Night Lord or Dark Angel shenanigans.

 

3rd choices would be things that keep him alive longer or “mess up” the formula of the game like always striking first.

 

 

My order of preference for WLT for banner-bearer characters*:

 

1. Soulwarden (if your enemy doesn’t have Psyker a, move down the list)

2. Heroic Bearing

3. Gift of Foresight

4. Speed of the Primarch

5. Artisan of War

6. Selfless Valour

 

 

 

 

 

-The FNP stacks with the banner and might be a great thing.

If this is true, let's see (math might be off here so double-check):

FNP 4+, rerolling 1's

(0.5 + (0.1667 * 0.5)) = 0.583 ~ 58% chance to survive each wound with FNP

 

Factoring in a 2+ base save, that's not too shabby...

That's not how FnP effects stack...

You get a 5+ and a 6+ where you can re-roll 1s. Not a 4+ with re-rolling 1s.

If the Sang ANC fails his 2+ armor save...

 

He gets a 6+ Gift of Foresight save, re-rolling 1’s. Should he fail that...

 

He gets the 5+ save from the banner.

 

Then if you have Company Vets around...

 

...and a Sang Priest...

[Kallas]

Standard of Sacrifice plus Gift of Foresight combines for a roughly 45% chance to save a wound.

 

(0.16*0.16)+0.16 = 0.1856 for GoF

(0.66*0.1856)+0.33 = 0.4525 for GoF saves after a failed SoS (plus SoS itself).

[Panzer]

 

 

 

 

-The FNP stacks with the banner and might be a great thing.

If this is true, let's see (math might be off here so double-check):

FNP 4+, rerolling 1's

(0.5 + (0.1667 * 0.5)) = 0.583 ~ 58% chance to survive each wound with FNP

 

Factoring in a 2+ base save, that's not too shabby...

That's not how FnP effects stack...

You get a 5+ and a 6+ where you can re-roll 1s. Not a 4+ with re-rolling 1s.

If the Sang ANC fails his 2+ armor save...

 

He gets a 6+ Gift of Foresight save, re-rolling 1’s. Should he fail that...

 

He gets the 5+ save from the banner.

 

Then if you have Company Vets around...

 

...and a Sang Priest...

 

You can actually decide whether you want to take the 5+ or the 6+ first. Not that it would make much of a difference. :P

[BloodTzar]

Just curiouse if sang priest can revive dead ancient? 

 

 

 

 

 

-The FNP stacks with the banner and might be a great thing.

If this is true, let's see (math might be off here so double-check):
FNP 4+, rerolling 1's
(0.5 + (0.1667 * 0.5)) = 0.583 ~ 58% chance to survive each wound with FNP

Factoring in a 2+ base save, that's not too shabby...

That's not how FnP effects stack...
You get a 5+ and a 6+ where you can re-roll 1s. Not a 4+ with re-rolling 1s.

If the Sang ANC fails his 2+ armor save...

He gets a 6+ Gift of Foresight save, re-rolling 1’s. Should he fail that...

He gets the 5+ save from the banner.

Then if you have Company Vets around...

...and a Sang Priest...

 

 

Just curious if Sang Priest can revive dead Ancient?

[Panzer]

I don't see how. When the Ancient is dead there's no unit the Priest can target to revive a model anymore.

[Aothaine]

I agree with Indefragable. Soulwarden is what I would take on him. It might not be useful 100% of the time but it can really save you in bad situations. Second to that I would take the auto-pass morale I think everyone underestimates the ability to auto pass morale.

[Indefragable]

I don't see how. When the Ancient is dead there's no unit the Priest can target to revive a model anymore.

Company Vet eats a wound on a 2+ AFTER the character fails all other saves. Sanguinary Priest revives Company Vet. You write condolence letter after your opponent jumps off a bridge.

 

Delicious, delicious, French-imported cheese:

 

Capt in Cataphractii armor

Gift of Foresight WLT

Standard of Sacrifice

Company Vets

Brother Corbulo

 

Capt has 2+/3++/6+++ re-roll 1’s/5++++ save.

Should he fail, Company Vets can eat a Wound on a 2+.

Brother Corbs gets a re-rollable 4+ to revive a dead model.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Indefragable

[Panzer]

 

I don't see how. When the Ancient is dead there's no unit the Priest can target to revive a model anymore.

Company Vet eats a wound on a 2+ AFTER the character fails all other saves. Sanguinary Priest revives Company Vet. You write condolence letter after your opponent jumps off a bridge.

 

Except that BloodTzar wasn't talking about Company Vets.

[Brother Aether]

 

 

 

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The FNP stacks with the banner and might be a great thing.

 

If this is true, let's see (math might be off here so double-check):

FNP 4+, rerolling 1's

(0.5 + (0.1667 * 0.5)) = 0.583 ~ 58% chance to survive each wound with FNP

 

Factoring in a 2+ base save, that's not too shabby...

 

That's not how FnP effects stack...

You get a 5+ and a 6+ where you can re-roll 1s. Not a 4+ with re-rolling 1s.

 

 

Thanks, sfPanzer – forgot about that. Not as powerful, but still not too bad.

[Panzer]

Delicious, delicious, French-imported cheese:

 

Capt in Cataphractii armor

Gift of Foresight WLT

Standard of Sacrifice

Company Vets

Brother Corbulo

 

Capt has 2+/3++/6+++ re-roll 1’s/5++++ save.

Should he fail, Company Vets can eat a Wound on a 2+.

Brother Corbs gets a re-rollable 4+ to revive a dead model.

 

Make him a Deathcompany Captain to improve the 6+++ to a 5+++ as well! :P

[Kallas]

Make him a Deathcompany Captain to improve the 6+++ to a 5+++ as well! :P

That would make him ineligible for the Standard of Sacrifice, as he'd have the Black Rage Keyword.

[Panzer]

 

Make him a Deathcompany Captain to improve the 6+++ to a 5+++ as well!

That would make him ineligible for the Standard of Sacrifice, as he'd have the Black Rage Keyword.

 

Ah damn I knew I was forgetting something!

[Brother Crimson]

I agree with Indefragable. Soulwarden is what I would take on him. It might not be useful 100% of the time but it can really save you in bad situations. Second to that I would take the auto-pass morale I think everyone underestimates the ability to auto pass morale.

Just to be sure do you determine warlord and trait after the opponent revealed his army?

 

Because auto pass morale vs night lord, deny versus big psycher are good but I’m stuck with these in a game where there is no leadership penalty or no psycher I’d rather have an extra FNP.

[Panzer]

 

I agree with Indefragable. Soulwarden is what I would take on him. It might not be useful 100% of the time but it can really save you in bad situations. Second to that I would take the auto-pass morale I think everyone underestimates the ability to auto pass morale.

Just to be sure do you determine warlord and trait after the opponent revealed his army?

 

Because auto pass morale vs night lord, deny versus big psycher are good but I’m stuck with these in a game where there is no leadership penalty or no psycher I’d rather have an extra FNP.

 

Depends I guess. On tournaments you write it on your list and keep that one for the whole event. In friendly games unless something else got said you can pretty much decide on the fly during the deployment phase. Same with psychic powers etc.

[Brother Crimson]

Yeah I was asking more for official matched plays.

We don’t play often with broken/super competitive lists in my area but lot of people are by the book when is comes to army building and matched play.