Pack leader question

[Rockythedog]

Ok, so looking through the index and it says I can take a wolf guard pack leader with, for example, a five man unit of grey hunters. Is this WGPL in addition to the listed pack leader that is in the unit, or instead of the existing pack leader? As in, does using the WGPL keep it as a 5 man unit or make it a 6?

I’m assuming it’s instead of, and keeps it a 5man unit but the wording isn’t that clear

[Guest]

This was resolved but a WGPL does count to the unit number.

 

So 5 BC/GH and 1 WGPL=6 man pack.

 

Edit:http://www.bolterand...unit/?p=4807137

Edited January 14, 2018 by Jarl Caldersson

[Rockythedog]

Ahh thankyou

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

Ahh thankyou

think of it as a model is being 'upgraded' to a sergeant. so points wise you are just paying for 5 men, and 1 of them gets upgraded to a sergeant if you decide to make 1 of them a WGPL. The points for the upgrade is already included in the cost of the marines individually.

[Rockythedog]

Oh so there is no negative it’s all positive? I take it they just have wolf guard pack markings instead of whichever unit they are leading a markings?

[jerrys]

[citation needed]

 

I don't know the answer, but I've been playing it the other way.

The index entries read to me like: 4 grey hunters plus one GHPL, plus optionally up to 5 GHs and 1 WGPL.

So I think you could have, e.g.:

- 4 GHs + GHPL (5 guys with 1 plasma)

- 4 GHs + GHPL + WGPL (6 guys with 1 plasma and 1 combi-plasma)

- 8 GHs + GHPL + WGPL (10 guys with 2 plasmas and 1 combi-plasma)

- 9 GHs + GHPL + WGPL (11 guys with 2 plasmas and 1 combi-plasma)

 

I didn't find a FAQ or facebook thread comment or however they're disseminating rules these days ... but I am bad at finding those, there might be one.

The wording seems pretty clear to me, though.

"This unit contains 1 Grey Hunter Pack Leader and 4 Grey Hunters. It can include up to 5 additional Grey Hunters. It can also include [...] a Wolf Guard Pack Leader[...]"

If you had 5 guys with a GHPL and a WGPL, the unit wouldn't "contain ... 4 grey hunters".

Edited January 14, 2018 by jerrys

[Guest]

This all came from Simon Grant the author of the SW codex. It was clarified and posted late last year (although searching it might me hard). Edited January 14, 2018 by Jarl Caldersson

[Arentius]

Can't use old codex against new edition rules.

 

Currently as written a base unit (lets take longfangs) A long fang unit is 4 fangs, 1 pack leader, optional extra longfang, optional extra WGPL. Nowhere in the index does it say they are replaced.

 

Now chapter approved limits the unit size to 6 however thats only for people playing points..because if you use power levels you'll never even look at that table so we need to go off the information from the datasheet which is the "rules" for the unit. otherwise points would have a limit of 6 and power levels are 7.

 

Therefore you can have a max unit of 5 longfangs, a pack leader and a WGPL because nowhere does it state "Upgrade a Longfang to a pack leader"

 

This is how my group and local GW play it anyway.

[Guest]

This isn't last editions author but this current editions codex author. Search the forums and you will find it this was already heavily debated and finally cleared up.

 

Edit2: need to clarify you still need a minimum of 4 GH/BC and 1 GHPL/BCPL per the rules.

 

Edit: since I doubt anyone will take the 30 seconds to look it up here it is: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335906-clarification-on-wolf-guard-and-special-weapons-in-a-unit/?p=4807137

 

 

"Simon has just confirmed that Wolf Guard will count towards the units size for Special weapons.

 

He also confirmed that missing wargear combinations will be allowed.

 

There will be an update soon."

Edited January 14, 2018 by Jarl Caldersson

[Deadnaughty]

This isn't last editions author but this current editions codex author. Search the forums and you will find it this was already heavily debated and finally cleared up.

 

Edit2: need to clarify you still need a minimum of 4 GH/BC and 1 GHPL/BCPL per the rules.

 

Edit: since I doubt anyone will take the 30 seconds to look it up here it is: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335906-clarification-on-wolf-guard-and-special-weapons-in-a-unit/?p=4807137

 

 

"Simon has just confirmed that Wolf Guard will count towards the units size for Special weapons.

 

He also confirmed that missing wargear combinations will be allowed.

 

There will be an update soon."

Your both saying the same thing.

4 GH, 1 GHPL and 1 WGPL. Your not allowed 3 GH, 1 GHPL and 1 WGPL

 

The WGPL however counts for the 1 special weapon per X.

[Rockythedog]

This isn't last editions author but this current editions codex author. Search the forums and you will find it this was already heavily debated and finally cleared up.

 

Edit2: need to clarify you still need a minimum of 4 GH/BC and 1 GHPL/BCPL per the rules.

 

Edit: since I doubt anyone will take the 30 seconds to look it up here it is: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335906-clarification-on-wolf-guard-and-special-weapons-in-a-unit/?p=4807137

 

 

"Simon has just confirmed that Wolf Guard will count towards the units size for Special weapons.

 

He also confirmed that missing wargear combinations will be allowed.

 

There will be an update soon."

So going by your 2nd edit, the WGPL would be the 6 man in the unit?

 

So when composing the unit, I should kit out

4 x GH (or BC/LF)

1 x GHPL - weapon options

1 x WGPL markings and weapon option

 

As opposed to

4x GH

1 x WGPL

Edited January 14, 2018 by Rockythedog

[TiguriusX]

You always have the troop pack leader and basic troops

 

The WG PL is optional and separate from the troop pack leader 

 

This is for all Blood Claw...Grey Hunter...Long Fang etc. 

 

You never replace the troop pack leader with the wolf guard pack leader

 

So your 4xGH 1xWGPL is not legal

 

The packleader is the current version way of giving us a close combat specialist in the unit.  He is the only one who can take special melee weapons and he has an extra attack usually.

 

Call him unit champion or badass if there are too many "pack leaders" floating around and confusing you

Edited January 14, 2018 by TiguriusX

[Rockythedog]

You always have the pack leader and basic troops

 

The WG PL is optional and separate from the troop pack leader

 

This is for all Blood Claw...Grey Hunter...Long Fang etc.

 

You don't replace the troop pack leader with the wolf guard pack leader

 

So your 4xGH 1xWGPL is not legal

 

Nice one thanks. About to start building my GH and not sure on how I’m supposed to load them out. Thanks for the answers brothers

[Guest]

 

This isn't last editions author but this current editions codex author. Search the forums and you will find it this was already heavily debated and finally cleared up.

Edit2: need to clarify you still need a minimum of 4 GH/BC and 1 GHPL/BCPL per the rules.

Edit: since I doubt anyone will take the 30 seconds to look it up here it is: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335906-clarification-on-wolf-guard-and-special-weapons-in-a-unit/?p=4807137

"Simon has just confirmed that Wolf Guard will count towards the units size for Special weapons.

He also confirmed that missing wargear combinations will be allowed.

There will be an update soon."

So going by your 2nd edit, the WGPL would be the 6 man in the unit?

So when composing the unit, I should kit out

4 x GH (or BC/LF)

1 x GHPL - weapon options

1 x WGPL markings and weapon option

As opposed to

4x GH

1 x WGPL

The 4GH and 1 GHPL are mandatory yes. That is you baseline configuration. From there you add. It's a bit more complicated than it should be, hopefully our codex simplifies it so we don't have 2 pack leaders in one pack.

[Rockythedog]

Thankyou for clearignit up for me.