Jump Packs on Company Vets, Champions and Ancients

[Dhx711]

Forgive me if this has been answered but I’m seeing absolutely no way in both the Index, Codex or FAQ that allows jump packs on Company champions, vets or ancients. What. The. Actual. :cuss. So if I take an HQ with jump pack there’s no way to have the vets keep up to make use of Command Squad Bodyguard? My Ancient can’t keep up to provide the banner buff (assuming the banner is “nonfunctional” in a transport)?

 

Any thoughts on this?

Edited January 14, 2018 by Jolemai
Swear filter dodge

[Xenith]

Look at:

 

1) the blood angels unit entry in the index which lists models that can be taken with jump packs

 

2) the blood angels point values at the back of the index which list costs for these models.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2018 by Xenith

[Dhx711]

Doh. - I knew I was missing something.

 

Thanks Brother!

[Ekfud]

I was looking at this a couple of weeks ago - Note that the points for the base units aren't always the same in the index. 

 

 

The ancient is same points in both books for stock, and the index version is +9 for jump pack in the BA section (so your JP effectively costs 9).
The champion (without JP) was 16 less than the index when the codex came out, so the difference between your codex (non-JP) and index (with JP) ends up being +30...

So you *can* get the mobility for the champion, but basically the cost of an extra DC with a power fist.

 

Hoping some of those differences might get adjusted in FAQ updates, otherwise I'm planning on leaving the champion (at least) on foot. 

[Panzer]

I was looking at this a couple of weeks ago - Note that the points for the base units aren't always the same in the index. 

 

 

The ancient is same points in both books for stock, and the index version is +9 for jump pack in the BA section (so your JP effectively costs 9).

The champion (without JP) was 16 less than the index when the codex came out, so the difference between your codex (non-JP) and index (with JP) ends up being +30...

So you *can* get the mobility for the champion, but basically the cost of an extra DC with a power fist.

 

Hoping some of those differences might get adjusted in FAQ updates, otherwise I'm planning on leaving the champion (at least) on foot. 

You always use the latest points even for Index units. So the difference between non-JP Champion and JP Champion would be only the 14p for his Jump Pack (since that value is noted fix on his Datasheet rather than being listed at the end of the Codex or else it would be 9p).

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

I was looking at this a couple of weeks ago - Note that the points for the base units aren't always the same in the index. 

 

 

The ancient is same points in both books for stock, and the index version is +9 for jump pack in the BA section (so your JP effectively costs 9).

The champion (without JP) was 16 less than the index when the codex came out, so the difference between your codex (non-JP) and index (with JP) ends up being +30...

So you *can* get the mobility for the champion, but basically the cost of an extra DC with a power fist.

 

Hoping some of those differences might get adjusted in FAQ updates, otherwise I'm planning on leaving the champion (at least) on foot. 

You always use the latest points even for Index units. So the difference between non-JP Champion and JP Champion would be only the 14p for his Jump Pack (since that value is noted fix on his Datasheet rather than being listed at the end of the Codex or else it would be 9p).

 

 

But adding the Jump Pack essentially makes it a new units, points-wise. It's no longer just a Company Champion that has been given a jump pack, but the Index entry Company Champion with Jump Pack. There's nothing in the Codex that overrides this, at least that I'm aware of. We're using the most up-to-date points cost for the unit, which is in the Index.

[Ekfud]

That would make sense in terms of points (and general sanity) - but the index had separate datasheets for JP and non-JP versions rather than an add-on wargear cost. 

 

Would love for the JP version to just be +14 on top of the current codex cost (ie a wargear cost on top of the standard codex unit), but I was under the impression it was index-unit if you want to go down that path. 

 

The annoying part is, the jump pack command models were added to *only* the Blood Angels part of the index, so it seemed odd to give it a special mention there and then drop it from the codex. 

[Lord_Caerolion]

That would make sense in terms of points (and general sanity) - but the index had separate datasheets for JP and non-JP versions rather than an add-on wargear cost. 

 

Would love for the JP version to just be +14 on top of the current codex cost (ie a wargear cost on top of the standard codex unit), but I was under the impression it was index-unit if you want to go down that path. 

 

The annoying part is, the jump pack command models were added to *only* the Blood Angels part of the index, so it seemed odd to give it a special mention there and then drop it from the codex. 

 

Because it's something that used to be an option for Blood Angels, but the models can no longer be purchased, instead only the Command Squad box, which has no Jump Packs included.

 

This really is something that should have been addressed in the FAQ though.

[Ekfud]

 

That would make sense in terms of points (and general sanity) - but the index had separate datasheets for JP and non-JP versions rather than an add-on wargear cost. 

 

Would love for the JP version to just be +14 on top of the current codex cost (ie a wargear cost on top of the standard codex unit), but I was under the impression it was index-unit if you want to go down that path. 

 

The annoying part is, the jump pack command models were added to *only* the Blood Angels part of the index, so it seemed odd to give it a special mention there and then drop it from the codex. 

 

Because it's something that used to be an option for Blood Angels, but the models can no longer be purchased, instead only the Command Squad box, which has no Jump Packs included.

 

This really is something that should have been addressed in the FAQ though.

 

 

Yeah - although I always found that logic a bit iffy as well. It's not like they took away all the heavy weapon options for tactical squads because the lascannon only comes in the dev kit :-)

[Lord_Caerolion]

It is indeed pretty stupid. It's just opening up for confusion with the newer players, as they market the Codex as everything you need to know to play your army, alongside the rulebook. 

[Shaezus]

It's totally boggling. To learn all the units at my disposal - FW included - and the rules that apply I need to buy FIVE books. That's more than a hundred quid spent before I've even bought any models: rulebook, astartes index codex, FW index and now I've learned I need the 'Chapter approved' because they changed the points of some units I want to use.

It's a mess. The cynic / realist inside me thinks they plan it this way.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I'm hoping they're working on an AoS-style app that provides the rules free of charge, with the books kept for fluff, essentially.

[Ekfud]

I'm hoping they're working on an AoS-style app that provides the rules free of charge, with the books kept for fluff, essentially.

Quite possible, but *after* everyone has bought $600 worth of printed material first :-)

 

I had a long break between ~4th ed and recently; and was trying to describe the guy used to play against in ~1997 (who hasn't touched it since) what you might want a copy of now. 

Rulebook, Index (or 2 if you want some IG/assassin/Mech allies), Marine Codex, BA-specific codex, chapter approved. By which point we were at something like $390 AUD. 

 

If you want to add a GK Codex or similar for add-ons, or a FW armour book, keep going... 

[Panzer]

It's totally boggling. To learn all the units at my disposal - FW included - and the rules that apply I need to buy FIVE books. That's more than a hundred quid spent before I've even bought any models: rulebook, astartes index codex, FW index and now I've learned I need the 'Chapter approved' because they changed the points of some units I want to use.

It's a mess. The cynic / realist inside me thinks they plan it this way.

Well to be fair, you only NEED two books to play Blopd Angels. The rulebook and the codex.

The FW stuff is extra you knew where you knew you had to get the rules from another source than the codex when you decided to buy them and aren't even from GW directly.

The Chapter Approved is not needed but makes things a bit more balanced. I agree the point changes should be downloadable for free but you can expect more of those in the future.

The Index is only needed because GW is throwing us a bone here. I wouldn't expect to be able to use Index options forever so I'd say better get used to how things are with just the Codex.

[Shaezus]

 

It's totally boggling. To learn all the units at my disposal - FW included - and the rules that apply I need to buy FIVE books. That's more than a hundred quid spent before I've even bought any models: rulebook, astartes index codex, FW index and now I've learned I need the 'Chapter approved' because they changed the points of some units I want to use.

It's a mess. The cynic / realist inside me thinks they plan it this way.

Well to be fair, you only NEED two books to play Blopd Angels. The rulebook and the codex.

The FW stuff is extra you knew where you knew you had to get the rules from another source than the codex when you decided to buy them and aren't even from GW directly.

The Chapter Approved is not needed but makes things a bit more balanced. I agree the point changes should be downloadable for free but you can expect more of those in the future.

The Index is only needed because GW is throwing us a bone here. I wouldn't expect to be able to use Index options forever so I'd say better get used to how things are with just the Codex.

 

 

So long as they FAQ the codex to give it all of the BA options in the index, that's fine. Otherwise there are gaps which have no reason to be there.

 

As I said, if I want to utilise all units at my disposal then I need five books. I recently ordered the FW dex only to find out a few days later that some of the points costs have been updated. To find these new costs, I would have to invest in another 20 quid book. It's beyond messy.