Latest Dark Angels FAQ

[breng77]

BS is a problem for making illegal lists, I have used it in times where points were wrong, rules were wrong, allowed equipment was wrong.  I also find I make a lot more human errors on my battlescribe lists then I do when I do them up myself in excel.  I honestly usually use both and the if the points don't agree I double check again by hand.  As for needing a ton of information.  I typically get the digital edition of the book, and keep it on my phone, then print out the data sheets and rules I am using (and the points lists) and stick them in a binder.  I started doing it when I was using an index because it was much easier than flipping back and forth through the index, and it still is easier than flipping back and forth through a codex.  It is easier for my opponents to see my units etc.

[march10k]

 

So what, now we have to purchase a 50 USD codex AND the index? So 75 USD for the rules? lol FML

Not only, I have to have main rulebook, Plus codex, Plus index (bike hqs), Plus FW AS Index (allFW goodies I have), Plus Chapter Approved for point updates, Plus FAQ/ERRATA print out and army list print out. This is what you technically need to bring to a game for a legal match If your opponent wants to see all the rules and point costs. You need 5 damned books and it hasnt been a year yet since 8th edition came out. Thank The Emperor for Battlescribe..

 

 

You're complaining about FAQ and army list printouts?  That's hilarious.  Ditto the FW index.  Other than alternative patterns for standard kit (like Ryza pattern LR demolisher turrets or whatever), you've always had to have a FW book for the privilege of fielding FW units.  Last I checked, the FW Xenos index was thinner and lighter than the "Doom of Mymeara" book that now sits uselessly on my shelf.   I agree that it's asinine to exclude legal units for which there is no current model, like my bike librarian, from the codex, and that it violates the "you only need one book" promise in a way that having a separate book for FW kit does not.  But....the only additional burden relative to 7th is the index.  Would you rather not have the codex and still be working from the index?

 

 

 

 

So what, now we have to purchase a 50 USD codex AND the index? So 75 USD for the rules? lol FML

Not only, I have to have main rulebook, Plus codex, Plus index (bike hqs), Plus FW AS Index (allFW goodies I have), Plus Chapter Approved for point updates, Plus FAQ/ERRATA print out and army list print out. This is what you technically need to bring to a game for a legal match If your opponent wants to see all the rules and point costs. You need 5 damned books and it hasnt been a year yet since 8th edition came out. Thank The Emperor for Battlescribe..

 

 

No. You need to have your Codex and rule booklet and point update from CA17 - which you can easily copy out and carry in your index. If you want to go fancy and add units from different books - Index/FW entries, then you of course need to bring rules for those as well.

 

And BatteScribe technically does not help you with this, as it's not "official" source, so in for the purpose of matched play, you should still have the rules with you.

 

What do you mean No? You said exactly what I said but you are trying to disagree with me. You need your Rulebook and Codex and CA for point updates thats already 3 heavy and thich books. Then I tend to run RW/DW so I need to have Index Imperium 1 for Bike HQs. I always take my Relic leviathan/contemptor/sicaran/rapiers so I need to have FW Index and there is nothing fancy about that at all (unless you are Anti FW elitist). Not counting 2 decks of cards for psychic powers and stratagems. And then FAQ/Errata print out and backup copy on your phone/tablet. 

 

Now the problem with printout is that there was an that tried to cheat by photoshopping the stats and points and pretending its normal he got caught very quickly. Now my meta is super chill and we just run with battlescribe. But for official tournament everyone is required to bring their books. In my case I would have to bring 5 books, plus print outs and 2 decks of cards. Do you not see my point?

 

 

I'm moved to tears by the characterization of the index and chapter approved as "heavy" and "thich" (sic).   GW isn't burdening you with twenty pounds of extra weight, you're doing it to yourself.  I carry the rulebook, the codex, my list, my dice, and my models.  The FAQ is on the phone that I'd be carrying anyway.  If you are hauling around extra books and cards and things, it's because you choose to buy the cards and choose to run a list with models that are in other books.  I have those models, the bike librarian, the storm eagle, etc.  And if I want to put them in a list, it wouldn't occur to me to be offended that that involves bringing the index.  I don't see your point. 

[ValourousHeart]

 

 

So what, now we have to purchase a 50 USD codex AND the index? So 75 USD for the rules? lol FML

Not only, I have to have main rulebook, Plus codex, Plus index (bike hqs), Plus FW AS Index (allFW goodies I have), Plus Chapter Approved for point updates, Plus FAQ/ERRATA print out and army list print out. This is what you technically need to bring to a game for a legal match If your opponent wants to see all the rules and point costs. You need 5 damned books and it hasnt been a year yet since 8th edition came out. Thank The Emperor for Battlescribe..

 

You're complaining about FAQ and army list printouts?  That's hilarious.  Ditto the FW index.  Other than alternative patterns for standard kit (like Ryza pattern LR demolisher turrets or whatever), you've always had to have a FW book for the privilege of fielding FW units.  Last I checked, the FW Xenos index was thinner and lighter than the "Doom of Mymeara" book that now sits uselessly on my shelf.   I agree that it's asinine to exclude legal units for which there is no current model, like my bike librarian, from the codex, and that it violates the "you only need one book" promise in a way that having a separate book for FW kit does not.  But....the only additional burden relative to 7th is the index.  Would you rather not have the codex and still be working from the index?

 

Sorta on a related topic... game aids.

 

The rules pages in the main rulebook account for 12 pages of the main rulebook, which should be easy enough to create a smaller game aid version like they did with AOS.

 

GW already releases card packs with the stratagems, psychic powers, and tactical objectives.

That really just leaves your codex with the bulk of the rules that you need for a game.

 

AOS has card packs that include all of the units from a codex, plus some tokens.

In the different 40k starter sets, GW included reference cards with the stats and options that could be included in that box for each unit which are very similar to the AOS cards.

These should stand as a proof of concept for those who are in doubt.

 

We just need to convince GW to release card packs with the codex units like they do with AOS.

 

With all of the people complaining about the hardship of carrying books, we should have tons of support for this idea.

What do you guys think?

Layout any challenges that you can think of.

[Stormxlr]

 

You're complaining about FAQ and army list printouts?  That's hilarious.  Ditto the FW index.  Other than alternative patterns for standard kit (like Ryza pattern LR demolisher turrets or whatever), you've always had to have a FW book for the privilege of fielding FW units.  Last I checked, the FW Xenos index was thinner and lighter than the "Doom of Mymeara" book that now sits uselessly on my shelf.   I agree that it's asinine to exclude legal units for which there is no current model, like my bike librarian, from the codex, and that it violates the "you only need one book" promise in a way that having a separate book for FW kit does not.  But....the only additional burden relative to 7th is the index.  Would you rather not have the codex and still be working from the index?

 

I'm moved to tears by the characterization of the index and chapter approved as "heavy" and "thich" (sic).   GW isn't burdening you with twenty pounds of extra weight, you're doing it to yourself.  I carry the rulebook, the codex, my list, my dice, and my models.  The FAQ is on the phone that I'd be carrying anyway.  If you are hauling around extra books and cards and things, it's because you choose to buy the cards and choose to run a list with models that are in other books.  I have those models, the bike librarian, the storm eagle, etc.  And if I want to put them in a list, it wouldn't occur to me to be offended that that involves bringing the index.  I don't see your point. 

 

 

You are straight up contradicting your self, first you agree with me that its goes against the promise of having just a single book, then you are saying im burdened by having to carry all the books. Also you took a part of sentence out of a context and made fun of it? You know I wouldnt have to worry about having to carry around FAQ/ERRATA, Rulebook,Codex, Chapter Approved, Index, FW Index ( 5 bloody books) if they simply made a move to a decent digital software for an army building which would stop the whole codex invalidation and would save on paper, because seriously its a damn waste. They have been reprinting the same damn fluff for the last decade or longer, but thats besides the point.

 

Also I cant believe you used the word privilege, it's not a privilege of fielding FW units, ill field whatever the warp I please as long as its a legal list.  I choose to run a list I want, I shouldnt be punished for it as I am in your logic. By your logic i should be limiting myself from running units I want because their rules are stupidly spread apart across 3 books and points are in another book. Which technically makes my other books invalid.

 

And no GW is doing exactly that, they want us to spend money to buy those books. They are burdening us with carrying them to play games legally. I have models I like, I want to use. I am not doing it to myself at all, why should I be limited to using the models in a single book just because they fail at making things better and easier for their customers? They are burdening me in every meaning of that word. I bought those models, I spent MY money on them. They are not providing a comfortable modern service to use those models because every year they want to sell me a couple of books that will be outdated in a couple of month by another book that will be invalidated by another book in a couple of month but because rules are so spread out I still have to carry around a book thats already been invalidated.

 

Are you telling me you dont have the faction cards? You dont play maelstrom? Do you roll for objectives each time you need to generate one?

 

You dont see my point because you choose not to see it.

 

 

 

Sorta on a related topic... game aids.

 

The rules pages in the main rulebook account for 12 pages of the main rulebook, which should be easy enough to create a smaller game aid version like they did with AOS.

 

GW already releases card packs with the stratagems, psychic powers, and tactical objectives.

That really just leaves your codex with the bulk of the rules that you need for a game.

 

AOS has card packs that include all of the units from a codex, plus some tokens.

In the different 40k starter sets, GW included reference cards with the stats and options that could be included in that box for each unit which are very similar to the AOS cards.

These should stand as a proof of concept for those who are in doubt.

 

We just need to convince GW to release card packs with the codex units like they do with AOS.

 

With all of the people complaining about the hardship of carrying books, we should have tons of support for this idea.

What do you guys think?

Layout any challenges that you can think of.

 

Why waste good paper and chop down good trees? Why not step into the 21st Century and release a proper good army building software with all the rules. Those cards would be outdated and useless really quickly. Proper software can be updated and will never be obsolete.

[Pvnisher]

BS is a problem for making illegal lists, I have used it in times where points were wrong, rules were wrong, allowed equipment was wrong. I also find I make a lot more human errors on my battlescribe lists then I do when I do them up myself in excel. I honestly usually use both and the if the points don't agree I double check again by hand. As for needing a ton of information. I typically get the digital edition of the book, and keep it on my phone, then print out the data sheets and rules I am using (and the points lists) and stick them in a binder. I started doing it when I was using an index because it was much easier than flipping back and forth through the index, and it still is easier than flipping back and forth through a codex. It is easier for my opponents to see my units etc.

I have to figure out how to do an excel spreadsheet for list building I haven’t used excel in almost 20 years now lol. Is it that hard?

[breng77]

Depends on how advanced you want it to be. You can make a simple one easily.

[ValourousHeart]

 

 

Sorta on a related topic... game aids.

 

The rules pages in the main rulebook account for 12 pages of the main rulebook, which should be easy enough to create a smaller game aid version like they did with AOS.

 

GW already releases card packs with the stratagems, psychic powers, and tactical objectives.

That really just leaves your codex with the bulk of the rules that you need for a game.

 

AOS has card packs that include all of the units from a codex, plus some tokens.

In the different 40k starter sets, GW included reference cards with the stats and options that could be included in that box for each unit which are very similar to the AOS cards.

These should stand as a proof of concept for those who are in doubt.

 

We just need to convince GW to release card packs with the codex units like they do with AOS.

 

With all of the people complaining about the hardship of carrying books, we should have tons of support for this idea.

What do you guys think?

Layout any challenges that you can think of.

Why waste good paper and chop down good trees? Why not step into the 21st Century and release a proper good army building software with all the rules. Those cards would be outdated and useless really quickly. Proper software can be updated and will never be obsolete.

 

Well, first I would argue from an environmental perspective, trees and paper are infinitely renewable and recyclable, unlike over 90% of the components that go into the typical portable screen device that software would require.

Second I would argue for my eye health, I typically spend about 60+ hours a week on screens with my job and would like to get a small break away from them when I'm playing my hobby.

Third I would cite case studies that show diminished retention rates of materials read from screens vs paper.

Forth I would bring up the inconvenience factor of the relatively short battery life of most of the portable devices.

Fifth I would address the energy sector concerns about how to produce the energy requirements to power said device and the general cost of such and how that affects the overall cost of using digital media.

And sixth I would bring the conversation full circle with the environmental impacts those energy sources have.

 

Follow the logic... We don't want to hurt birds by chopping down their trees to print books because books just end up in the landfill, so we create electronic devices that mostly can't be recycled and end up filling our landfills and power them with wind farms that are decimating the bird population and are being built in areas that we just clear-cut.

 

But sure lets make it about me not wanting to live in the 21st century.

 

Now, all that aside did you not see that my comment was in response to people complaining about having to carry several heavy books.

Sure the response could be to tell them to sack up, but that would be very insensitive.

And I have heard people make the argument already that this hobby is expensive enough without having to add the cost of a tablet on top of the required books.

So I was making a suggestion on how to carrying less paper and that would be significantly less expensive than a tablet.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Alright, this isn't about the FAQ anymore.

Time out.