Specifically tailored Terminator units still awesome?

[battle captain corpus]

Hey folks!

 

So I'm list building at the moment and looking at how feasible specifically tailored Terminator units are. Back in the day 5 man squads with all the same combi weapon and a heavy weapon were all the the rage, is this still the case?

I'm looking at:

- 5 man unit with 4 combi flamers and a heavy flamer

- 5 man unit with 4 combi meltas and a heavy flamer

And then either a ten man unit or two 5 man units with normal combi bolters and autocannons?

 

How feasible are these units now? I'll be teleporting all of them in game. I'm assuming they're all as useful as they used to be but I'd value some help!

 

Many thanks guys!

 

BCC

[Are Verlo]

Flamers are a bit weaker now with regards to teleport. After teleporting you have to set up more than 9" away from the nearest enemy model. This is unfortunate when most flamer-type weapons have 8" range.

 

There are ways to move the models closer after telporting, such was via warptime. Then again this is committing a lot of resourses to fire some flamers.

 

Melta do work ok, but as stated above, the 9.001" away means you cant teleport and get within half range of combi-meltas.

 

Plasma termies, with mark of Slaanesh work crazy well. Rapidfire plasma fires 2 shots at 9.0001" - 12" and mark of S allows for the "shoot twice" stratagem.

 

These are the reasons for plasma>melta>flamers on teleporting termies.

[WarriorFish]

Deep striking in is great, but weapons with insufficient range suffer for it so I'd only consider the heavy flamer - and that's just if I saw good enough opportunity to use it behind the first turn arrival. I'd go with other combi-weapons as mentioned. Melta is nice, but on the arrival misses out on its advantages so along with the general performance of plasma you tend to see that more.

[battle captain corpus]

Looks as though I'll be hacking some combi weapons apart and grafting on plasma's potentially then! :)

 

What about big units of ten walking across the board, I'm imagining these are still feasable? They become bullet magnets but it does stop my other units becoming shot up?

 

BCC

[WarriorFish]

With the Detachment system you're almost certainly better off with splitting the squad. Same amount of Termies to wreck things and be cool, but more tactical options and less of an obvious D2 fire magnet :)

[ChazSexington]

I'd go with plasma and MoS, unless you have some other mechanism of delivery or plan on Warptiming them. Melta is awful IMHO this edition; it's either lascannons or plasma.  

 

Looks as though I'll be hacking some combi weapons apart and grafting on plasma's potentially then!

What about big units of ten walking across the board, I'm imagining these are still feasable? They become bullet magnets but it does stop my other units becoming shot up?

BCC

 

It could work, but you're liable to get shot up pretty badly, depending on your meta. In my experience, all Guard squads have 1 plasma gun, which they'll overcharge and use orders (Cadians) to re-roll all missed to Hit rolls, then wound on 2+, leaving you with a 5++.

 

If you have 20 Terminators, you could take a TDA Sorcerer and split them into 2x5 and 1x10.

Deployment: Put 10 in in Deep Strike Reserve with the Sorcerer and hide the other 10 as well as you can (especially if you think you won't go first). 

T1: March out of cover, teleport in with the rest, Warptime into CC range, soften units up with massed plasma fire, then wreck face and hope as many as possible are running at this point. 

 

I wouldn't say it's the most competitive thing to do, but it could work, especially if you have some Cultist screens to soak up mortal wounds. Just marching straight up, even with support, is gonna get them killed, fast. Termies are not as tanky as they feel like they should be. 

Edited January 17, 2018 by ChazSexington

[micahwc]

I'm considering running mine with a single lightning claw and combi-bolter. It keeps them relatively inexpensive and makes them really good at killing infantry. Just a theory since I haven't tried it yet.

[Maschinenpriester]

I really Love Plasma-'nators. With the stratagem they make a good assasin unit.

My brother is is pretty afraid, when they chill in my teleport chamber waiting to wreak some havoc with overcharged plasma shots on his wraithknight or Illum Zar.

I always take a Sorcerer and lord in terminator armour with me though.

 

If you have difficulties with hordes - kit them out with kobi bolters and autocannon. Autocannon will punch some holes in vehicles, while the rapid fire pounds out 4 shots per guy. And then Repat with that stratagem.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Maschinenpriester

[Khornestar]

I have yet to run Terminators in 8th, but I think I'd either run them with plasma for obvious reasons, or combi-bolters for chaff. In any case, drop a lord or have a prince nearby for the re-rolling 1's to hit.

 

Combi-flamers sound cool, but need Warptime to get in range. Certainly not a bad strategy, but for the cost... I dunno. If they're in range, that's (3.5*5)+((1/2)*10)=27.5 hits math-hammer average, so the swinginess of 1's/2's and 5's/6's could increase or decrease these numbers. 

 

With rapid-firing combi-bolters, it's ~26.7 hits every time. These are both without re-rolls.

 

Still, I did buy 5 terminator combi-flamer arms specifically to burninate fools. The Teleport > Warptime > flame 'n pepper > charge sounds way more fun than leaving the charge to chance.

[Galron]

My 30k legion ported over to 8th has 3 terminator squads 4 plasma/reaper, 5 melta, 4combibolter/reaper. typically I have a lord in termy armor to drop with whichever is the most important at the time. Plasma is nice, but the -4 and d6 wounds on melta is pretty nice as well and they don't need a babysitter. Bolter team isn't always used unlike the other two but it does well with its dakka when it is used.

[Are Verlo]

I say: buy a spartan. Fill her up with terninators. Drive up to their feeble lines, disembark and slaughter. Just as Horus intended ;-P

[ChazSexington]

I say: buy a spartan. Fill her up with terninators. Drive up to their feeble lines, disembark and slaughter. Just as Horus intended ;-P

 

I always thought a Spartan with 20 Khorne Berzerkers, an Exalted Champion, a Chaos Lord, and Khârn would be fun. KHORNE PARTY BUS! 

 

On a more serious note, how are Spartans in 8th? Do they survive T1? They're not exactly small and easy to hide. I know I'd take it out T1 with my three Predator Annihilators supported by Killshot and a Chaos Lord. 

 

Are - spilte jeg mot deg på NM i 2016 eller 2017?? 

Edited January 18, 2018 by ChazSexington

[Galron]

8 lascannon shots. I found myself rarely moving mine and sitting back and annihilating things. Also fairly hard to kill. Terminators do better deep striking than driving up field. Having to get out the next turn and then charging. I think they are better as shooty units.

[battle captain corpus]

Really, really, really not going to buy a Spartan ;)

But I do like the idea of having a Sorceror to bump them up a notch. I'm not massively worried about spending points (heck I'm taking Abaddon in 1000 points!) as I love anything in TDA anyway.

 

BCC

[Are Verlo]

 

 

I say: buy a spartan. Fill her up with terninators. Drive up to their feeble lines, disembark and slaughter. Just as Horus intended ;-P

I always thought a Spartan with 20 Khorne Berzerkers, an Exalted Champion, a Chaos Lord, and Khârn would be fun. KHORNE PARTY BUS!

 

On a more serious note, how are Spartans in 8th? Do they survive T1? They're not exactly small and easy to hide. I know I'd take it out T1 with my three Predator Annihilators supported by Killshot and a Chaos Lord.

 

Are - spilte jeg mot deg på NM i 2016 eller 2017??

3 laspredators with the support and stratagem you describe would probably kill it.

The spartan is though, but not that tough. On average the setup would inflict 23 wounds and the spartan has 20. Even if you roll low on the d6s for damage, should the spartan survive, it would be completely impotent due to battle damage.

On the other hand, if the spartan gets to fire first, it would destroy a predator with ease and stop the killshot.

 

All this is just as intended. The predators and the stratagem is as close we get to hardcounter of Titanic units and other LoWs.

 

Regarding NM, I was there in 2017. If I recall correctly my match-ups were necrons, ad mech, daemons, tau and then Eldar.

[ChazSexington]

 

 

I say: buy a spartan. Fill her up with terninators. Drive up to their feeble lines, disembark and slaughter. Just as Horus intended ;-P

I always thought a Spartan with 20 Khorne Berzerkers, an Exalted Champion, a Chaos Lord, and Khârn would be fun. KHORNE PARTY BUS!

 

On a more serious note, how are Spartans in 8th? Do they survive T1? They're not exactly small and easy to hide. I know I'd take it out T1 with my three Predator Annihilators supported by Killshot and a Chaos Lord.

 

Are - spilte jeg mot deg på NM i 2016 eller 2017??

3 laspredators with the support and stratagem you describe would probably kill it.

The spartan is though, but not that tough. On average the setup would inflict 23 wounds and the spartan has 20. Even if you roll low on the d6s for damage, should the spartan survive, it would be completely impotent due to battle damage.

On the other hand, if the spartan gets to fire first, it would destroy a predator with ease and stop the killshot.

 

All this is just as intended. The predators and the stratagem is as close we get to hardcounter of Titanic units and other LoWs.

 

Regarding NM, I was there in 2017. If I recall correctly my match-ups were necrons, ad mech, daemons, tau and then Eldar.

 

 

Aye, it depends on who goes first. I normally don't lose a Predator T1, but that's obviously what you'd have to do (which is why I'm considering 4 these days) - I have to move them though as they're hidden behind things, so I end up hitting on 4+, but then I cast Prescience on the one with Killshot. It'd be hitting on 3+ (re-rolling ones from the Chaos Lord), wounding on 2+, 6+ save, and D6+1 dmg, the others being 4+/3+/6+ save and D6 dmg. Using a re-roll damage is also going to help. Also, I generally also try to block my opponent with Infiltrating Cultists to prevent too much mobility on my opponent's side. Obviously all theory ;p

 

What did you bring? I brought Alpha Legion. I played two guys from Tromsø ;p

[Are Verlo]

I brought 3 storm ravens, 3 dreads (furioso, DC and liby), 15 scouts and 3 drop pods. Blood Angels, but I guess the dreads gave that away

[ChazSexington]

I brought 3 storm ravens, 3 dreads (furioso, DC and liby), 15 scouts and 3 drop pods. Blood Angels, but I guess the dreads gave that away

 

4 las-preds are s lot of points... 4 will ensure killshot when needed, but then those preds would not pull their weight vs a green tide.

 

I love tanks (served in the cavalry), 4 laspreds would be too much for my taste. I dont know your meta, if you often fight 2x primarchs or knight lists it rocks. My meta is ruled by hordes and light inf

Ah, didn't play you then. I played two guys from Tromsø - a guy with a mixed SM force and an Iron Hand Chapter Master on bike (Aka Smash :cuss er) and one who played Khorne Daemonkin.

 

I usually use the Predators to slaughter any transports, armour, and flyers, then objective grabbing. I would use them against elite armies as well, such as Terminator-heavy lists or Custodes. I am unsure whether 760 points in a 2k game is worth it, though.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Iron Father Ferrum
Don't dodge the swear filter

[intel31337]

If you want to spam flamers, I advocate for min squad bike w/ 2xflamer, champion w/ combi-flamer (just under 105 pts). Around the same points as flamer havocs, but on average will dish out more damage (thanks to being able to fire both flamer and combi-bolters), higher T, more wounds, and faster. Compared to terminators w/ combi-flamers, you can have 2 of those squads (more models) for less points, dish out more damage, and won't need transports to get across the field.

 

That said, the terminator's deepstrike ability should not be overlooked, and would out perform bikes in melee. Still, combi-plasmas/melta are better choices for the alpha-strike potential.

Edited January 19, 2018 by WarriorFish
Chat speak corrected