Dealing with Alaitoc and other stealth tactics

[Normal Norman]

A couple of weeks ago I played a game against an Alaitoc army and I got my arse kicked. The -1 to hit was crippling for my gunline army. I wasn’t able to overcharge my Plasma and all of my close range elements got picked off early.

 

How have people been building armies to deal with this? I am thinking of investing in Inceptors to drop with some DWing Knights and a Jump Pack Master.

[CCE1981]

I dealt with the -1 to hit army a few weeks ago. Mobility and volume of fire are the key. I am trying to move the vast majority of my list away from the static gunline. I am having trouble not keeping a small base to protect against alphastrikes though.

[Zectz]

The -1 hurts DA a lot as they focus too much on Plasma.

 

Not a big deal but it works nicely to remove those backfield -1 to hit units like Dark Reapers or Venomthropes for example, is the Datalink Telemetry stratagem. Whirlwinds are surprisingly good against these units and are cheap at doing so. Other Space marine armies tend to avoid the stratagem because land speeders kinda suck but Ravenwing speeders are much more attractive choice. Advancing (for invulnerable jink save) into range/line of sight of these key -1 units you want to pickoff with auto hit Whirlwind attacks.

 

Castellan missiles at good against these elder units 2D6 and wounding on 2s since they are T3. Vengeance missiles are great vs the Tyranid -1 units as they are multiple wound models.

 

I know whirlwinds are not a top tier choice compared to other units but for the sake of facing these -1 armies every now and then it doesn't hurt to have the flexibility/options available for the sake of 100 points.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Zectz

[breng77]

I do it by not playing a gunline. These traits become a non-factor when you get within 12". We have some of the fastest units in the game, and plenty of deepstrike options.

Alternatively if you want to gunline bring your own -1 to hit and don't rely too much on plasma.

[Normal Norman]

The -1 hurts DA a lot as they focus too much on Plasma.

 

Not a big deal but it works nicely to remove those backfield -1 to hit units like Dark Reapers or Venomthropes for example, is the Datalink Telemetry stratagem. Whirlwinds are surprisingly good against these units and are cheap at doing so. Other Space marine armies tend to avoid the stratagem because land speeders kinda suck but Ravenwing speeders are much more attractive choice. Advancing (for invulnerable jink save) into range/line of sight of these key -1 units you want to pickoff with auto hit Whirlwind attacks.

 

Castellan missiles at good against these elder units 2D6 and wounding on 2s since they are T3. Vengeance missiles are great vs the Tyranid -1 units as they are multiple wound models.

 

I know whirlwinds are not a top tier choice compared to other units but for the sake of facing these -1 armies every now and then it doesn't hurt to have the flexibility/options available for the sake of 100 points.

I have always liked Whirlwinds but they have never been good enough to be worth dropping money on but with Speed of the Raven and Datalink telemenetary it might be worth doing.

[SnakeChisler]

I've been comboing the 2 land speeders with Inceptors and Reivers In front backed up by Intercessors behind

 

The 2 speeders have ignores cover and can hop over terrain as well as assault flyers, also started taking a whirlwind again for datalink tactic, used it on a Calexsus last game.

 

Tried it with my Dark Talon as well but anyone running massed flyers will have a fairly crippling 1st turn with total re-roll support and ignores cover

 

Plasma inceptors are amazing at tank and multi wound model killing with overcharge and WOTDA, its like why did i ever buy a las cannon when one of these Bro's can lay down on average 4 S8 D3 shots.

[march10k]

-1 to hit doesn't impact my Azrael Lascannon Farm too much, dropping my accuracy from 88% to 75%...and the darkshroud I'll build when they come back into stock returns the favor, so I can't complain about the 13%.  And the -1 doesn't apply to deathwing assault, so...maybe I don't see it as a problem because Azrael has the only plasma weapon in my army...

[breng77]

-1 to hit actually drops you to 67% accuracy. you don't get to re-roll the 3s so 16% of the time your initial shot auto misses. Then you re-roll 1s and 2s. So 4 shots at -1 to hit, hit twice. Of your misses 2/3rds will be re-rollable, and those will fail on 1,2, or 3. So it is a 21% reduction in output.

 

Although 1 model in the squad can ignore the -1 by using the Signum, which brings you up to 71%.

 

About 21% of the time your 3 non-signum shots only hit once.

Edited January 16, 2018 by breng77

[Kasper_Hawser]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but given that most Eldar units are T3, I wouldn't think you need to overcharge plasma to get the sweet 2+ to wound. and if you are using plasma in the first place, chances are you are rushing for Rapid fire range of 12" anyway, whether it is with Rhino, Drop Pod or Repulsor.

 

Also if you use on a solid fire base backline, Azrael would improve your accuracy by another 16%, due to rerolling the 2s as well as mentioned by Breng. And at the same time, provide an invuln save and a dangerous melee character protecting your backlines.

[breng77]

For eldar the issue is that everything gets it, so wave serpents, wraith lords etc. I agree though that many plasma squads just want to be close anyway.

[Normal Norman]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but given that most Eldar units are T3, I wouldn't think you need to overcharge plasma to get the sweet 2+ to wound. and if you are using plasma in the first place, chances are you are rushing for Rapid fire range of 12" anyway, whether it is with Rhino, Drop Pod or Repulsor.

 

Also if you use on a solid fire base backline, Azrael would improve your accuracy by another 16%, due to rerolling the 2s as well as mentioned by Breng. And at the same time, provide an invuln save and a dangerous melee character protecting your backlines.

I wanted to overcharge my Plasma Cannon Devs in order to do multiple wounds to wraithguard and get 2+ to wound on jetbikes.

 

Whilst I played Alaitoc, I wanted to pick up tactics for playing against all -1 to hit Chapter Tactics such as Ravenguard and Alpha Legion.

[Normal Norman]

I've been comboing the 2 land speeders with Inceptors and Reivers In front backed up by Intercessors behind

 

The 2 speeders have ignores cover and can hop over terrain as well as assault flyers, also started taking a whirlwind again for datalink tactic, used it on a Calexsus last game.

 

Tried it with my Dark Talon as well but anyone running massed flyers will have a fairly crippling 1st turn with total re-roll support and ignores cover

 

Plasma inceptors are amazing at tank and multi wound model killing with overcharge and WOTDA, its like why did i ever buy a las cannon when one of these Bro's can lay down on average 4 S8 D3 shots.

Inceptors are definitely on my to buy list along with a couple of new Landspeeders in order to convert into Sammael and a Talonmaster.

 

How have you been using the Reivers?

[Kasper_Hawser]

@ Snakechisler, how does the speeders get ignore cover?

[breng77]

The talon master gives all RW units within 6" ignores cover.

[Kasper_Hawser]

The talon master gives all RW units within 6" ignores cover.

 

Holy crap, I didn't notice it. Gotta take note when I face DA next.

[SnakeChisler]

I normally work one flank most people don't have the mobility to counter

 

I put the Reivers out of line of sight the turn they come down, they've got grapnel launchers as well as grav schute insertion expensive but worth it

 

We've also started playing the ITC rule that ground floors always block LOS as it cuts out a load of arguments about what you can and can't see through windows.

 

Putting the Reivers down and trying to charge just gets them shot to bits, if I'm working one flank anyway they block a direct line to the speeders then have the option of jumping out and blocking overwatch with thier grenade. With 2 squads you can get behind sometimes as well, thing is play the long game with them there exceptionally good at being a tar pit especially to vehicles. You generally need the overwatch block as well, the type of units your wanting to shut down tend to have a lot of firepower and not much combat.