BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 What if a rift were opened to a parallel universe and the alt Sanguinius came over ? Rob P 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4988998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob P Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 What if a rift were opened to a parallel universe and the alt Sanguinius came over ? Some people might think this is a bit far fetched (what is 'far fetched' in 40k? ), but the Horus Heresy series did have an opportunity to do an inconsistent timeline/unreliable narrator /parallel universe/the warp did it! thing when the some of the timeline problems arose with Valdor being on Terra for Blood Games and the issue with The Outcast Dead, but sadly they were explained away. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4989006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 The Dornian Heresy was a great parallel timeline Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4989030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 We know that some ships get lost in the Warp and end up appearing at different times like that one that was from the past. But there’s nothing about alternate universes so it would be a bit of a stretch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4989041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 It’s all quite a stretch if you ask me . Rob P 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4989062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I have no problems with Sangy returning. Frankly I would like all the primarchs to return to the setting except for Horus. Horus was not just killed but his soul was obliterated to keep him from coming back. That leaves all the dead primarchs in play. GW/BL doesn't even need some great cartoonish plot device. They already have one in the existing lore: the way the warp works. Living saints come back all the time for the Imperium. Chaos has demons that "die" in the material world and can be summoned back to the material world. As long as there is some warp ghost of that creature in the warp the possibility exists of their returning to the material plane. That is why Horus can't come back because there's no warp ghost or echo of him to call back. But the rest of them? Yes. We've already seen that in the lore actually: Master of Mankind has the Emperor summoning his own warp entities to help him out. Ferrus Manus clearly is one of them that shows up after death to fight. All you need is some "Acts of Faith" from the Imperium side to "summon" the dead primarchs back. With how much warp energy is coursing through the galaxy in the current setting it even makes it easier. Not only can they come back but with so much warp juice flowing around they can stay in the material plane indefinitely. If they are "killed" again? No big deal. They just get resummoned back like any demon primarch would. This method is probably the easiest way to bring back dead primarchs without upsetting the current lore too much. The death of Sangy and Ferrus meant so much to their Legions that they would still "feel it" but you could still have the "angels" of Sangy and Ferrus hanging around in the material plane. BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4990300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Eh, Curze should stay dead too, his whole thing was that his death proves that he was right in what he did. Kinda cheapens the point if he comes back from it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4990534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 Ferrus, Curze, and Sang shoud not return IMO If Sang absolutely had to return, I'd prefer that he return in a greatly changed form...like my hybrid Sang/Seth idea Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4990556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Keep Sanguinius, if he absolutely has to, as the Warp-echo of Sanguinius, strengthened by the worship during the Sanguinala turning "him" into something he never really was. It's not Sanguinius returning, it's the memory of Sanguinius, reflected in the Warp, changed by 10,000 years of worship and praise, until it's not really him anymore, but an idealised concept of what he was, as viewed by the Imperial populace. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4990602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 Or maybe a shard of Sang's soul is merged with Dante or some other BA or BA successor? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4990751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 You can’t just have dead Primarchs “summoned” from the Warp and stay in the materium indefinitely. Firstly we’ve never seen any Primarchs that have this ability (only Vulkan is perpetual) and even Daemon Primarchs are unable to stay in the material world indefinitely. I believe it takes constant worship. There’s also an obvious difference with Guilliman coming back as he had an actual body and wasn’t completely dead at the time. Someone like Ferrus has no body to speak of. It was torn up and shredded. I’m all for some (some) Primarchs returning but for me it has to be in as convincing a way as possible that makes sense in the setting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4990754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDarth151 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 You can’t just have dead Primarchs “summoned” from the Warp and stay in the materium indefinitely. Why not? Regular mortals seem to be doing just fine, as far as resurrections go. I’m all for some (some) Primarchs returning but for me it has to be in as convincing a way as possible that makes sense in the setting. Resurrections have been a thing for a while now. As in years. As in over a decade. They have been performed by Chaos worshippers, Xenos or the apparent intervention of the God Emperor. Bulwyf and BLACK BLŒ FLY 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4990762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Actually, you absolutely can have primarchs or any other warp ghost "summoned" back to the material world. Demons, Demon Primarchs and Living Saints are "summoned" back to the material world on a regular basis. As I said in my post the current Dark Imperium timeline has so much warp energy running through the galaxy that demons and demon primarchs can maintain their material forms indefinitely. It stands to reason the same logic would apply to Imperium "angels" or returned dead loyal primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4990959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 So they'd have to make dead loyalist primarchs living saints after 10,000 years of absence Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4991007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Anything is possible... if they were to do this hopefully it'd be something that comes across as plausible . Bulwyf 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4991231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 As I said, this is the least lore altering approach to bringing back the dead primarchs. The mechanism of how the warp works in regards to summoning enables GW to bring back all of the dead primarchs (except Horus) in this approach. As to why it would come after 10k years of silence...no one that I know of has been praying for the return of those primarchs. The Living saints come back as a miracle from the Emperor. After seeing the trouble the Imperium is in now that Demon Primarchs are running loose all over the galaxy, why wouldn't the Emperor bring the dead primarchs back to life? I am not suggesting this is the only way GW could bring dead primarchs back but IMO it is the easiest and most lore friendly way to do it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4991306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaugamela Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Well, I'll offer my two cents. First and foremost, I think that Sanguinius should not return. It seriously decreases the feeling of despair and hopelessness of 40K if suddenly we have dead Primarchs popping up all the time. GW left several ways for a Sanguinius-like character to appear. The Primaris Marines supposedly have more of the organs of the Primarchs in them. This means their bodies are physically more similar to the bodies of the Primarchs. Well, the Blood Angels in their initiation rites still drink Sanguinius blood... So in a way, Sanguinius is alive in all of them (and their successor chapters), and this is probably one of the reasons behind the Black Rage. It's already been hinted at that the Sanguinor may be a fragment of Sanguinius soul. Much like Magnus soul was shattered and a shard of it was merged with a Thousand Sons Legionnaire to create Janus it is possible that the same could happen between the Sanguinor and a Blood Angels Space Marine. Now my theory is this: Dante would be the first Space Marine to be upgraded to a Primaris by Cawl as an honour to be bestowed to the oldest Space Marine not-interred in a Dreadnought. The only Space Marine looked at as an equal by Guilliman. However, due to his age, and the nature of the Blood Angels gene-seed something goes wrong... Dante sprouts wings and is completely lost to the Black Rage. The process of transforming an old Blood Angel that suffers from the Red Thirst and Black Rage gene flaws had a dramatic effect, paired to the upgrade to Primaris. Mephiston and a few members of his retinue manage to extract Dante, and flee with him towards Baal... Some whacky Chaos shenanigans occurs, with Khorne being very interested in claiming Dante to himself. This leads to a desperate fight all the way to Sanguinius sanctuary. In here Kha'Banda manifests and as a desperate measure the BA's unleash Dante... With all this Warp stuff going around, and the desperation of the situation, the Sanguinor appears. However, this time something goes awry... The Sanguinor starts to merge with Primaris-Enraged-Dante. A new beautifully angelical creature appears, and quickly dispatches Kha'Banda. A Sanguinor-Dante Primarch is born. Someone that has a lot more memories from Sanguinius than all the Blood Angels (besides the moment when Horus killed him), but that has all the memories of Dante. This Primarch is NOT Sanguinius. He remembers fragments of Sanguinius memories. Some interactions with the other Primarchs. He is greatly afflicted by the Red Thirst, and the events of Sanguinius death are still the primary memories that are retained from the Primarch. There is still nobility there, not from Sanguinius but from Dante. This would be a Primarch that is easier to enrage than Sanguinius was, and more brutal when enraged. Excluding that, he sees himself as successor to Sanguinius and keeps the Blood Angels traditions going. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4991436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 There must be a reason why The Emperor doesn’t just resurrect his boney bum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4991440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH79 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 There must be a reason why The Emperor doesn’t just resurrect his boney bum. #reasons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4991552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinstryfe Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Given that we lack a detailed description of exactly how Sanguinius died (other than by Horus' claw), I've long held the personal headcanon that he's basically in a near death state, but not 100% dead. The black rage can be him psychically broadcasting that he's been locked in that moment for ten thousand years, and the Sanguinor a psychic projection to aid his sons when he can't. Add some blood back into his body, like the OP suggested, and maybe it'd be enough to heal him. Not saying it's better if that happens, but I think his death was vague enough that there's ways around it if or when GW wants. BLACK BLΠFLY, Gaugamela and Bulwyf 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4991626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Well, I'll offer my two cents. First and foremost, I think that Sanguinius should not return. It seriously decreases the feeling of despair and hopelessness of 40K if suddenly we have dead Primarchs popping up all the time. Sorry but I find this a ridiculous reason. This could easily increase the despair and hopelessness felt by all CSM. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4991668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDarth151 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Well, I'll offer my two cents. First and foremost, I think that Sanguinius should not return. It seriously decreases the feeling of despair and hopelessness of 40K if suddenly we have dead Primarchs popping up all the time. And that's a bad thing? BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4991685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) There must be a reason why The Emperor doesn’t just resurrect his boney bum. The old background, way, way back, basically had that the Golden Throne was keeping the Emperor in his current state, that he would actually be reincarnated/reach actual God-hood, etc, if he actually died. Currently, I think it's supposed to be basically the same thing, that he could reincarnate/resurrect if he died, but that he's a ) keeping the Astronomican focussed, and b ) the only thing keeping the Imperial Webway shut and stopping Daemons overrunning Terra. Edited January 24, 2018 by Lord_Caerolion Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4991789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 "First and foremost, I think that Sanguinius should not return. It seriously decreases the feeling of despair and hopelessness of 40K if suddenly we have dead Primarchs popping up all the time." I personally do not care about maintaining hopelessness in the setting...but I do think some sacrifices should not be undermined. Sanguinius should remain a Christ-like figure. He gave everything to give the Emperor a better chance of beating Horus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4991820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDarth151 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 "First and foremost, I think that Sanguinius should not return. It seriously decreases the feeling of despair and hopelessness of 40K if suddenly we have dead Primarchs popping up all the time." I personally do not care about maintaining hopelessness in the setting...but I do think some sacrifices should not be undermined. Sanguinius should remain a Christ-like figure. He gave everything to give the Emperor a better chance of beating Horus. Too late. I mean, really. As far as meaningful sacrifices go, the one performed by Sanguinius is really, really, really not impressive. BLACK BLΠFLY and Bulwyf 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343296-my-idea-of-how-sang-could-return/page/2/#findComment-4991863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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