Lucerne Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 I dont know if this has been posted but Started to read the new Codex Adeptus Custodes codex, and came upon this gem, "The presence of the Adeptus Custodes also ensured that even the most traditional Chapters accepted the Primaris warriors into their ranks. One does not decline a gift from the Emperor's own hand, after all." ‘Through the artifice of the Martian priesthood were these warriors created. By the grace of the almighty Emperor are they given now to you.Silence your questions and instead rejoice at the honour done to you this day. You are handed the gift of hope by the immortal Master of Mankind himself, and you will accept it with sincere and solemn gratitud elest you be taken for the traitors that you profess to hate. ’ - Sanash Gallimedan, Emissary Imperatus to the Hammers of Dorn Chapter Accept or Die. It's so kind of Guilliman to swell the ranks of Chaos with new renegade chapters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4996659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3L Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Looks like the sales team got a bit heavy handed Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Oh boy, I hope the Codex comes with quick links to all the models and formations they repeat ad nauseum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Did they finally create a scenario out of thin air for the Ultramarines to have defended Terra now? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wargamer Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Chaos Custodes confirmed then. No Loyalist would be that retarded. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 =][= Quit with the trolling and then responding with rather course language =][= Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Christopher Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I dont know if this has been posted but Started to read the new Codex Adeptus Custodes codex, and came upon this gem, "The presence of the Adeptus Custodes also ensured that even the most traditional Chapters accepted the Primaris warriors into their ranks. One does not decline a gift from the Emperor's own hand, after all." ‘Through the artifice of the Martian priesthood were these warriors created. By the grace of the almighty Emperor are they given now to you.Silence your questions and instead rejoice at the honour done to you this day. You are handed the gift of hope by the immortal Master of Mankind himself, and you will accept it with sincere and solemn gratitud elest you be taken for the traitors that you profess to hate. ’ - Sanash Gallimedan, Emissary Imperatus to the Hammers of Dorn Chapter Accept or Die. So I see that in a GW addressed one of my major problems with the Primaris, but did this in a rather crude and underwhelming way. Again. Luckily I don't expect much, so there is little disappointment. Probably my biggest issue with the lore advancements regarding the Primaris is that I struggle to imagine Space Marine chapters accepting them as readily as they do (and despite the fluff snippets or several lines of monologue/dialogue from the recent publications stating that there is doubt or conflict in accepting the Primaris, the overall tone is that they are included into all chapters without much reluctance and are treated as an asset). Based on 'primary world' trends, I believe that independent and proud organisations such as Space Marine chapters (which are formed around notions of pride, honour, tradition, as well as rightful (if not "divine", since their descendants from the Emperor) superiority, as super-human, elite warriors), some with over 10,000 years of history would not be glad to receive 'reinforcements' that may be seen as their replacements or heretical intervention in the Emperor's design. I cannot imagine an organisation with a tradition as long as a SM has being open to novelty and supposed military/technological advancements that are to provide an edge in warfare. After all, chapters have proven to be resistant to such things for millennia, still using ancient relics, proven bolters and a basically unaltered array of weapons and vehicles. I think that the doctrine that made progress slow or non-existent in 40K, as staple of the setting for a long time, would not be abandoned overnight (or over the course of a hundred years). The idea that Space Marines accept reinforcements as an 'executive order' from a demigod/legendary hero/higher authority or even the Emperor himself is also quite difficult to embrace, as rigid organisations stand true to their ideas. I believe that even if the Emperor spoke, many would outright deny it, suspecting a plot of Chaos or other ruse; the same thing goes for a Primarch - to convince the Imperium (considering its size), and Space Marine chapters with their added independence and varied sets of beliefs, that the resurrected Gulliman (who despite begin a legendary hero and one of the Emperor's sons does not have to be recognised as a supreme authority and paragon by all chapters, right? after all, even loyalist Primarchs and their legions had their conflicts) is as good as GW paints him to be would take years upon years if it were possible at all (think about the Inquisition in If the Emperor Had a Text-to-Speech Device). Custodes might help here since they are so close to the Emperor and are respected throughout the universe; but the extent of their ability to persuade Space Marines and order them to be obedient is open to debate. So with the added fluff, the question is whether chapters would act 'reasonably' from our perspective (where we know for a fact that Gulliman is legit and Primaris have a good reputation and are superior in (arguably) every way) or would they act as any organisation with long-lasting traditions and rigid doctrines when faced with abrupt and fundamental changes, that is try to oppose or outright deny the obvious (take our primary world science which remains deaf to discoveries that threaten to undermine foundations of dominant paradigms). My understanding of 40K is that the latter is more probable and I'd prefer this to be the case since internal conflict in face of the external threats could make a fascinating narrative. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Most space marines chapters would only have cursory knowledge of what a Custode is or what they look like. If an ancient Pharoah showed up in DC tomorrow and demanded everyone listen to him, he’d be laughed at. The idea a Custodes is universally recognizable just shows the blatantly uncritical and uninterested nature of the neulore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 =][= Quit with the trolling and then responding with rather course language =][=Since my comment is gone I assume this was me.I could bet there are more mention of Guilliman than Valdor in the Custodes dex. No trolling, it's just, cmon we get it, Guilliman is back and doing awesome stuff and now the Ultramarines helped save Terra from Khorne, so they don't have to feel bad to have missed on the heresy. Pretty sure there were other chapters around, but only the Ultramarines are mentioned. A few times... The fact that there are Custodes going around telling to chapters to accept Primaris as a gift from the Emperor or be a traitor leaves a sour taste in my mouth, because the Emperor had nothing to do with it. My only gripe with the codex. Valdor is missing, so he survived the heresy. That's good to know, and I'm sure he will appear in 40k soon enough. Now with what purpose I wonder? Will he be the Custodes "Primarch" sort of guy? I will follow developments with interest. I can't even bother anymore with Primaris. They need to be embraced fully, since GW is obviously pushing towards them. So just stop beating around the bush and go on release a few more things to help develop the Primaris range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wargamer Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Honestly, the simple solution seems to be that Chapters who don't want Primaris just send them to their deaths. Having proof that they are inferior to REAL Marines, they simply refuse to make more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Wasting significant imperium resources for a personal agenda is Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 waits patiently for new space wolf codex, with hopes of interesting lore around the wolves view on the primaris. I really hope the wolves highjack the primaris "loadouts and squads" and ad there own funk to them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lay Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Why would Codex-abiding chapters take issue with the Primaris in the first place? If approval by Guilliman (whose teachings they already follow) and the Emperor (even if it's just via the Custodes) isn't enough then what is? Sure, the lore screws over anyone who wants a Primaris-free Chapter in the current timeline, but I don't see much room for conflict in-universe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Nothing is forcing people to run Primaris in their armies. Even if the lore for your chapter says they are a part of it, it doesn't mean they'll feature in every deployed force. Your models would simply represent a force sent out without any Primaris in it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucerne Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Wasting significant imperium resources for a personal agenda is Heresy. So's a xeno-tainted apostate launching a coup against the Imperium's ruling class and most sacred limiting structures. Nothing is forcing people to run Primaris in their armies. Even if the lore for your chapter says they are a part of it, it doesn't mean they'll feature in every deployed force. Your models would simply represent a force sent out without any Primaris in it. Having them be Iron Warrior-tier cannon fodder that amounts to nothing but a distraction for the true brotherhood of the Chapter seems about right for how many chapters would take these crimes against their chapter's geneseed. The question is how many wouldn't have the patience or pragmatism to take that approach. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 It's not Heresy if you're the winner. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucerne Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Why would Codex-abiding chapters take issue with the Primaris in the first place? If approval by Guilliman (whose teachings they already follow) and the Emperor (even if it's just via the Custodes) isn't enough then what is? Sure, the lore screws over anyone who wants a Primaris-free Chapter in the current timeline, but I don't see much room for conflict in-universe. Codex Chapters are extremely dogmatic, the geneseed is sacred and handed down in an unbroken line from their ancestors, and dogma and ritual are all instead of independent thinking. Geneseed tampering is an abomination to 40k and the Primaris are blatantly not actually members of their Chapters so much as heretek creatures. Hell, the notion of "progress" and "advancement" is a heresy in 40k! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathspectersgt7 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Why would Codex-abiding chapters take issue with the Primaris in the first place? If approval by Guilliman (whose teachings they already follow) and the Emperor (even if it's just via the Custodes) isn't enough then what is? Sure, the lore screws over anyone who wants a Primaris-free Chapter in the current timeline, but I don't see much room for conflict in-universe. Because not all Chapters follow the Codex too a letter . And most Chapters are mostly Independent And do not like outside influences sticking their nose in where it does not belong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I think that with the galaxy split in two and after the Emperor's Palace itself was under seige by Daemons, the old traditions and dogmas will have to be re-evaluated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I agree with your points Ishagu. And I don't mind running Primaris. But I'm a sort of purist kind of guy. I don't want mix old marines with Primaris. I want a pure Primaris list. But I need the options :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathspectersgt7 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Well looks like the Custodes need to step it up if daemons got that close . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I think that with the galaxy split in two and after the Emperor's Palace itself was under seige by Daemons, the old traditions and dogmas will have to be re-evaluated. Yes, because this is the first time the galaxy has been split in two and Terra consumed with war in the ten thousand years Cawl was hiding the Primaris. Except, of course, for that time the Orks attacked Terra, that time the Imperium was divided in two by Goge Vandire, that other time the Imperium was divided by Civil War, and the countless times some kind of cult or rebellion ignited an insurgency. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormxlr Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Considering that the likes of Black Templars(and many other chapters) saw a razorback as unproven technology after 3000 years of its STC discovery/use, while the STC itself was tested for 500 years by Mechanicus, Its quite amazing that a any chapter at all accepted any of that unproven new tech. Moreover tempering with the holy gene-seed of their Primarchs. Second of all the problem of supply lines. Those new Primaris Bolters all need new calibers/types of bolt shells. The new Grav Land Raider uses autoguns, and new types of missiles, I remember that Space Marines stopped using Autocannons because it was hard to resupply them with ammo. The only ammo space marines used were standard missiles for launchers and 3 types of bolt shells, pistol, standard and heavy. All other weapons were energy based (plasma/melta/las/grav) so could be recharged right on the ship. Considering that only Mars had new Primaris gear, none of the new units would be able to resupply AT ALL. None of the Forge Worlds in the whole galaxy had the designes to produce new equipment furthermore none of the Forge Worlds in the whole galaxy would accept the production of new equipment because HERESY, even if they did accept it they would need to restructure their supply lines to accommodate for production of new equipment plus, redesign their production lines. Games Workshop did not take their setting or Primaris lore seriously at all. They ruined 30 years of world building in a single year. They did not take into account any more or less realistic war logistics. Half the galaxy went dark, trillions of people and thousands of worlds will be starving. Supply lines were completely destroyed. War is all about logistics, logistics, logistics. Instead of a realistic war scenario what we got was a sunday morning cartoon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wargamer Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Wasting significant imperium resources for a personal agenda is Heresy. You mean like the resources wasted creating the Primaris in the first place? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Wasting significant imperium resources for a personal agenda is Heresy. You mean like the resources wasted creating the Primaris in the first place? Waste? It was the Emperor's will. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343383-your-thoughts-on-the-primaris-and-lore-progression/page/22/#findComment-4997598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.