Combat Squads

[justicarius6]

Alright, I think we can all broadly agree that the combat squad ruling is pretty useless for Marines. Other than the very unrealistic scenario of running out of slots in detachments for your units there is never a good reason to not take two small squads of X over one large squad of X for reasons such as sergeants, access to weapons etc.

 

Now, there is also the stratagem to combat squad a unit mid-battle. This of course though costs 1CP and has the caveat that the unit you choose can't have taken casualties.

 

Now here's my suggestion. Remove the stratagem and make the Combat Squad ability universally usable mid-game. This would add some much needed tactical flexibility back to Marine lists, give them a good chance to compete with the low drop armies around, make the Combat Squad rule useful and remove a worthless stratagem in one fell swoop.

 

Thoughts?

[breng77]

I disagree that it is useless, it is just situational and better for some types of squads than others.  The squad I find most often considering it is Inceptors. Having one big squad is useful if you have a large target to take care of, but splitting to 2 smaller squads might be a good idea if there is not 1 larger target.  I will caveat that I do this most as Dark Angels with plasma inceptors.  The squad size matters for stratagem use.  For vanilla marines there really is not an equivalent stratagem, the closest one I can see is Bolter Drill on Bolter inceptors.

 

 

I think a good fix would be that the combat squads count as 1 unit for deployment purposes(similar to vehicle squadrons, but without the range restrictions), this would make it an ability to help with number of drops while still allowing MSU.  So they would deploy at the same time, count as 1 unit, but be able to deploy in different spots.  This would have good combos with the Ravenguard infiltration, deepstriking etc.

 

For the tactical flexibility stratagem I think 3 changes would make it more useful

1.) change from 10 models to full size squad, right now you cannot combat squad Inceptors, Aggressors, scout bikes, etc

2.) Allow those squads to split into whatever they are allowed to by the combat squad rules (ex. Scout bikes into 3 squads of 3)

3.) Change the timing to end of the movement phase. (This would allow deepstriking a big unit then splitting, using speed of the raven on Bikers then splitting etc)

[justicarius6]

Well, do note that I didn't say it was totally useless. It is extremely situational though, you example does provide a worthwhile usage of it.

[breng77]

True, you are correct that 80% of the time you are better off taking 2 small squads instead of a single squad and combat squading.

[Kinstryfe]

Marines supposedly being ultra flexible, I could actually see justification for it working either way. They could combat squad any unit of 6-10 models into 2, or I could see being able to "mob up" any 2 units of Tactical, Devastator, or non-jumppack Assault Marines into a single larger unit of 10 or fewer models to help mitigate morale to an extent. Maybe only allow it if both Squads started as 10 strong to avoid shenanigans.

 

But being able to combat squad for free would imho make a lot of sense.

[CCE1981]

To help make combat squads a more viable option I think when you purchase the tenth man one of them should be a “demi-sergeant”. Give him access to a combi- weapon or a melee weapon. The sergeant would lead one squad and the demi-sergeant a second.

[Kallas]

I could see being able to "mob up" any 2 units of Tactical, Devastator, or non-jumppack Assault Marines into a single larger unit of 10 or fewer models to help mitigate morale to an extent.

The irony being that "mobbing up" would make them more vulnerable to morale 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

To help make combat squads a more viable option I think when you purchase the tenth man one of them should be a “demi-sergeant”. Give him access to a combi- weapon or a melee weapon. The sergeant would lead one squad and the demi-sergeant a second.

 

Cough.  Corporal.  Cough.

[CCE1981]

 

 

To help make combat squads a more viable option I think when you purchase the tenth man one of them should be a “demi-sergeant”. Give him access to a combi- weapon or a melee weapon. The sergeant would lead one squad and the demi-sergeant a second.

Cough. Corporal. Cough.

I was trying to make it 40k-ish Mr. Ain’t Ready For the Marines Yet. ;). Unless you really wanna Move ARound In Navy Equipment. Lol

[Claws and Effect]

10 man Tactical squad with a heavy weapon, a special weapon, and a combi weapon.

 

You can split the squad so you have all the better weapons in one 5 man squad, and nothing but bolter guys in the other.

 

Then you have the weapons squad sit still so the heavy guy doesn't get penalized for moving, while the bolter guys run ahead to claim an objective.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Alternatively, since heavies are long range and specials are short, you take the sarge and special in one squad and the heavy in the one. The heavy is stationary for shoitung, the specials maneuver for objective taking and bringing their shorter ranged weapons to bear.

[Leonaides]

So a 2nd ed standard split...

[justicarius6]

So a 2nd ed standard split...

Rogue Trader actually if I remember rightly, but then it was mainly done just to get around unit cohesion restrictions and most squads were split into 1 man units at the beginning of the game! :P

[Daigo Cannon]

I don't see why this should be a stratagem or make it free for some marine units. As mentioned we are already paying the price of 1 Sargent less in the field that is a -1 leadership and -1 attack when compared to a 5 man squad out of the barracks.

[MeltaRange]

I think it would instantly be a winner if they allowed a split at any unit size instead of just a Max sized unit into halves. Could be useful to split a smaller squad in order to grab multiple objectives or force opponent to split fire. I know I'd personally use it a decent amount... Isn't that the point GW? To use them?

[Toxichobbit]

I don't see why this should be a stratagem or make it free for some marine units. As mentioned we are already paying the price of 1 Sargent less in the field that is a -1 leadership and -1 attack when compared to a 5 man squad out of the barracks.

 

Plus loosing the Sergeant's upgrade options.

[justicarius6]

I think it would instantly be a winner if they allowed a split at any unit size instead of just a Max sized unit into halves. Could be useful to split a smaller squad in order to grab multiple objectives or force opponent to split fire. I know I'd personally use it a decent amount... Isn't that the point GW? To use them?

I don't think it's necessary to go so far with combat squadding, plus I can see big abuses from it too. For ex. A tactical squad splits into 10 men on an objective. Those ten marines now have to be individually picked off to clear them from the objective.

[MeltaRange]

 

I think it would instantly be a winner if they allowed a split at any unit size instead of just a Max sized unit into halves. Could be useful to split a smaller squad in order to grab multiple objectives or force opponent to split fire. I know I'd personally use it a decent amount... Isn't that the point GW? To use them?

I don't think it's necessary to go so far with combat squadding, plus I can see big abuses from it too. For ex. A tactical squad splits into 10 men on an objective. Those ten marines now have to be individually picked off to clear them from the objective.

 

 

It's not unlimited splits, because it's a stratagem you can only use it once per turn.  I'm just saying it would be nice if you could split a unit of 7 into a 4 & 3.  Or 3 into 2 & 1.  

[justicarius6]

I agree with being able to split at any number and not just max sized. Seems silly a unit of 9 can't split down while a unit of 10 can.