Primaris Chapter: Which is best, Raven Guard / Blood Angels?

[Dracos]

Dipping back into 40k after years away due to the new Primaris models. I happen to think they look good and honestly should be easier to paint for a man now over 50. I use to play competitively at Games Day and RT tournaments and while those days are long gone in favor of fun and cool, part of me still desires to put my best foot forward when one bothers to keep score. 

 

So the following question is muddied to say the least.

 

Which Chapter do you think makes a Primaris-only based Chapter the most competitive?

 

I say muddied because one can see right away Primaris aren't going to fall into the cheese list the Tyranids use to be back in the day (yeah that long ago  I guess :)) But still there is going to be a "best" combination of Strategms, Warlord and Chapter Traits that are most effective for a Primaris-only based army and in my opinion its either Raven Guard or Blood Angels.

 

Raven Guard, because their rules seem to enhance an army that seems focused on shooting and has maneuvering issues. I also have a bias for the RG feel of a more "realistic" special forces unit than simulated by the tactics of the other Space Marine Chapters.

 

Blood Angels is my second choice and again I have an admitted bias. I've never liked most of the Blood Angel themes and images of blood thirsty almost vampiric slaughters (I said it was bias ) Research here so far has indicated that the Primaris (as of now) are not susceptible to the Black Rage and that almost has a feeling of hope and redemption to it that interest me. In game, Primaris are even better at melee making them even more balanced tactically than regular Space Marines. Something I would never had thought possible of a Blood Angel based Chapter.

 

I'm not asking thoughts on which is best for my play style. That would be totally different conversation and less useful to the community as a whole. Also ... anyone wanting to suggest another Chapter please feel free to add them to the conversation ... except for Ultramarines please. Bobby G has been discussed ad nauseum hasn't he?

Edited January 13, 2018 by Inquisitor Dracos

[Bryan Blaire]

From what we've been told, Blood Angels Primaris are not susceptible to the Black Rage at this time. There have been hints that not everything has cropped up with what Primaris might have lurking under the surface for some of the Legion blood lines, most specifically for the Blood Angels.

[Firepower]

Well, black is sexy, and there is no Primaris Death Company.

 

Nuff said.

[Race Bannon]

Well, black is sexy, and there is no Primaris Death Company.

 

Nuff said.

See, there is logic, then there is truth.

[Dracos]

Such ... analysis 

 

I waasss thinking more along the lines of something like ... Does the Raven Guard combinations enhance the Primaris long range abilities for greater overall effectiveness than the Blood Angel unique traits and characters by improving their melee abilities ... but yes

 

Black is definitely sexy  

[Claws and Effect]

The Raven Guard chapter tactic gives -1 to hit outside 12".

 

And their strategem, Strike

From The Shadows, gives you the ability to deploy any units you want to be close (Like Aggressors).

 

For Primaris, I'd go Raven Guard, but I'm admittedly a little biased.

 

If you want to be a little different, look into some of the RG successors. The Black Guard are an RG successor that emphasise firepower.

[CaptainCaveman87]

I realise it wasn't in your initial picks but dark angels have a very good stratagem that work well primaris

 

Weapons of the Dark ages - gives plasma plus one damage. Which when combined with hellblasters and plasceptors can have Brutal effects.

 

And although he isn't strictly primaris Azrael gives all infantry models within 6" a +4 invul save along with rerolls.

 

Azrael with 10man hellblasters squad(s) with a Lt and ancient is pretty brutal, put a squad of aggressors in front for protection and you got a pretty solid fire base. Probably won't win any tournaments but it's solid nonetheless.

[templargdt]

Ravenguard is your best choice for Primaris.  The CT affects all the models except the Repulsor, and they are shooting units trying to survive.  -1 to hit is huge for that.  And it gives you the Ravenguard alternative deployment choice.  It's absolutely your best bet.  

[Race Bannon]

See, there is logic, then there is the truth.

 

^_^

[Ishagu]

I think BA primaris are awesome simply because all units have respectable CC attack volumes, but RG can deploy in such a way as to mitigate the need for transports.

 

If you plan to use Repulsors I'd go BA.

[breng77]

I'll be the annoying guy and say "why not both?"

 

Different abilities are better for different units.

 

For pure primaris and sticking to one chapter though I think raven guards is best

[deathspectersgt7]

Raven Guard. 

[Brother Crimson]

As of now raven guard or salamander are best bet for all primaris IMO.

 

However if they ever release melee inceptor or jump pack gravis captain then blood angels would be good but otherwise you lose a lot by not being able to use JP stratagem.

[Cap'm Heckus]

Played my DIY all-Primaris force (Badgers) as Blood Angels today against DE. Spent most of the game wishing I had stuck with imperial fists or salamanders chapter tactics. Even with Reivers and incepters I still didn’t get many opportunities to get in melee combat and relied mostly on my shooting.

[Blindhamster]

I have played BA pure primaris since 8th ed came out.

 

Have loved it.

 

Upon wings of fire is cool on inceptors. All primaris units are a threat I'm melee with BA due to red thirst and respectable attack counts.

 

-1 to hit is pretty amazing though.

[Dracos]

I'm sensing quite the theme here. Be it logic of truth there is heavy lean toward Raven Guard. Which does not upset me at all :) I do wish there was a less expensive transport option than Repulsor because it would become a more interesting discussion. If I were one to spam then Hellblasters would make the Dark Angel choice a gimme, alas "effective" or not I just couldn't play that way, even if they were troop choices. Which they are not.

 

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and ideas. When your decision is flip of a coin (for various reasons) getting community input helps.

 

I wanted this Chapter to be a partial homage to the US military and the arena they have served in the past 15 years. I'm going to use a desert yellow/khaki color for the head/torso/arms/legs. I was going to use a dragon (dark) red for the pauldrons and backpack but might rethink that. The red with blue trim or highlights was suppose to be a heavy nod toward he US Marines but doesn't quite line up as. Raven Guard successor does it? Black doesn't work for me though . Just not a color I like. Maybe use the green that the Raptors use instead? More things to ponder.

 

I have the beginnings of some chapter fluff sketched out (need to research Indomitus Crusade more though). Where would be best place to start that thread?

[Race Bannon]

Successors do not necessarily need to mimic their primogenitors ^_^ Use the colors you want because the rules don't care :lol:

 

In fact, you could even use the BA rules every other game if you wish.

[Blindhamster]

for what it's worth, now BA have power swords on their intercessor sergeants, their melee threat level went up a bit (remember - wounding on 3s vs MEQ, wounding on 2s vs GEQ, wounding everything on at worst 5s, including knights and land raiders).

 

I've had a fair bit of success with my BA as pure primaris, so I don't believe it's an obvious "take raven guard, BA suck" sort of thing. I think it'll depend on the way you play.

 

BA will do FAR better when enemy armies try to melee them, and all primaris units melee threat levels increase for BA too. The BA warlord trait to increase damage on a weapon, coupled with red rampage means that despite not having a good relic sword for primaris captains, ours can dish out good damage (gravis captain could either have a sword that hits on 2s, wounds on 3s and does 3 damage per hit, or a fist that hits on 3s, wounds on 2s and does 1d3+1 damage per hit, for example).

our psychic power to grant an invulnerable save to stuff like a repulsor is also pretty cool, if you go the librarian route - and the +1 attack power to a unit just further enhances combat effectiveness too.

 

upon wings of fire is frankly amazing on inceptors, and descent of angels on a unit of inceptors that were buffed with unleash rage will give enemies a shock too (possible mortal wounds just for charging, 3 attacks each, 4 on sergeant, hitting on 3s wounding on 3s, and they're resilient enough to survive combat with non-dedicated CC units AND to get into a position that enemies cannot fallback).

 

the BA relic banner for a 5+++ for models within 6 inches is rather good if you go for red horde type army too.

 

 

All comes down to how you want to play, I've very much enjoyed playing my BA.

 

but if you're doing a shooting army, the raven guard buff is hard to pass up (and strike from the shadows makes aggressors nice)

[Riddlesworth]

Hellblaster heavy - Dark angels

Using Guiliman c- Ultramarines

Everything else - raven guard

[MeltaRange]

So I've played a lot of games with various chapters using mostly Primaris.  Your topic is too broad because it really depends on your playstyle.  There really isn't a best choice outside Bobby G Ultras. 

 

If you like Hellblasters and/or Aggressors, I'd be all over RG.  If you are looking for more of a "horde of Intercessors" or Inceptors then I'd go BA all the way for a variety of reasons.  I personally have really liked White Scars because retreating and charging again is extremely powerful if you build your army around it.

 

Another "alternate" style list that I've been fooling around with is "big marines" which means, Primaris + stuff like Centurions, various Terminators, Dreadnoughts, and any vehicle.  It looks bad-ass on the tabletop, and doesn't 100% pigeonhole you into Primaris.

[Dracos]

I tend to prefer a flexible enough list that my army can melee a shooty army and shoot a melee army. Blood Angels definitely work for the former and Raven Guard the latter. Shame Lias doesn't effect Primaris units :( also looking into investing in possibly a couple Redemptors. Although I do like that Centurion Devestator idea. Seems like a ton of points though

 

Although I don't want to spend the money I'm probably going to but a BA Codex before settling on the final paint scheme. Though Raptors were blue and gold once so I suppose a non-camo scheme wouldn't be out of bounds for a Successor Chapter.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Inquisitor Dracos

[Claws and Effect]

Raven Guard also have at least 2 successors that wear mostly white. And one of them (Black Guard) use tactics that are almost directly opposite what you would expect of Raven Guard.

[Firepower]

 I personally have really liked White Scars because retreating and charging again is extremely powerful if you build your army around it.

 

 

It's not appropriate to dig into this in this thread, but I'd really like to know how this works!  Any threads/forums/whatever got this spelled out in short, simple words for the thick headed?

[Claws and Effect]

 

 

I personally have really liked White Scars because retreating and charging again is extremely powerful if you build your army around it.

 

It's not appropriate to dig into this in this thread, but I'd really like to know how this works! Any threads/forums/whatever got this spelled out in short, simple words for the thick headed?

Really strong with dual plasma Vanguard. Fall back-shoot-charge.

[Dracos]

I've spent a LOT of time researching for a Chapter name that fits the color scheme I want to use AND not seem to have been used in any material before.

 

Blood Hawks

- "quam fidelis mortem" (potential Chapter motto)

 

If anyone knows of them in any incarnation I'd appreciate knowing. I was "this" close to going with Fire Hawks and hoping they come up with new rules for Legion of the Damned that would include Primaris. A Primaris Chapter of Fire Hawks would have had some nice fluff potential, but if Blood Hawks is as "clean" as I think it is then it's a nice fresh slate to work with. If so, I'll be starting a thread in the Liber as soon as I figure out how to find download and use a paint scheme program for a Primaris.

 

I like building list and not deviating from it (much). So it has to be a take all-comers and scenarios. I think it's more important to play a list well as opposed to playing a week-made list. If that makes any sense. I seem to be leaning heavily toward a Raven Guard lineage but want to order the Blood Angel Codex to be thorough.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Inquisitor Dracos