Random observation in Codex: C. Daemons regarding artifacts

[Are Verlo]

If a player has both a chaos daemons detatchment, a chaos marines detatchment and the army is led by a chaos daemons warlord, then some of the artifacts from codex daemons, can be given to characters from the csm detatchment because many sorcerors and lords have the option to take a daemonic steed (steed of Slaanesh, disc, Juggernaught ) and thus gain the daemon keyword.

 

For example: Sorc on disc can get a The endless tome because he has both the daemon keyword, Tzeentch and psycher keywords. Not all these combinations are extremely good, but it can be fun now and then.

 

 

Edit: updated to remove unique characters from the list of characters eliglible to take daemon artifacts

Edited January 14, 2018 by Are Verlo

[radionausea]

Pretty sure that named characters can't take relics. But on the other characters - good find!

[Are Verlo]

Pretty sure that named characters can't take relics. But on the other characters - good find!

That is correct, so any sorc on disc could take the tome 

[Commissar K.]

Edit: Looking forward if GW wanted this or not!

Edited January 15, 2018 by Commissar K.

[Cheex]

Huh, hadn't noticed that. Good find.

[Marshlands]

The Tyranids FAQ restricted this for GSC so would expect something similar for daemons in the near future

 

Believe the same also applies to warlord traits one way or the other

[Khornate individual]

Party Pooper

[Marshlands]

Use it whilst you can at least - would work the other way round too at the moment I guess so CSM/DG relics on daemons DP's :)

[Commissar K.]

Also, while we're on the topic.

Am I correct in seeing that Skullreaver's second effect (each time you roll a 6+ to wound etc.) always applies OR does it only apply against Titanic units?

It is a second sentence/ability. But obviously it makes a large difference.

[Finkmilkana]

The way it’s written I would say it applies always. It’s a different effect, so it would need its own restrictions.

If that was the intention I’m not sure.

[Commissar K.]

The Tyranids FAQ restricted this for GSC so would expect something similar for daemons in the near future

 

Believe the same also applies to warlord traits one way or the other

Could well be, but the thing is that for this codex specifically the wording is different as usual. As mentioned the only requirement to gain acces to the Artefacts is that a Warlord comes with the Daemon faction keyword but then every model with Daemon keyword is able to pick one of the Artefacts.

 

In any case it could be really neat or not intended :P 

[Charlo]

Is "Daemon" a faction Keyword in the new codex or just a normal one?

 

Could make all the difference... Maybe?

[Panzer]

Is "Daemon" a faction Keyword in the new codex or just a normal one?

 

Could make all the difference... Maybe?

In the Daemon Codex? It's a faction keyword of course or you wouldn't be able to create daemon detachments. ^^

[Commissar K.]

Is "Daemon" a faction Keyword in the new codex or just a normal one?

 

Could make all the difference... Maybe?

Models in Codex Chaos Daemons have the Daemon Faction Keyword and models in Codex Chaos Space Marines do not (including Daemon Princes).

 

However due to the way it's worded in the Codex Chaos Daemons models with Keyword Daemon obtain acces to the Helforged Artefacts the moment the Warlord is a model with the Daemon Faction Keyword.

 

In other words, the Warlord allows us to acces the Artefacts which then look only for Keyword Daemon to 'hand out' said Artefacts. Currently this means that if you would make a Skullmaster your Warlord a World Eater Daemon Prince of Khorne could thake the Skullreaver.

[Charlo]

Aye, I'd imagine it may get an FAQ... But who knows!

 

Actually, do the rules for relics say saomething like "They're available to a character in a Daemons Detachment" or is it just the army?

Edited January 15, 2018 by Charlo

[radionausea]

If your warlord has the Daemon faction keyword you can give the artefact to a Daemon character in your army is the wording. Edited January 15, 2018 by radionausea

[Commissar K.]

Aye, I'd imagine it may get an FAQ... But who knows!

 

Actually, do the rules for relics say saomething like "They're available to a character in a Daemons Detachment" or is it just the army?

Yeah I am very eager to see what will be the same after the FAQ in general. Though having said that I don't know if these questions are all asked on their Facebook pages. In better words, it's all actually quite clear on how it works. Even pieces of former narrative statements are removed and because of that really clear. Same applies for the deep strike stratagem. Offcourse deepstriking Mortarion for example is powerful but it's not like it doesn't come with it's own costs altogether and it's not like it's the best combo in the game either.

 

The wording as is:

 

Edit:

 

Closest example akin to it is with Tyranid Cults and Tyranids themselves having said that...

 

 

 

Note that although Genestealer Cults are devoted to the Hive Mind and will willingly fight alongside their xenos masters, they deviate significantly in terms of organisation and tactics, not to mention physiology! Genestealer Cults units therefore cannot make use of any of the rules listed in this section (this includes the Detachment abilities, Stratagems, bio-artefacts, psychic powers, Warlord Traits and Tactical Objectives described in this section), and instead have their own rules.

Wouldn't as logically apply to Chaos Daemons/Chaos Daemons from Chaos Space Marines. By large because they do not deviate significantly in terms of organisation and tactics or physiology. E.g. we have narrative confirmation that the Daemonic Primarchs sometimes came to battle straight out of the warp...

 

But as mentioned we will see how it pans out. I actually think it makes sence to have it overlap. Not because I want to but because their are certain things that must be met which on this sight don't really break the game.

 

As before, even deepstriking a Lord of Skulls is competitive but not face warping for all oppossing factions.

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Commissar K.

[Khornate individual]

Question I thought of last night.  If the juggernaught is in the daemon codex and they might FAQ chaos marines using daemon stuff, will there no longer be a chaos lord on a juggernaught?

[Panzer]

Question I thought of last night.  If the juggernaught is in the daemon codex and they might FAQ chaos marines using daemon stuff, will there no longer be a chaos lord on a juggernaught?

There is already no Chaos Lord on Juggernaut unless you use the Index and nothing about the Daemon Codex will change that.

[DominikB]

 

 

Is "Daemon" a faction Keyword in the new codex or just a normal one?

 

Could make all the difference... Maybe?

Models in Codex Chaos Daemons have the Daemon Faction Keyword and models in Codex Chaos Space Marines do not (including Daemon Princes).

 

However due to the way it's worded in the Codex Chaos Daemons models with Keyword Daemon obtain acces to the Helforged Artefacts the moment the Warlord is a model with the Daemon Faction Keyword.

 

In other words, the Warlord allows us to acces the Artefacts which then look only for Keyword Daemon to 'hand out' said Artefacts. Currently this means that if you would make a Skullmaster your Warlord a World Eater Daemon Prince of Khorne could thake the Skullreaver.

Actually oblits do in my version...interesting. Not FAQd either...hmmm

[Panzer]

 

 

Is "Daemon" a faction Keyword in the new codex or just a normal one?

 

Could make all the difference... Maybe?

Models in Codex Chaos Daemons have the Daemon Faction Keyword and models in Codex Chaos Space Marines do not (including Daemon Princes).

 

However due to the way it's worded in the Codex Chaos Daemons models with Keyword Daemon obtain acces to the Helforged Artefacts the moment the Warlord is a model with the Daemon Faction Keyword.

 

In other words, the Warlord allows us to acces the Artefacts which then look only for Keyword Daemon to 'hand out' said Artefacts. Currently this means that if you would make a Skullmaster your Warlord a World Eater Daemon Prince of Khorne could thake the Skullreaver.

Actually oblits do in my version...interesting. Not FAQd either...hmmm

 

Some do but most don't. It's pretty obviously an oversight since every daemon unit in the DG Codex has it as faction keyword as well.

[DominikB]

 

 

 

 

Is "Daemon" a faction Keyword in the new codex or just a normal one?

 

Could make all the difference... Maybe?

Models in Codex Chaos Daemons have the Daemon Faction Keyword and models in Codex Chaos Space Marines do not (including Daemon Princes).

 

However due to the way it's worded in the Codex Chaos Daemons models with Keyword Daemon obtain acces to the Helforged Artefacts the moment the Warlord is a model with the Daemon Faction Keyword.

 

In other words, the Warlord allows us to acces the Artefacts which then look only for Keyword Daemon to 'hand out' said Artefacts. Currently this means that if you would make a Skullmaster your Warlord a World Eater Daemon Prince of Khorne could thake the Skullreaver.

Actually oblits do in my version...interesting. Not FAQd either...hmmm

Some do but most don't. It's pretty obviously an oversight since every daemon unit in the DG Codex has it as faction keyword as well.

I’d be inclined to agree with you about this. Only oblits I think in the codex, you’d expect mutilators to have it too.

[Commissar K.]

Cool to see Oblis have the FK, doesnt really matter for the Artefacts but can help in army construction.

 

Do certainly wonder now if they should have it. They are incredibly tough with Ferulent Gnarlmaws too!

[Are Verlo]

Some more "random observations".

After watching the thousand sons video and reading some posts it seem like GW have confirmed 1KS (thousand sons) are getting tzaangors on discs (skyfires, shamans and enlightened)

These will probably get the daemonic keyword and be eliglible to be affected by some chaos daemons powers and stratagems.

 

As long as the tzaangors on discs have Tzeentch keyword and daemonic they can be affected by

"the reserve stratagem" (dont have the codex at hand, but think it´s called denizens of the warp?)

Tzeetch warlord traits like rerolling 1´s to wound in the shooting phase when in range of the warlord

Both the flames and boon psychic powers (+1 to a random stat and/or +1 to wound with shooting)

 

IF the shaman is a character he can also get the endless tome and learn one tzeentch psychic power

[Commissar K.]

Yeah more AoS choices for Tzeentch fans will likely go to TS aswell. Rumours of the Mutalith where also around...
IF the Tzaangors get the Daemonic Keyword they can indeed be affected, just like Magnus himself. Which should be a huge boost in their favour also. 

It's just interesting to see if GW will reword it as such that the Artefacts are exclusive to models with the same Faction Keywords. At the same time though in AoS all Artefact options are based on Keyword and this does indeed mean that some Mortals have acces to Daemon Artefacts also because they are on a Daemonic mount for example (and have the Daemonic Keyword also). 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Commissar K.