How Stabby are the Angels?

[Firepower]

Could be a simple question, maybe not...but how good are BA as a pure assault army today?  Can they go toe to toe with melee heavy dexes like Chaos Marines in a stab-off?  Are they largely shooty like C:SM with a bit of stabby flare?  Lists I've seen seem to still lean towards the shooty Primaris units, and simply enjoy also being able to decently stab things if the situation calls for it, or Scout spam for CP with a small peppering of dedicated assault units.

 

I haven't got the codex so I don't know what special rules you lot have now, or what your Characters do, Death Company stats, etc. 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Firepower

[Race Bannon]

The knife goes deeper when it comes unseen and from the shadows ...

 

Just sayin'

 

:P

[brother_b]

Pretty freaking stabby. That +1 to wound is amazing. I'm in the middle of a game right now (called out to work so couldn't finish). They've been throat punching Tyranids all game long. Tyranids have been doing some of their own nasty shenanigans too, but nothing like wounding gaunts on 2+ with regular intercessors.

 

My scouts have been handling themselves in CC as well, and the DC dread is scary. 

Edited January 16, 2018 by brother_b

[The Unseen]

A total melee army? No. We don't have the numbers to do it vs another melee army. Our actually threatening melee units cost to much. But a solid shooting core backed up with several melee units is for sure doable.

[Pendent]

We are extremely stabby, one of the stabbiest in the game. We're much stronger as a combined arms force than pure assault though. I prefer to think of assault elements as being more like a scalpel than a knife

[Blackcadian]

I agree, we‘re both shooty and stabby, and our respective best units can hang with the best from other armies easily.

 

What I love about BA right now is that I can build a nasty firebase with a Lt and a Captain, and at the same time bring highly mobile dedicated melee units to insert wherever they’re needed. And I can easily change the balance of these two army parts, so it never gets dull. I‘m having a lot of fun right now!

[Zynk Kaladin]

Death Guard

 

REEEEEEEE

 

In terms of CC prowess in a vacuum a good Chaos list is the clear winner, specifically Khorne Berserkers, Warp Talons/Sorcerer and/or a Daemon Prince with Malefic Talons.  However, our strengths are mobility and hitting hard on a charge, which we are more likely to get.  If you play smart and with a bit of luck you can win a CC blood-off against a strong chaos CC list.  I had a 7 man Sanguinary Guard squad with the Sanguinor, a Sanguinary Priest, and a Sanguinary Ancient wipe out two 10 man KB squads and an Exalted Champion and I only lost 2 SGs.  I've also had a 10 man Vanguard Vet unit wipe KBs out only to be charged by another KB squad and get ganked.  A good rule of thumb:  If you charge it will be absolutely glorious and beautiful to behold... if they charge you're probably dead.

 

Competitive-wise a pure CC BAngels army is difficult to play, but a few well-timed strategems, a few well-positioned units, and an eye on the objectives will see the day won and blood all over the table.  Personally, I run a shooty core with a strong CC peripheral and it's done well so far.  What you choose for that CC portion of the list is entirely up to you: Van Vets, Death Company w/ Lemartes, Sang Guard, Sanguinor, Mephiston, Sang Priest are all good options.

[Zynk Kaladin]

The knife goes deeper when it comes unseen and from the shadows ...

 

Just sayin'

 

 

I prefer a sword applied directly to the forehead 

[Firepower]

 

Death Guard

 

REEEEEEEE

 

 

 

Shhhh...you saw nothing.

 

Glad to hear all of this though.  The OG Orange Marines deserve to be top tier stabbers

 

Now if only I could afford another army...and paint more than 2 units a year...

 

What special rules are there that affect mobility/capability in melee?

Edited January 16, 2018 by Firepower

[Zynk Kaladin]

 

 

Death Guard

 

REEEEEEEE

 

 

The OG Orange Marines

 

 

Brother-Templar, please report to your local chaplain for penitence paddling. 

 

Here's some fun options off the top of my head:

 

- Our librarians get Wings of Sanguinius spell, which gives them a 12" move in the psychic phase (yes, libby dreads too).  Mephiston is a beast with this.

- Unleash rage spell gives +1A to a chosen unit within 12"

- Upon Wings of Fire lets you move a JP unit anywhere on the table as long as it's 9" away from an enemy.  Awesome strategem.

- Lemartes gives rerolls to charges for Death Company units.  This with Descent of Angels on the DC squad giving them 3d6 to charge is pretty rad.

- Mephiston with Quickening (+d3A) and Red Rampage (+d3A) at strength 10 is glorious.

- Sanguinor gives a 6" +1A aura.  Great for buffing Sanguinary Guard because they get rerolls to hit if they're within 6 of their warlord.  Also great with Death Company and unleash rage giving them 6 attacks on the charge!

- Sanguinary Priest gives +1S.  Combine this with the +1 to wound rolls chapter trait and you're chainswords are wounding marines on 2s.

- Captain Smashypants

[redshadow]

If you take a look through this website you'll find everything you need :)

 

https://m.vk.com/sorcererbk

 

Scroll down for the BA

Edited January 16, 2018 by redshadow

[Grazcruzk]

Zynk, you beat me to it. All good points! Don't forget Decent of Angels, a stratagem which allows a unit to charge 3d6" when arriving on the battle field via jump pack. Has potential to combo with Upon Wings of Fire. For about 26 meltabombs you can have a captain with 6-8 attacks on the charge with a D4 thunder hammer and you cannot be overwatched

[Firepower]

 

 

 

Death Guard

 

REEEEEEEE

 

 

The OG Orange Marines

 

 

Brother-Templar, please report to your local chaplain for penitence paddling. 

 

 

My dear cousin, my 20ish year old can of Blood Red primer most definitely is, and has always been, orange.  As are the Angels in the Angels of Death codex sitting in my stasis vault.  Venerables like myself are kept around not only for our paddlin' prowess, but our long memories.  ;)

 

Anyway, those are some gloriously nasty melee rules.  Got me pining for my old days, both Templar and Angel alike.

[Jolemai]

As per our board rules please don't provide links to copied GW IP.

[Panzer]

We're decently stabby with some very stabby units plus we have great mobility and means to get our very stabby units into melee.

However the best BA lists will always balance stabbing and shooting. It's a Space Marine army after all and the edition still favours shooting over stabbing.

[Charlo]

BA play like marines, but incredibly aggressive. They put out a lot of attacks that wound things easily and have easy access to jump packs to get them into combat.

 

Sounds great, right?

 

Well that's only half the story - with just the above they' be mediocre, a marine army with an assaulty flair that isn't really effective due to how combat works in 8th.

 

It's characters (including buff auras), Stratagems etc that push them to the next level. Zynk summariesed it pretty well but there are also charging 3D6 from deep strike, fighting a second time in the fight phase, fighting again for a hero when it dies, as well as the previously mentioned "Smashypants" (I don't like the name, the old IH's one was cooler Smash er...)

 

But what is Blood Smasher (there, i've renamed him for the benefit of all!)

 

A Captain fallen to the Death Company (for one CP) with a Warlord trait that adds a point of damage to a Thunder Hammer, turning him into a S8 4D Monster capable of crushing most big nasties on the charge.... Who with CP investment, can land from deep strike and charge 3D6 with a re-roll etc

 

It's good to be red.

[Panzer]

BA play like marines, but incredibly aggressive. They put out a lot of attacks that wound things easily and have easy access to jump packs to get them into combat.

 

Sounds great, right?

 

Well that's only half the story - with just the above they' be mediocre, a marine army with an assaulty flair that isn't really effective due to how combat works in 8th.

 

It's characters (including buff auras), Stratagems etc that push them to the next level. Zynk summariesed it pretty well but there are also charging 3D6 from deep strike, fighting a second time in the fight phase, fighting again for a hero when it dies, as well as the previously mentioned "Smashypants" (I don't like the name, the old IH's one was cooler Smash er...)

 

But what is Blood Smasher (there, i've renamed him for the benefit of all!)

 

A Captain fallen to the Death Company (for one CP) with a Warlord trait that adds a point of damage to a Thunder Hammer, turning him into a S8 4D Monster capable of crushing most big nasties on the charge.... Who with CP investment, can land from deep strike and charge 3D6 with a re-roll etc

 

It's good to be red.

Thanks for the re-name. I always refused to call him smashypants. I think I'll just go with Captain Smash tho. :P

Also you forgot the +1d3 attacks Stratagem for him which I'd use basically always since it costs only 1CP. ^^

[Xenith]

Running a pure assault BA army, while on paper would appear to work and make the most of our rules, would probably be not so good. 

 

BA, probably always, have worked best when played like a codex marine army with maybe a slightly greater emphasis on assault. The Red Thirst makes us a little more proficient there.

 

The BA army still needs a solid firebase and footslogers to clear chaff, crack transports and take objectives. We have an advantage in mobility and pressure. Our rhinos can move a little faster sometimes, we can reposition jump pack units at will, and secure a 3d6 charge when needed to turn the tide. 

 

If you want to go with numbers, basic assault marines or vanvets with 2x chainswords can put out a lot of wounds via the red thirst, so 15 guys in a crusader transfers directly from Templars to BA. 

[Spagunk]

Could also call him captain caveman since he definitely has similar behaviors.

[Panzer]

Could also call him captain caveman since he definitely has similar behaviors.

Fighting with a hammer = being a caveman. Okay then. 

[barjed]

Combined Arms is the way to go. In a way, Blood Angels are better at being generalists than most of the regular chapters. I also believe that we are one of the best SMs for fielding large swathes of Primaris marines. Red Thirst is great on the +1A Primaris statlines. With the power sword now back for Intercessor Sergeants our troops can pack some punch in CC.

 

Standard of Sacrifice is also one of the best relic for a foot-slogging shooty firebase.

[Spagunk]

 

Could also call him captain caveman since he definitely has similar behaviors.

Fighting with a hammer = being a caveman. Okay then. 

 

 

Fighting with a hammer = fighting with a club = saturday morning cartoon analogy.

 

[Panzer]

 

 

Could also call him captain caveman since he definitely has similar behaviors.

Fighting with a hammer = being a caveman. Okay then. 

 

 

Fighting with a hammer = fighting with a club = saturday morning cartoon analogy.

 

 

I know what you were aiming at. Doesn't make the post better tho. ^^

[Brother Crimson]

Nah I’d still call him captain spectacular.

 

Back on track with op I find blood angels to be on par in melee with chaos except for khorne berserkers. These bastards hit so hard that you need to cripple them from a good distance. Lucky for us they don’t fly.

 

Another matchup I was surprised is tyranid. DC do surprisingly well against genestealers and carnifexes.

[Damon Nightman]

I think it was a fine post Spagunk and knew what you meant ;)

 

A lot of people that don't play BA around me tell me that BA are the best assault army now and amazing at stabbing... "charging from deepstrike 3d6 is amazing! I can't beat it!" they say... however, they all tell me this without providing any proof or tourney results so idk...