Scions in a gunline

[lash144]

Hey folks,

 

so I'm playing a classic Cadian gunline, support by some Mechanicus elements for AA and long range anti tank.

I want to include some BS +3 anti infantry shooting to my army and I'm looking at some Scions with HSVG. Anyone played them in this more static way? Did you still drop them in or just deployed them in cover?

Are Officers worth it for those squads? I don't know if a simple reroll 1's will be enough, but the Tempestus order seems pretty sweet for targeting things up to T7, cause those still get wounded on a 5+.

Also what's with squad composition: 5 vs 10 man or even command squads? (Not quite sure about those, cause these units aren't really suicide units like with plasma.

 

Or should I look somewhere else that kind of shooting? Maybe Vets, they could take a HWT and scale pretty well with the Cadian take aim order. But plasma is so expensive for such a squishy unit and all the other Special Weapons seem pretty bad tbh ^^.

[Tallarn Commander]

When I want an infantry unit with BS3+ anti-infantry shooting that stays back with my firebase las-plas Red Platoon, I take 4-trooper command squads with standard, heavy bolter, and sniper rifle.

 

These units are cheap, put out some good anti-infantry firepower, and they provide a nice morale buff. They are very squishy, but at 37 points a pop I don't really care if they die. Of course, you need 1 officer for every command squad, but I usually have plenty of officers.

[WarriorFish]

I don't think Scions are good for a gunline directly - Guardsmen would be better holding the metaphorical line. I'd use them with their drop as trouble consultants; fill a breach or cap an objective or simply to drop them to cause mischief where my opponent doesn't want it! As a very static army their (one off) mobility is likely far more valuable than a few more troopers manning the walls.

[lash144]

I don't think Scions are good for a gunline directly - Guardsmen would be better holding the metaphorical line. I'd use them with their drop as trouble consultants; fill a breach or cap an objective or simply to drop them to cause mischief where my opponent doesn't want it! As a very static army their (one off) mobility is likely far more valuable than a few more troopers manning the walls.

 

So I might consider dropping them with HSVG. Any experience with those? Have only tried plasma yet, but it´s way to expensive after the nerf.

[WarriorFish]

Afraid not, the HSVG is a new fangled gun for me Good for a focused squad but generally the rest of Guard do that well enough and Stormies have always been good for deploying special weapons. That's not to say it's a bad idea of course, especially as 8th has changed much so I reckon they're better now but I don't have enough information to say any more. Perhaps someone with recent experience can pitch in, I know we have some seasoned Stormtrooper commanders in the barracks

[ImperialSquishiness]

HSVG are worth it IMO especially against GEQ/MEQ.

I use my Scions purely for objective grabbing purposes and deep striking behind enemy lines for annoyance/victory point/drawing firepower away from everything else purposes.

[lash144]

HSVG are worth it IMO especially against GEQ/MEQ.

I use my Scions purely for objective grabbing purposes and deep striking behind enemy lines for annoyance/victory point/drawing firepower away from everything else purposes.

 

Are you running 5 or 10 man squads for this purpose?

 

 

 

A little bit off topic:

Anyone using voxes?

[ImperialSquishiness]

I was running a 10 man squad. Now I use 1 or 2 5 man squads, depending on points.

 

Unless you're taking a tempestus army or a tempestor prime, no point in shelling out for a Vox.

Edited January 13, 2018 by ImperialSquishiness

[lash144]

Also a rule question: Are you able to benefit from the Stormtrooper doctrine if you drop in HSVG? It says on a roll 6+, but by dropping those guys in you suffer a -1 on the HSVG.

[ImperialSquishiness]

You can only take advantage of that rule when taking a tempestus detachment. A squad in any other regimental detachment don't benefit from it.

[lash144]

Sure, but it's no problem for me to include a separate detachment, even it's just a patrol.

But back to my rule question?

[WarriorFish]

The state of voxes (and my ~8 vox models gathering dust) is best not mentioned If you mean specifically Scion voxes there is more scope for their use, but I'd say only if you planned on dropping several squads across the board? That said, think I'd rather have more models still.

 

As for the 6+, that's after modifiers as far as I'm aware so no extra shots - will be worth checking in the OR as it's not something I've come across in game yet

[ImperialSquishiness]

I find voxes are only useful with regular guard squads personally.

 

As for the -1, I think the modifier stops you rolling 6s on the turn you land.

[Silas7]

We really should ask GW to make HSVGs assault types.

[Zuri Prime]

Voxes can be worth it if you plan to spread out your guard in a non gunline manner, like for holding multiple objectives or mech guard. They should be 2 or 3 points instead of 5 though.

 

HSVGs are pretty excellent for a cheap Scion command squad or with reg Scion troopers. Got MEQs in cover? Doesn't matter. TEQs on the field? Pepper them. It's what a Multilaser should be.

[Arganias]

I have used them as force multiplies for my Elysians. Fluff wise they usually have organic stormtroopers. 

 

I use Kasrkin models and needed to convert my HSVG. Since I didn't have enough parts at the time, I run a 10 man squad with 2 HSVG and 2 Plasma guns. I also run another 10 man with grenade launchers, and one 5 man with two meltaguns. I used them in my last game to dive deep into a Khorne Daemon's pocket in his deployment zone, backed up with drop sentinels and Elysian Vets from a Valkyrie, while an infantry squad dropped in for more support. It was pretty effective and really disrupted his army. If my dice were not being my worst enemy I might have been able to pull out the win.

 

In short, I love the HSVG, but I feel that stormtroopers are a very offensive unit with their shorter range. I usually don't run voxes on them, just a Tempestor with a rod t give two orders since the squads are going to be running close to each other.

[noigrim]

I'll try some scions next time

2x temp cmd and 2x cmd squads with plasma, the squads drop and kill stuff while the commander drops on top of objectives (or orders himself there) to gaint points mid game if cards, last turn if not, I'll keep one also to get linebreaker

 

the rest of the army will be lasguns, devastators and a command detachment of russes

[NatBrannigan]

Best part about scions is the mobility by keeping them in deep strike reserve. You can put them exactly where you need them and they're great because of that. I'm not sure for the points they'd be worth it if you had them as part of a gunline though.

 

I run a command squad with HSVG's and think they're great. Probably not as good as Plasma Guns if you bother with maths but then nothing in the game is... Then a squad with melta and a squad with plasma (normally just 5 man). I always take an officer as well, well worth it. Again the best thing about them is the mobility so if I was looking at something for a gunline I'd go for more Infantry Squads. Hard to beat an Infantry Squad, you'll  never regret taking them!