Your thoughts on the Primaris and lore progression

[Ishagu]

 

Why is the old lore so sacred that any sort of new lore is instantly unappealing to you?

 

I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I'm genuinely interested!

Are you seriously telling me that you have not seen any of the many posts detailing why people don't like the implementation of the new lore?

 

'Instantly unappealing'? Come on. This is the kind of patronising rubbish that makes threads like these degenerate so quickly.

 

Aside from the quality of the writing in parts of gathering storm, and it feeling rushed, I have no issues at all with "New Lore"

As I pointed out, Dark Imperium and Devastation of Baal - the first two big novels dealing with Primaris and the 42nd millenium were both great. I've not read the new SW story but apparently it has some interesting developments also.

My point is that as we can't even name the Fabrication General, it shouldn't be an issue that some powerful Master of Masters wasn't known to us until recently.

The lore focuses on characters when and if required.

 

In the new lore GW is giving all factions a face.

So then why have a Fabricator General at all? Or the High Lords of Terra? I mean, since they're not named characters they don't actually matter. That the Minotaurs were created and controlled by the High Lords has no basis at all and means nothing since we don't know the birthdate of the Lord Commander Militant. That the Fabricator General (who, may I remind you, IS a High Lord) can order the destruction of an entire Forge World with the wave of a hand, hasn't revealed his favorite color means he is pretty meaningless. Everyone needs to have a name and presumably have killed three Avatars of Khaine and the Swamlord twice to be of any importance to the lore these days.

 

You don't have to like it all, but I'm saying that the complaint about Cawl not being mentioned before is irrelevant because there are countless of super important characters who never receive any mention and countless others who do.

Cawl is a rogueish Dominus with new ideas - this is interesting and a fun departure from the status Quo. I'd much rather have Cawl as a central figure than some conservative who says no to everything.

[DuskRaider]

I think that's the bugbear of most nay sayers... it is for me at least... it was all rushed and ham fisted. IMO Dark Imperium was a joke and nothing more than a blatant sales pitch. When it becomes that obvious, you know the writing is atrocious.

 

 

 

Cawl is a rogueish Dominus with new ideas - this is interesting and a fun departure from the status Quo. I'd much rather have Cawl as a central figure than some conservative who says no to everything.

 

 

There's the crux of it, though... a "rogueish" anything would be dealt with in one way: labeled heretical and dispatched with extreme prejudice. Also the whole "conservative, say no to everything new" is kind of the whole plot point in 40K... they've become so ignorant of how the tech works they treat it as borderline magic and worship it. It's the (historical) Dark Age in Space.

 

Cawl is a rogueish Dominus with new ideas - this is interesting and a fun departure from the status Quo. I'd much rather have Cawl as a central figure than some conservative who says no to everything.

 

 

There's the crux of it, though... a "rogueish" anything would be dealt with in one way: labeled heretical and dispatched with extreme prejudice. Also the whole "conservative, say no to everything new" is kind of the whole plot point in 40K... they've become so ignorant of how the tech works they treat it as borderline magic and worship it. It's the (historical) Dark Age in Space.

[MysticTemplar]

 

 

Perhaps not. Cawl might have so much power that a schism is too costly to the mechanicus, or the fabricator geveral has no desire for one.

 

Cawl appears to suddenly? Not at all.

Can you name the Fabricator General of Mars? How about his second in command?

How about all the high Lords?

He's merely involved in events that influence the plot, he doesn't need a build up of years to do so. I'm very happy with Cawl as it gives the Machanicus an interesting character to develop stories around instead of it being a faceless organisation.

But he did appear suddenly at the destruction of Cadia. He was in hiding supposedly building all this wonderful new technology with... say, how was he able to do all that in the first place?

 

The current Fabricator General has not been named as far as I know, but how does that diminish the title or that of the High Lords of Terra? Their rank and power is all that needs to be known.

 

No one said he needs years of build up, but to have him burst on the scene with "HEY LOOK AT ALL THIS NEW ISH THAT I'VE BEEN WORKING ON FOR TEN MILLENNIA AND HEY LET ME RESURRECT A PRIMARCH WITH THE HELP OF THESE SUDDENLY NEW XENOS" is a bit ridiculous. I love that Ad Mech got a character, I think the model is absolutely wonderful and he adds much to an army that could easily slip into Necron (or Tyranid) levels of anonymity, but the way he's been handled, along with Guilliman's return and the Primaris and this and that has just been extremely hamfisted.

 

Edit: I should say the TRUE Fabricator General is still Kelbor-Hal, who as far as I know is still wandering the Warp somewhere with the true Mechanicum.

My point is that as we can't even name the Fabrication General, it shouldn't be an issue that some powerful Master of Masters wasn't known to us until recently.

The lore focuses on characters when and if required.

 

In the new lore GW is giving all factions a face.

 

 

Assuming that he isn't replaced, the Fabricator-General as of the 13th Black Crusade and Guiliman's return is named Raskian.

 

Honestly, the only problem I find with Cawl and his achievements is lack of foreshadowing - it all feels like it came out of nowhere.

[Marshal Loss]

 

 

 

Why is the old lore so sacred that any sort of new lore is instantly unappealing to you?

 

I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I'm genuinely interested!

Are you seriously telling me that you have not seen any of the many posts detailing why people don't like the implementation of the new lore?

 

'Instantly unappealing'? Come on. This is the kind of patronising rubbish that makes threads like these degenerate so quickly.

 

Aside from the quality of the writing in parts of gathering storm, and it feeling rushed, I have no issues at all with "New Lore"

As I pointed out, Dark Imperium and Devastation of Baal - the first two big novels dealing with Primaris and the 42nd millenium were both great. I've not read the new SW story but apparently it has some interesting developments also.

 

That has literally nothing to do with anything I just said.

[Charlo]

 

Why is the old lore so sacred that any sort of new lore is instantly unappealing to you?

 

I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I'm genuinely interested!

 

Are you seriously telling me that you have not seen any of the many posts detailing why people don't like the implementation of the new lore?

 

'Instantly unappealing'? Come on. This is the kind of patronising rubbish that makes threads like these degenerate so quickly.

 

Of course I have.

 

A lot of it is however just very dismissive and on the level of "not my 40k". I'm just trying to promote further discussion. Be that about why the old lore is better or more important to people or specifically what they don't find believable about the new stuff.

 

I don't see any issues with the words "instantly unappealing" either, its just the viewpoint I've seen many take.

 

Personally, i'd say the angry calling out of fellow frater as opposed to replying to the questions posed is what degenerates threads.

 

Edit:

 

Ishagu was replying to my question, but quoted you to keep all the discussion intact.

[Marshal Loss]

Of course I have.

 

A lot of it is however just very dismissive and on the level of "not my 40k". I'm just trying to promote further discussion. Be that about why the old lore is better or more important to people or specifically what they don't find believable about the new stuff.

 

I don't see any issues with the words "instantly unappealing" either, its just the viewpoint I've seen many take.

 

Personally, i'd say the angry calling out of fellow frater as opposed to replying to the questions posed is what degenerates threads.

 

Edit:

 

Ishagu was replying to my question, but quoted you to keep all the discussion intact.

 

 

Of course you have. Yet you decide to focus on a group of people, whom you are not quoting and are an absolute minority, that find the new lore 'instantly unappealing' and find the old lore 'sacred' in large font. If you can't see how stupid that is, and if you honestly believe that posting in childishly large front with absolutist terminology is a way to foster dialogue, I'm not sure what to say to you. I've seen far more posts with constructive feedback both for and against the Primaris than I have blind hate. How about engaging with those people instead of white-knighting.

 

There are many different kinds of people on the internet, and many are on display in this thread. The two most problematic are:

 

Fanboys - people that love everything GW does and defend it to the death, attacking others who do not share their view as 'haters'.

Haters - people that hate every decision GW does and attack it to the death, ridiculing those who just enjoy the hobby as it is.

 

Both are just as bad as each other. Don't be patronising.

[Ishagu]

This topic is supposed to be a positive reflection on the Primaris and 8th edition in general. Not another debate on why the lore is awful (even though it isn't, some people just don't like it).

[Captain Idaho]

=][= It's usually a good idea to not make assumptions regarding the actions of mods in topics. You can't see what was removed and we seldom comment on the details of what moderation is taken. The closure of a thread can be in direct relation to removed posts and where the topic is heading, after all.

 

If you don't like something then you can report it and the Mod team will review it.

=][=

[Charlo]

Honestly, I just made the question big for people to see it among the discussion. Nothing more. People often consider the old lore sacred and the new lore unappealing to them. You can look for hidden meaning in my words but there weren't any :)

 

Certainly agree with you on the two kinds of problematic people and I think everyone is guilty of being in both parties from time to time.

 

But as Ishagu has just said, the topic of this is strictly about Primaris.

 

Personally, they were very exciting to me, then I disliked them, now I'm back to thinking they're pretty okay!

 

I certainly don't want to buy any old marines outside of special units or for 30k anymore.

 

Have they themselves improved 40k though? I'm not sure I'd go that far, as it's apparent that the vocal community is very split on the subject, but the sales don't lie and people do love the big boys.

 

The lore surrounding them is what, in my opinion has improved 40k though. I'm glad to see it not stagnant anymore (though some bits were handled a touch quickly, I still hold the old Eye of Terror campaign sacred and am sad to see it retconned, but understand why it was). And to give us new products the lore needed to be advanced.

[Brother Casman]

Alright folks, hopefully we've all had enough time to cool off. I do want to remind you all of a few things, however.

 

It's okay to be upset or frustrated with what GW is doing or offering.

 

It's okay to decide that you're done with 40k (you can sell your stuff, or put it away in the basement, it's all good).

 

Likewise, it's okay to enjoy the new things GW has shown us, model and story-wise. Everyone has a different vision of what 40k is.

 

That said, it's not okay to fight with each other over opinions and differences in what you want 40k to be. Similarly, it's not okay to bring up real world political items. The B&C is for constructive discussions about 40k, so sometimes you're going to have to agree to disagree, and let it go.

 

=][=

[Claws and Effect]

This topic is supposed to be a positive reflection on the Primaris and 8th edition in general. Not another debate on why the lore is awful (even though it isn't, some people just don't like it).

Awful? Maybe not to everyone.

 

But to have things suddenly pop up out of thin air with zero foreshadowing is a hallmark of bad writing.

 

Cawl has been toiling away for 10,000 years on this project and no one had any clue he existed until now? C'mon, really?

 

I believe it was you yourself that mentioned the vast resources he can call upon and the potential millions of serfs he has working for him. All that and not a peep of him in any AdMech material ever? That strains credulity to the breaking point.

 

If he is a high ranking Dominus that can call on large chunks of Mars' resources, SOMEONE will have heard of him. Not a single Techmarine has come back from his training on Mars and mentioned this guy to his fellow Tech-brothers?

 

Sorry, still not buying it.

 

It's like your favorite TV show adding a new character in the season premiere and explaining that he's important to the plot and has been around off-camera the whole time. It invariably fails because people don't buy into it.

 

It's a simple fact: Dropping new characters into an existing setting with no foreshadowing and the flimsy explanation that he's been there all along is mechanically bad storytelling. Any writing professor on Earth will tell you the same thing.

[DuskRaider]

(even though it isn't, some people just don't like it).

(in your opinion)

[Ishagu]

Claws and Effect -

 

There's been basically no info about anyone in the 40k AdMech until recently, not just Cawl.

[chamberlainskeksil]

I see a lot of people saying Cawl couldn't have done this by himself. He isn't just some techpriest. He is a Dominatus Dominus - a master of masters. He commands large parts of Mars, he has thousands if not millions of serfs, assistants and tech-priests under his command. He'll have whatever resources he requires to develop any technologies. Let's stop twisting the facts to make it seem less believable.

 

For me it has nothing to do with believability, but the unnecessary heaping of all this stuff into one character.  I think one of the things Cawl has done is enough to make him cool.  Add another to make him awesome but once you add it all, it just gets too much.  A bit more delegation, the introduction of other tech-priest domini as his minions and things would seem a bit less fanfic in their presentation of him.  And now in response to someone else, I'll partially contradict this by presenting a possibility as to how he accomplished so much:

 

But he did appear suddenly at the destruction of Cadia. He was in hiding supposedly building all this wonderful new technology with... say, how was he able to do all that in the first place?

 

 

 

He's possibly a heretic who has commited a great crime and made abominable intelligences (or things so close to them that even Guilliman-- the beneficiary of Cawl's expertise-- is concerned about it).  So it's possible that he's more than a singular element at this point.  How many Cawl Inferiors are there?  What can those beings actually do?  Was it telling the truth about being entirely deterministic and unaware/unconscious?

[chamberlainskeksil]

If the sales pitch type combat descriptions of new Primaris kits are the low point of Dark Imperium, I think the chapter entitled "Cawl Inferior" is definitely one of the highlights.  As well as Guilliman's interactions with his liaison from the Ecclesiarchy.

[Charlo]

Claws and Effect -

 

There's been basically no info about anyone in the 40k AdMech until recently, not just Cawl.

 

Aye I think this hits the nail on the head.

 

We haven't really had any notable tech priests that people could name in 40k for a long time, perhaps maybe the Fabricator general, who, being a high lord, probably wouldn't make sense to be the one to do it.

 

Cawl could have been incredibly high ranking but unless his involvement was central to the plot there isn't a reason for us to have heard of him before now, especially if he was trying to keep the Primaris project a secret.

 

It does feel a bit out of nowhere, but with the insane bureaucracy of the imperium, the lies within lies, stagnation and control of information it actually seems plausible he could fly under the radar.

 

Guilliman welcoming his creations and doesn't brand him as a heretic is enough recognition for him to not be one. He is from an age where while technology was jealously guarded by the mechanicum but things were still being invented and improved upon with stigma.

[Mileposter]

Cawl's existence and pretense and introduction isn't so bad as long as this isn't the end of it. If it's just "Yay AdMech now have a character to use woo!" I'm probably going to end up on the 'meh' side of that bit. But as a setup to another inside problem? I think it's pretty decent.

 

If the reaction to Cawl showing up is "There are many issues with this!" and then the story highlights those very issues... Story matching reality.

 

The Cawl Heresy.

 

I'd be on board.

[DuskRaider]

One thing that does bother me, and I'm going back to the High Lords again, is these guys are supremely powerful AND hold not only the keys to the kingdom but to knowledge itself. Things that to the Greater Imperium and even powerful organizations seem like mystery are known to these four individuals. They have ruled over the Imperium for ten millennia, longer than the Emperor himself by a LONG shot. I find it suspect that they would roll over when Guilliman and his pet Dominus show up and relinquish all power.

 

They literally command the entire Imperium... they have the power to wipe both of these guys AND anyone who supports them off the map in an instant. We don't know how their appointment works either, it could be by household or appointed by the prior High Lord, thus keeping their power consolidated. I think even if the Emperor himself had somehow resurrected or jumped up from the Throne and said, "alright guys, I'm taking over again!" there would be a massive civil war. It's things like this, the idea that the shift of power that has been in place for 10,000 years would just smoothly transition with no conflict at all that really rubs me the wrong way. Something that could have added a huge nuance and dimension was completely skimmed over...

[Claws and Effect]

Claws and Effect -

 

There's been basically no info about anyone in the 40k AdMech until recently, not just Cawl.

The fact that he's AdMech has precisely nothing to do with my point.

 

It's the fact that a character that appeared out of blue is IMMEDIATELY the single most important person to the Imperium's war effort.

 

Seriously, without Cawl not a single one of the developments of Gathering Storm or Dark Imperium could have happened. There would be no Primaris and Guilliman would still be in stasis.

 

He went from not existing at all to being the linchpin of everything the Imperium has done in 8th edition. All in the span of a few chapters in a book.

 

I should mention that I don't have an issue with Cawl himself. He's actually a fairly interesting character in his own right. But I have a massive problem with the way he was introduced.

[Kinstryfe]

Replying to ClawsandEffect but not quoting because it'd be super long.

 

Mostly agree with everything there. I think Guilliman, especially after seeing his actions and thoughts during Imperium Secundus, is far less likely to tell his brothers "I am The Emperor and you will obey!" then to say "Oh My Emperor thank goodness you're here, I need your help and here's what's going on..." I honestly think if The Lion, Corax, Russ, The Khan, and Vulkan all showed up at the same time, I personally think that Guilliman would likely remain head of the Administration and Imperial Figurehead. The Lion would likely be the new Lord Solar, Russ would join his chapter and do wolfy things, and Corax and Vulkan would likely champion some social reforms, which may cause some headbutting but likely not bring them to blows. The Khan, honestly, did his own thing so much while he was around, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't show up to his Chapter a hundred years ago and just didn't feel like getting back to Terra yet.

 

Unrelated, but on the subject of the new lore and Primaris, I've said elsewhere that this is a new story telling format for GW. 2nd-7th editions were all pretty much set right at the end of the story as it was, and nearly every bit of fluff sat squarely between m30 and m40. The lore has always been presented very much as a timeline of established events, often many thousands of years in the "past".

The new fluff is an entirely different style. It's less "telling history" than it is a dynamic, changing medium more like a serialized novel or a comic book. I think a lot of the dislike may be a reaction to this change. I have a feeling that some years down the line, when the story of Primaris is out of Act I and a lot more stuff has happened, that it's going to read as a much more traditionally 40k story. They led with "Primaris and Cawl are awesome!" and just dropped some little hints of things that may be unveiled down the road. Cawl wanting to be Fabricator-General, stating that Primaris are verified to work with all 20 strains of geneseed, pointing out that none of the genetic flaws were purged but that they believe Primaris to be somehow less affected. There's definitely something big that will happen involving Cawl and Primaris down the road, and I suspect it will read much more like grimdark 40k than the current slightly-more-positive stuff.

[Gentlemanloser]

Can't C&P at work.

 

Just like to add that the list of codexes posted earlier has forgotten the poor Grey Knights.

 

We also got no new minis.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

Why is the old lore so sacred that any sort of new lore is instantly unappealing to you?

Isn't this the fallacy that m0nolith responded to on the first page of this thread?

 

The issue for most isn't 'oh noes, the change!', but rather 'this change is bad', it's the quality of the change that's the issue. Of course there's some degree of personal variation at play here, with people having different levels of tolerance for what they consider a good/bad change to the fluff.

 

As for 'sacred', imo it's better to think of it as 'liked/favourite', as the former implies a certain intractable, dogmatic mindset that's unfair to brand entire swathes of the fanbase with. Take the Space Wolf fluff for instance. There's a major divide amongst fans on the whole wolf vs Viking aspect, and some like the Thunderwolves, pawed Wulfen and Wolfy Wolfson nature of the recent offerings. Others prefer the older, more Nordic feel of the Chapter, when Wolves were a component of the character and look, rather than the OTT focus. As someone who falls squarely in the latter camp, the older SW fluff isn't some sacred, untouchable standard that the new fluff can't measure up to. It's the content I enjoyed more, and the new stuff fails to give me the same level of engagement and satisfaction the stuff it's essentially overwriting did.

 

Speaking personally, I was definitely disinclined to like the new fluff from the outset, I admit this. That wasn't due to the old fluff being 'sacred', but more of a loss of faith in the ability of the studio. End Times Fantasy was a flaming trainwreck of awfulness imo (even before they killed the setting), which torpedoed any faith I had in the studio to pull off setting advancement well. And while they performed consistent with my low expectations, it still hurts though seeing something you care about made worse by your reckoning. Specifically regarding the Primaris, the concept isn't too egregious imo. What they needed to do was spread it out a bit, work some of the potential from the wider setting into retroactive foreshadowing (especially something like the Cursed Founding), have more than one Magos involved (an earlier introduction for Cawl would've helped too, he just catalysed too many sweeping changes too quickly in real time). Essentially make it less of a massive, unexpected info dump, yet still leaving unanswered questions and issues (like the vehicles, Scouts and more detail on the Primaris only Chapters). As is, whatever the real background, it feels like the Studio was shown the models a month before Gathering Storm/8th edition etc. were due at the printers and told "we're selling these on date X, make something up to justify why, post haste". So what we got feels like a rushed, bolt on job, rather than solid worldbuilding around a new concept.

 

Hope that makes some kind of sense and isn't too negative for this thread (I know I'm generally one of the more negative 'XYZ' sucks posters around here...).

 

[chamberlainskeksil]

 

One thing that does bother me, and I'm going back to the High Lords [...] I find it suspect that they would roll over when Guilliman and his pet Dominus show up and relinquish all power.

 

 

 

I would actually really recommend The Emperor's Legion.  It's main narrator is Lev Tieron, the chancellor to the High Lords of Terra.  Given the situation on Terra at the time of Guilliman's arrival (which this novel covers specifically) it really could not have happened any other way than Guilliman was able to step in like he did.  They were effectively in shambles and had just spent all their political capital on dealing with an issue of the lex imperialis and the situation in Cadia and then Fenris.  And then when the Custodes basically bypass them and give Guilliman an audience with the Emperor directly, it's pretty much tied their hands.

 

The novel also does some work in not making Cawl the sole pylon expert.  As do their mention going all the way back to the original Eisenhorn trilogy.  Yeah, Cawl realised during the Gathering Storm what the true aim of the 13th black crusade was, but the general story of what the Cadian pylons were about was already established in 2001.  16 years before 8th edition.  And even in that novel redacted was attempting to redacted pylons redacted.  

 

 

[Commander Dawnstar]

 

Did people have this reaction to the Tau suddenly popping up?

Yes, the reactions to the introduction of the Tau were mixed, with some welcoming a new addition to the setting and others railing against it because it was "too mecha" in nature (paraphrasing). I can even recall some of the more doom-saying members prognosticating the end of the game setting as we knew it.

 

Just to touch on this again and bring it back to the Primaris issue: One of the big complaints with the initial implementation of the Tau was that they were far too 'good' and seemed to go against the established idea that everyone in 40k was painted in shades of grey, with their early portrayal lacking concepts like brainwashing Vespid with communion helms, forced sterilisation of human converts, individuals being lobotomised for acting outside their caste and the recurring theme of the Ethereals as dictators abusing their control over the other castes and making stupid self-interested decisions. Their aesthetics and focus on rapidly-developing technology in a setting heavily based in stagnation and a long-established visual style didn't exactly help matters.

 

We see a similar sort of response to the Primaris and general contemporary storytelling trends where there's a sense of the general feel of the universe shifting and moving in a more noblebright/optimistic direction (and I recognise the irony in that given that it certainly isn't in the macro sense). Much like the Tau, you have the essentially left-field introduction of a force which flies in the face of a lot of established 40k ideas and seems to lack the foundation in grimdark that makes it feel appropriate for the setting. We've seen people clamoring for news of some kind of flaw in the Primaris or for information that helps contextualise where all these new developments came from, or even for the big names in the setting to reject or call out the changes, because right now they feel like an idea that's been slapped onto the setting rather than something fully integrated with it. They've got a very AoS feel to them where we've gone from sudden and dramatic movement of the storyline to a timeskip and then a returned demigod unleashing his previously unmentioned legions of super soldiers upon the world to put an end to Chaos' time of triumph. It feels like a radical shift in the status quo that came almost out of nowhere.

 

That's really the core of my personal issue with the Primaris. There was no sense that we were building up to their arrival on the scene and the timeskip means that GW has been able to fast-track them into being the new normal with essentially no build or need to make them feel like they actually belong in the setting. Much like Age of Sigmar only really got somewhere with the Stormcast after focusing a huge amount of fiction on them, we really need lots more content like Dark Imperium that gives that Primaris their own character and looks to make them feel like more than just a new product line defined by its marketing bullet points - bigger and better Space Marines with bigger and better models. I thought the Greyshields were a fantastic idea for example ... but the setting has already moved on past that era and I wouldn't be surprised if we never see that concept touched on again. Outside of the occasional novel that delves into the past, GW is just going to expect us to take these sweeping changes in stride and indeed to accept that just about everyone else in the setting that matters would do the same.

 

There's great new models and potentially interesting storytelling opportunities, but this is not the story that I signed up for and got invested in. I think the Primaris and company could improve the setting but that GW hasn't done anything like enough work to make it feel like things are moving in that direction. Rather than turning Cawl, Guilliman and the Primaris into a potential Enemy Within and putting a huge focus on how this period of sudden change has shaken up the Imperium and all the pushback against these left-field figures trying to exert their authority over the established order (even if they're ultimately accepted genuinely or out of necessity) we've skipped straight to the finish line without establishing our cast or giving everything time to breathe. I think a lot of people who don't like the Primaris might have been much happier if 8th Edition had focused on all these actors as the outsiders having to force change in the immediate wake of the Great Rift's emergence rather than almost immediately making them the new status quo, with 9th Edition being the one that brought about the major timeskip. We're basically missing 200 years worth of stories that would help us appreciate the contemporary state of the universe.

[Ishagu]

You know guys, your complaints about Cawl can be applied to a lot of heroes in 40k.

 

There was a time before Yarrick. Suddenly this guy shows up in the lore and he's an incredible commissar, general without parallel and performs super human feats that earn him more respect from the Orks then they give to the super human Adeptus Astartes.