Rules - shooting

[GAZ_AV_NZ]

If one model in a unit of 10 Marines can only see a single model of another unit Eldar

Can all the marines shoot the eldar?

[Mr. Shine]

No. Target units are chosen for attacks made by models in a shooting unit, and must be visible on a shooting model basis. Only the marine who can see the Eldar unit is able to shoot that unit. Conversely though, if that shooting marine has multiple shots and manages to wound more than the single model he can see, those wounds can carry over to unseen models in the enemy unit.

[Shinkosh]

Just to follow up on the second part of that answer, about wound carrying over to unseen models.  If you have a situation like my dodgy paint skills show below

 

 

So RED squad shoots GREEN squad, hits and inflicts 2 wounds, this would force GREEN to make two saves that could lead to the second model who is outside LoS dying?

 

 

The issue Im having in my group is the part in the shooting rules that states each shot is done one at a time.  If you roll it out one by one and inflict a wound on GREEN and the model in the open is removed on the first shot, the second RED can't see, so cant shoot.  Would that not mean that LoS is needed for each model you remove?  Would the same apply if say the first RED fired twice, as each shot is worked out individually and not per model or weapon?

Edited January 15, 2018 by Shinkosh

[Medicinal Carrots]

You declare targets, check range, and check line of sight for all models in the shooting unit before you start rolling anything. You check those once for the whole shooting unit before any shots are fired.

 

After that, you start rolling to hit and wound (technically one at a time), but you never check range or line of sight again. First shot kills the only model in the target unit in range or line of sight? Doesn't matter, you already checked those and were fine. You don't check again, you keep rolling your attacks, they keep allocating wounds, even to things that are no longer in range or line of sight.

 

In your image, when the red unit is picked to shoot, you declare the green unit as the target. You check range and line of sight. All models in the red unit are in range and line of sight of the green unit, so they all get to shoot. Now you start shooting. You keep shooting until you're out of weapons to shoot, and the target keeps allocating wounds until he's out of models in the green unit.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Medicinal Carrots

[Shinkosh]

Would you not limit the fast rolls to weapon types?  So say you drop a squad worth of bolters on the one guy you can see and he dies.  After you finish that weapon type, you cant then select the lascannon to fire when they cant see anyone (Assuming the model who was removed by bolter fire was the only visible).

[Medicinal Carrots]

Again, you check line of sight and range once, for the whole unit, before you do any shooting. This is before you pick which weapon or weapon group to fire first, much less start rolling. You do not re-check range or line of sight after each shot, after each model shoots, after each weapon type shoots, after each casualty, or at any other point after you've started rolling any of your shooting attacks. You check range and line of sight in step 2, pick weapons in step 3, and actually shoot all weapons in step 4. You go step by step for the unit, not for each model or each shot (otherwise you could change targets halfway through shooting).

[Claws and Effect]

Again, you check line of sight and range once, for the whole unit, before you do any shooting. This is before you pick which weapon or weapon group to fire first, much less start rolling. You do not re-check range or line of sight after each shot, after each model shoots, after each weapon type shoots, after each casualty, or at any other point after you've started rolling any of your shooting attacks. You check range and line of sight in step 2, pick weapons in step 3, and actually shoot all weapons in step 4. You go step by step for the unit, not for each model or each shot (otherwise you could change targets halfway through shooting).

This is because the game rules assume that all shots are occurring simultaneously, regardless of what order the dice rolls are made in.

 

Which makes perfect logical sense.

 

In an actual combat, anyone with a weapon is going to shoot at what they can see. The guy with the lascannon isn't going to hold his fire and wait to see whether his squadmates killed everything. He's going to shoot at the same time.