Latest Dark Angels FAQ

[Chmur]

The one that bugs me is that a DA Librarian is 8pl whilst the Grand Master of the librarians is 7. It’s an obvious typo why not fix it.

 

That FAQ feels really incomplete.

 

The difference is, PL covers all possible options. Therefore, Ezekiel, with fixed loadout this time around, could actually be PL-wise cheaper than a librarian who you can, within it's dex loadout, kit in different way. If I am not mistake, point difference Libby vs Ezekiel with same loadout is actually very similar. The question then would be how much that extra psychic prowess is worth.

 

 

Speaking about powerlevel:

 

I just noticed the fact that 5 Intercessors are 5PL, the same as 5 tactical marines. I know it includes any options, but you just have twice the amount of wounds and attacks, which is odd

 

This is change that is valid since Codex:Space Marines. As well, you must bear in mind that while in bolter loadout Intercessors might be better choice, Tacticals are more flexible with their Heavy/Special weapon option.

[Helycon]

 

 

The one that bugs me is that a DA Librarian is 8pl whilst the Grand Master of the librarians is 7. It’s an obvious typo why not fix it.

 

That FAQ feels really incomplete.

The difference is, PL covers all possible options. Therefore, Ezekiel, with fixed loadout this time around, could actually be PL-wise cheaper than a librarian who you can, within it's dex loadout, kit in different way. If I am not mistake, point difference Libby vs Ezekiel with same loadout is actually very similar. The question then would be how much that extra psychic prowess is worth.

 

Speaking about powerlevel:

 

I just noticed the fact that 5 Intercessors are 5PL, the same as 5 tactical marines. I know it includes any options, but you just have twice the amount of wounds and attacks, which is odd

This is change that is valid since Codex:Space Marines. As well, you must bear in mind that while in bolter loadout Intercessors might be better choice, Tacticals are more flexible with their Heavy/Special weapon option.

Ezikiels options are better than any a standard librarian can pretty much take.

 

Like I stated in my comment, I know it includes options, but the difference in wounds and attacks is a lot bigger than a heavy weapon or special weapon and an option or two for the sargeant.

[Chmur]

 

Like I stated in my comment, I know it includes options, but the difference in wounds and attacks is a lot bigger than a heavy weapon or special weapon and an option or two for the sargeant.

 

 

I beg to differ. If you are to face Primarchs/vehicles and want just objective sitting gun platform, the Tacticals with Lascannon and Combi-something on Sergeant will be far more usefull.

 

If your goal is to have harassing long range bolter squad, with possibilities to charge into combat, then sure, Intercessors are you best choice. 

[Helycon]

 

 

Like I stated in my comment, I know it includes options, but the difference in wounds and attacks is a lot bigger than a heavy weapon or special weapon and an option or two for the sargeant.

 

 

I beg to differ. If you are to face Primarchs/vehicles and want just objective sitting gun platform, the Tacticals with Lascannon and Combi-something on Sergeant will be far more usefull.

 

If your goal is to have harassing long range bolter squad, with possibilities to charge into combat, then sure, Intercessors are you best choice. 

 

It very much depends on what you face. Tacticals really aren't that useful at this point. People use scouts in stead for even cheaper units and use devastators or other platforms for heavy and special weapons. Intercessors are superior in every way save the options, and the powerlevel should be higher.

[Master Toddius]

I'm confused. Did my Chaplain on bike that I've been using since 1993 become invalid? What about my librarians on bike, are they after 15 years invalid as well? Seriously, how does one miss these entries when writing the codex?

[Helycon]

I'm confused. Did my Chaplain on bike that I've been using since 1993 become invalid? What about my librarians on bike, are they after 15 years invalid as well? Seriously, how does one miss these entries when writing the codex?

Use the index...

[breng77]

I'm confused. Did my Chaplain on bike that I've been using since 1993 become invalid? What about my librarians on bike, are they after 15 years invalid as well? Seriously, how does one miss these entries when writing the codex?

.

 

Codices only contain entries for units with a current GW model/conversion kit. Indices contain legacy units.

[ValourousHeart]

 

 

The one that bugs me is that a DA Librarian is 8pl whilst the Grand Master of the librarians is 7. It’s an obvious typo why not fix it.

 

That FAQ feels really incomplete.

The difference is, PL covers all possible options. Therefore, Ezekiel, with fixed loadout this time around, could actually be PL-wise cheaper than a librarian who you can, within it's dex loadout, kit in different way. If I am not mistake, point difference Libby vs Ezekiel with same loadout is actually very similar. The question then would be how much that extra psychic prowess is worth.

 

Speaking about powerlevel:

 

I just noticed the fact that 5 Intercessors are 5PL, the same as 5 tactical marines. I know it includes any options, but you just have twice the amount of wounds and attacks, which is odd

This is change that is valid since Codex:Space Marines. As well, you must bear in mind that while in bolter loadout Intercessors might be better choice, Tacticals are more flexible with their Heavy/Special weapon option.

Ezikiels options are better than any a standard librarian can pretty much take.

 

Like I stated in my comment, I know it includes options, but the difference in wounds and attacks is a lot bigger than a heavy weapon or special weapon and an option or two for the sargeant.

Except for Relics or warlord traits just to name a couple that you don't even pay for.

 

But that said I am coming around to the idea that the librarian needs to have its power level changed.

 

Both Asmodai and Ezekiel are the same power level 7.

Both the Inq Chap and the basic Chap are power level 5.

The Inq Chap in TDA and the Primaris Chap are power level 6. 

 

The Primaris Librarian is power level 7.

 

If Librarians are supposed to be +1 power level over an equal level chap, then the PA Librarian should be power level 6 and the TDA Librarian should be power level 7.

[Master Toddius]

So what, now we have to purchase a 50 USD codex AND the index? So 75 USD for the rules? lol FML

[breng77]

Yes if you want rules for models GW no longer (or in some cases never) makes, you need the index.  It sucks a bit, but most people who had legacy models bought the index when the edition dropped, if you did not then yeah it kind of sucks needing to buy an additional book.  I recommend the digital index at this point and then just taking screen shots and printing out the entries you need.  It is also of note that some wargear options for units are only in the index so that might be important as well.

[march10k]

And putting 3 CP on Deathwing Assault That one should be free.

My belief is that the reason they are so expensive is that The Lion will Return and be able to regenerate 3 CP per turn

 

Haha...that's dreaming!  It needn't be free, it would probably be better to just charge other armies for their equivalent freebies.  Also, if it were 'free,' it wouldn't be free, the points per model would go up instead...for something you wouldn't always use.  I don't want to pay a DWA points tax for a unit that might ride to war in a storm eagle.

 

 

I mean most of the 2 CP strats are situationally good. Suspect scan can be great, as can intractable, or only in death. DW assault less so and the 3 CP attack again always feels like too much unless you had a big plan for it.

You don't have to pay for the strats during list building.  They're situationally good...and that's entirely appropriate.  If the situation arises, use the stratagem.  If not, don't spend the command points.  It boggles the mind that this is seen as problematic.  If anything, the ones that you know you'll use 2-3x a game are undercosted.  None of them should be no-brainers, where's the strategy in that?  Balancing competing priorities and weighing the opportunity cost of spending some of a dwindling supply of CP is an excellent wrinkle in the rules that offsets some of the dumbing down that we've gone through. 

 

So what, now we have to purchase a 50 USD codex AND the index? So 75 USD for the rules? lol FML

 

Yes.  To be fair, most people would have bought the index long before the codex was released.  Would you rather still be waiting for a codex and have the $50 in your pocket?

 

 

 

 

Like I stated in my comment, I know it includes options, but the difference in wounds and attacks is a lot bigger than a heavy weapon or special weapon and an option or two for the sargeant.

 

 

I beg to differ. If you are to face Primarchs/vehicles and want just objective sitting gun platform, the Tacticals with Lascannon and Combi-something on Sergeant will be far more usefull.

 

If your goal is to have harassing long range bolter squad, with possibilities to charge into combat, then sure, Intercessors are you best choice. 

 

It very much depends on what you face. Tacticals really aren't that useful at this point. People use scouts in stead for even cheaper units and use devastators or other platforms for heavy and special weapons. Intercessors are superior in every way save the options, and the powerlevel should be higher.

 

I use both tactical squads and scouts in the same list.  the scouts are useful because they infiltrate during the deployment sequence, bubble-wrapping in front of my Azrael Lascannon Farm.  They're my first two drops, so that enemy infiltrators can't drop in front of where the lascannons will go, cutting a hole in my wrap before it's even built.  But other than being able to deploy outside the deployment zone, they're really nothing to write home about.  Tactical squads have better armor and better heavy weapons.  I'm happy to pay the extra 3 points per model for power armor and access to las/plas for my lateral bubble wrap.  The scouts generally die by turn two, the tacticals usually make it to turn four or beyond in spite of presenting a bigger threat with their plasma cannon.  The only thing the scouts contribute is dying early for their betters, the marines actually reap some enemy lives along the way.

[breng77]

I agree situationally good, is fine.  I think the no brainer thing is an issue because most armies don't have a lot of CP so a 1 CP shift up or down is huge.

 

If WOTDA were say 2 CP, it goes from amazing, to good because it reduces your other options more, if it goes to 3 CP it is meh because you are probably getting 1 maybe 2 uses out of it.  Same with speed of the raven.  Now if most armies were sporting say 15 CP it would be easier to cost said stratagems, because 3 CP goes from being maybe 50% or 33% of your total down to only 20% of your total.  This might be the biggest issue with DWA, a DW army probably doesn't have a ton of CP, so spending a large portion of them hurts.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

We are kind of straying away from the topic of DA FAQ. The discussion is interesting however, so if anyone wants they can start a new thread for the kind of táctica discussed here.

[JJD]

 

The one that bugs me is that a DA Librarian is 8pl whilst the Grand Master of the librarians is 7. It’s an obvious typo why not fix it.

That FAQ feels really incomplete.

 

 

The difference is, PL covers all possible options. Therefore, Ezekiel, with fixed loadout this time around, could actually be PL-wise cheaper than a librarian who you can, within it's dex loadout, kit in different way. If I am not mistake, point difference Libby vs Ezekiel with same loadout is actually very similar. The question then would be how much that extra psychic prowess is worth.

I can see why you might try to explain it that way but consider the following.

 

A librarian in TDA is the same PL as a standard DA librarian 8pl

 

A space marine librarian is 6pl that’s 2 cheaper than the same DA unit.

 

In fact a librarian on a bike in the codex is 8 pl

 

I think most would agree that no mater what you equip the librarian with he would not be better than Ezekiel.

 

It’s a typo it should be 6 as it is in the index and codex space marine.

[march10k]

Luci, you're right...but the FAQ is very short and there's almost nothing to say about it.  So I think the thread has mostly petered out, leading people to go off on tangents.

[Stormxlr]

So what, now we have to purchase a 50 USD codex AND the index? So 75 USD for the rules? lol FML

Not only, I have to have main rulebook, Plus codex, Plus index (bike hqs), Plus FW AS Index (allFW goodies I have), Plus Chapter Approved for point updates, Plus FAQ/ERRATA print out and army list print out. This is what you technically need to bring to a game for a legal match If your opponent wants to see all the rules and point costs. You need 5 damned books and it hasnt been a year yet since 8th edition came out. Thank The Emperor for Battlescribe..

[Stoic Raptor]

And wasn't one of the first things they said about 8th that you wouldn't need a stack of books to play any more?  This is why I don't trust anything that GW is unwilling to put in print (and not always that, either).

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

Well, technically they're right (which is the best kind of right).

You just need a tablet and all their digital books. 

[Chmur]

 

So what, now we have to purchase a 50 USD codex AND the index? So 75 USD for the rules? lol FML

Not only, I have to have main rulebook, Plus codex, Plus index (bike hqs), Plus FW AS Index (allFW goodies I have), Plus Chapter Approved for point updates, Plus FAQ/ERRATA print out and army list print out. This is what you technically need to bring to a game for a legal match If your opponent wants to see all the rules and point costs. You need 5 damned books and it hasnt been a year yet since 8th edition came out. Thank The Emperor for Battlescribe..

 

 

No. You need to have your Codex and rule booklet and point update from CA17 - which you can easily copy out and carry in your index. If you want to go fancy and add units from different books - Index/FW entries, then you of course need to bring rules for those as well.

 

And BatteScribe technically does not help you with this, as it's not "official" source, so in for the purpose of matched play, you should still have the rules with you.

[dtse]

And if you go to a tournament and your list is illegal, having done it in BattleScribe is not protection lol. Has happened a lot since 8th came out

[Stormxlr]

 

 

So what, now we have to purchase a 50 USD codex AND the index? So 75 USD for the rules? lol FML

Not only, I have to have main rulebook, Plus codex, Plus index (bike hqs), Plus FW AS Index (allFW goodies I have), Plus Chapter Approved for point updates, Plus FAQ/ERRATA print out and army list print out. This is what you technically need to bring to a game for a legal match If your opponent wants to see all the rules and point costs. You need 5 damned books and it hasnt been a year yet since 8th edition came out. Thank The Emperor for Battlescribe..

 

 

No. You need to have your Codex and rule booklet and point update from CA17 - which you can easily copy out and carry in your index. If you want to go fancy and add units from different books - Index/FW entries, then you of course need to bring rules for those as well.

 

And BatteScribe technically does not help you with this, as it's not "official" source, so in for the purpose of matched play, you should still have the rules with you.

 

What do you mean No? You said exactly what I said but you are trying to disagree with me. You need your Rulebook and Codex and CA for point updates thats already 3 heavy and thich books. Then I tend to run RW/DW so I need to have Index Imperium 1 for Bike HQs. I always take my Relic leviathan/contemptor/sicaran/rapiers so I need to have FW Index and there is nothing fancy about that at all (unless you are Anti FW elitist). Not counting 2 decks of cards for psychic powers and stratagems. And then FAQ/Errata print out and backup copy on your phone/tablet. 

 

Now the problem with printout is that there was an :cuss that tried to cheat by photoshopping the stats and points and pretending its normal he got caught very quickly. Now my meta is super chill and we just run with battlescribe. But for official tournament everyone is required to bring their books. In my case I would have to bring 5 books, plus print outs and 2 decks of cards. Do you not see my point?

[Helycon]

 

 

 

 

 

So what, now we have to purchase a 50 USD codex AND the index? So 75 USD for the rules? lol FML

Not only, I have to have main rulebook, Plus codex, Plus index (bike hqs), Plus FW AS Index (allFW goodies I have), Plus Chapter Approved for point updates, Plus FAQ/ERRATA print out and army list print out. This is what you technically need to bring to a game for a legal match If your opponent wants to see all the rules and point costs. You need 5 damned books and it hasnt been a year yet since 8th edition came out. Thank The Emperor for Battlescribe..

No. You need to have your Codex and rule booklet and point update from CA17 - which you can easily copy out and carry in your index. If you want to go fancy and add units from different books - Index/FW entries, then you of course need to bring rules for those as well.

 

And BatteScribe technically does not help you with this, as it's not "official" source, so in for the purpose of matched play, you should still have the rules with you.

What do you mean No? You said exactly what I said but you are trying to disagree with me. You need your Rulebook and Codex and CA for point updates thats already 3 heavy and thich books. Then I tend to run RW/DW so I need to have Index Imperium 1 for Bike HQs. I always take my Relic leviathan/contemptor/sicaran/rapiers so I need to have FW Index and there is nothing fancy about that at all (unless you are Anti FW elitist). Not counting 2 decks of cards for psychic powers and stratagems. And then FAQ/Errata print out and backup copy on your phone/tablet.

 

Now the problem with printout is that there was an :cuss that tried to cheat by photoshopping the stats and points and pretending its normal he got caught very quickly. Now my meta is super chill and we just run with battlescribe. But for official tournament everyone is required to bring their books. In my case I would have to bring 5 books, plus print outs and 2 decks of cards. Do you not see my point?

I think the point he is making, is simply that relying on Battlescribe can be scary. An error can screw you over badly. The points in print cannot. If those are wrong, it's GW's doing; the official source. If Battlescribe bis off, it's an unofficial tool, which leaves you, it's user, at fault for not checking the official sources.

[Stormxlr]

@Helycon Well honestly you are more likely to make a mistake trying to build a list from 4 different books, than BS to have a mistake. Every single person ive met that didnt use BS forgot to add points somewhere somehow. BS is community proof read and I havent seen a single mistake after the Codex have been out for a while and community have fixed all possible mistakes from BS. GW allows more typos and errors in their codex than does community in BS.

 

There is nothing scary about BS, points in print cant be wrong since those are points in print, its literally black in white (they only become wrong once new errata/faq is out). What can be wrong is human error not adding up points correctly. BS solves all those problems since its community proof read and all points are added for you by the program. If you messed up thats on you and there is nothing wrong with that. Either way my whole point is that I need 5 god damned books to legally play with my toys.

[Helycon]

@Helycon Well honestly you are more likely to make a mistake trying to build a list from 4 different books, than BS to have a mistake. Every single person ive met that didnt use BS forgot to add points somewhere somehow. BS is community proof read and I havent seen a single mistake after the Codex have been out for a while and community have fixed all possible mistakes from BS. GW allows more typos and errors in their codex than does community in BS.

 

There is nothing scary about BS, points in print cant be wrong since those are points in print, its literally black in white (they only become wrong once new errata/faq is out). What can be wrong is human error not adding up points correctly. BS solves all those problems since its community proof read and all points are added for you by the program. If you messed up thats on you and there is nothing wrong with that. Either way my whole point is that I need 5 god damned books to legally play with my toys.

Maybe read dtse's reply. He actually goes to a LOT of tournaments, where, apparently, people have used BS and had illegal lists. It's not a big deal in a friendly environment, but in a competitice setting it  is. And making a mistake adding up can happen, sure. That's why you don't do it once. 

 

I use BS, but I don't play comptetive, so I'm not too fussed. I'm annoyed by the fact the library structure currently is less than ideal when you have some FW units though.

[Stormxlr]

 

@Helycon Well honestly you are more likely to make a mistake trying to build a list from 4 different books, than BS to have a mistake. Every single person ive met that didnt use BS forgot to add points somewhere somehow. BS is community proof read and I havent seen a single mistake after the Codex have been out for a while and community have fixed all possible mistakes from BS. GW allows more typos and errors in their codex than does community in BS.

 

There is nothing scary about BS, points in print cant be wrong since those are points in print, its literally black in white (they only become wrong once new errata/faq is out). What can be wrong is human error not adding up points correctly. BS solves all those problems since its community proof read and all points are added for you by the program. If you messed up thats on you and there is nothing wrong with that. Either way my whole point is that I need 5 god damned books to legally play with my toys.

Maybe read dtse's reply. He actually goes to a LOT of tournaments, where, apparently, people have used BS and had illegal lists. It's not a big deal in a friendly environment, but in a competitice setting it  is. And making a mistake adding up can happen, sure. That's why you don't do it once. 

 

I use BS, but I don't play comptetive, so I'm not too fussed. I'm annoyed by the fact the library structure currently is less than ideal when you have some FW units though.

 

People making illegal lists is not the problem of BS but human error of people no reading/understanding relevant rules, BS is not a replacement of books by any means its a supplement to the  that is current spreading of unit rules. dtse's comment goes perfectly with what Im saying. To go to a tourament with a list I play I would need 5 books and some print outs plus 2 decks of cards and of course my list on my BS.

 

I agree Library structure of BS is not perfect, However it is the choice they made. They could have folded all FW units into individual codex library (like Eldar) but that would require editing and updating each individual codex library when new errata or CA comes out with point or rules updates for FW units which could cause further human error. Keeping all FW units under single library fixes this problem, while not a perfect solution it is one nevertheless.