Is it all about the Poxwalkers?

[Wayniac]

I have been trying to not go the route of "more poxwalkers" because to me that's not at all what Death Guard is about.  However, it's an uphill battle because hordes are the current meta, and eventually the idea is you can just overwhelm the opponent with dice and they'll fail enough saves, which feels like absolutely terrible play to me.

 

I use two units of 19 (for ITC reasons) and then two squads of Plague Marines; one with 3 plasma and one with plasma on champ and 2 blight launchers, but I run them as 7s at the moment (debating dropping down to 5s) and 5 blightlord terminators frugally equipped (1 combi-plasma, 1 blight launcher, 1 flail, 3 axes and the champ with a sword) which are still already 250 points.  So far though I have had mixed success.  I'm just trying really really really hard to not go the old cultist + poxwalker route because I just hate that visually and from how it plays in the game.

[DuskRaider]

I don't necessarily believe fielding a Poxwalker centric army is against the fluff of the Legion at all. One could just as easily have their force be a renegade Death Guard Necromancer who's formed his own Cult (consisting mainly of mortals) and has been spreading the Plague of the Unbeliever (or the Walking Pox) on an Imperial Planet. Perfect for a Zombie Apocalypse theme and it even works when you throw in diseased living mortals worshipping their Lord (and subsequently joining his undead horde when they meet their fate).

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Its not beyond the realms of story telling, but the shear number of people who seem to vouch for poxwalkers hoards would make you think that they were all people persons when all the fluff ive ever read about them (in the heresy) suggests most death guard were distainful of how 'weak' regular mortals were ("what are you mortals complaining about? Its only a room full of sarin gas")

[DuskRaider]

Oh yeah, definitely. As I've pointed out, I have yet to see a single one of those chumps who purchased 200+ Poxwalkers post a painted army. Wonder why...

[Prot]

Have you guys read the Orath Plague series?

 

How about the recently released Crusade short story novel?

 

All of those stories have a strong theme of a planet turning against its people; inexplicable changes in human physiology followed by strong urges to grab a baseball bat, and start wandering aimlessly towards the local Imperium downtown shopping malls, looking for brains.

 

In each case by the time 90% of the local supermarket employee unions have jumped ship to the union of Nurgle, all the sudden the Death Guard appear. Not to say that the Death Guard are anti-Zombie Union, but they don't really have an affection for the poxwalkers beyond seeing them 1: as a tool of warfare. and 2: a way to share 'the gift'.

 

There's some great passages in Dark Imperium where local IG guys are in and out of hospitals, fighting disease. Eventually they start repeating numbers, and chants. They start leaving the hospitals, walking... seemingly aimlessly, but all towards a meeting place... you guessed it... Zombie union meeting in the middle of a rotten swamp.

 

Anyway in each case there is a very subtle, but strong change in the local population. And to me it is the precursor to doom for anyone that knows how DG work. :)

[bozo69pd]

Every chaos book I read mentions the countless menials that labor as primitive slaves in the bowels of their ships. Some of the books drive the excess mutants to battle as a first wave. Often times this is what the pox walkers are as they are not really considered true zombies like 6th Typhus option implied, but instead just horribly plagued mutants whether bred or converted.

 

This can be thematically thought of as a "Zombie apocalypse" style outbreak, or operation meatwall freshly loaded from Mortarions plague planet ready to deploy. Remember in the fluff as well Nurgle is constantly stealing random ships into the warp, infecting them, then ejecting these hapless diseased civilians back at imperial planets. Countless narrative options for fielding them.

 

Us DG players do not get the option to do orbital viral bombardments before a battle like DG usually do in the stories. Instead, fielding pox walkers is supposed to inspire that. Unfortunately, I usually feel that after saturating enough pox walkers I don't have much use for bringing plague marines. They are just too vulnerable to particular weapons.

[happyslugger]

Oh yeah, definitely. As I've pointed out, I have yet to see a single one of those chumps who purchased 200+ Poxwalkers post a painted army. Wonder why...

 

I have 40 painted, two different schemes so I can tell which squad is which.  I've got 12 unpainted (lost the will to live) and I use these as and when I have to add new models to the units during the games (if needed).

[Shockmaster]

I am still trying to build my lists without them as I am just not a huge fan of the Poxwalkers as I prefer Plaguebearers as my horde unit but it does feel like I am hamstringing myself by not using Poxwalkers more often. 

[CMDR_Welles]

I own 26, 20 from Dark Imperium, plus 6 Easy to Build. I'm trying to use as few duplicates in my army, so I've replaced 6 of the more similar models from Dark Imperium with the Easy to Build ones.

 

I'll field a single unit of 20. The extra 6 will only be used for when the unit grows beyond its starting number. I have no other desire to field more than this.

[Prot]

I am still trying to build my lists without them as I am just not a huge fan of the Poxwalkers as I prefer Plaguebearers as my horde unit but it does feel like I am hamstringing myself by not using Poxwalkers more often. 

 

Well if we're talking Poxwalkers as a choice compared to Plaguebearers... I feel like Poxwalkers are the Death Guard choice. That's why I prefer them, But the sheer effectiveness of them can't be ignored. ObSec guys that have Strategems built just for them... it's  hard to ignore what they bring to the table.

 

 

I own 26, 20 from Dark Imperium, plus 6 Easy to Build. I'm trying to use as few duplicates in my army, so I've replaced 6 of the more similar models from Dark Imperium with the Easy to Build ones.

 

I'll field a single unit of 20. The extra 6 will only be used for when the unit grows beyond its starting number. I have no other desire to field more than this.

 

I'm with you. After painting my first 20, I just haven't had the will to start the next 16 I have. I often only "field" 20, but I've had them turn into well over 40.

[Shockmaster]

 

I am still trying to build my lists without them as I am just not a huge fan of the Poxwalkers as I prefer Plaguebearers as my horde unit but it does feel like I am hamstringing myself by not using Poxwalkers more often. 

 

Well if we're talking Poxwalkers as a choice compared to Plaguebearers... I feel like Poxwalkers are the Death Guard choice. That's why I prefer them, But the sheer effectiveness of them can't be ignored. ObSec guys that have Strategems built just for them... it's  hard to ignore what they bring to the table.

 

 

I own 26, 20 from Dark Imperium, plus 6 Easy to Build. I'm trying to use as few duplicates in my army, so I've replaced 6 of the more similar models from Dark Imperium with the Easy to Build ones.

 

I'll field a single unit of 20. The extra 6 will only be used for when the unit grows beyond its starting number. I have no other desire to field more than this.

 

I'm with you. After painting my first 20, I just haven't had the will to start the next 16 I have. I often only "field" 20, but I've had them turn into well over 40.

 

 

Yes if you only want to use the Death Guard codex they are an even easier choice since they have no competition for that role other then Cultists, I just like the Daemons because I miss the days when Chaos was one faction, I have never been a fan of them deciding to make Chaos Daemons their own army as for me Chaos should still be one combined book, although I would split them by god once WE & EC have their own books.

[bozo69pd]

I am still trying to build my lists without them as I am just not a huge fan of the Poxwalkers as I prefer Plaguebearers as my horde unit but it does feel like I am hamstringing myself by not using Poxwalkers more often. 

Plaguebearers are waaaaay better than poxwalkers. I keep trying to figure out how to squeeze my favorite units from 4 detachments into 3 >.<

 

 

Also shockmaster I was annoyed that with 7th khorne units were the only chaos faction cool enough to have their very own monogod book with KDK. The entire time I was praying for Nurgle Daemonkin, but that is for AoS now with Maggotkin.

Edited January 27, 2018 by bozo69pd

[SkimaskMohawk]

They have completely different roles. And at grinding down opponents hordes and the potential to be a huge threat, it's poxwalkers and not plague bearers.

 

And as always, it's in conjunction with typhus. They should never be considered should him, and he's just too good in general.

[Prot]

The funny thing is when Typhys is involved then yes I agree the Poxwallkers are better.... empowered by the strength and toughness. But ironically Typhus himself falls more into support and I’ve had many games where he never swings. At that to the Blightbringer and were talking considerable points for an entry level unit. Edited January 28, 2018 by Prot

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's hard to calculate how many points force multipliers are worth. Typhus being a psycher with a lot of buff powers available also kind of adds to that. I think of it like this; hes a melee beatstick who's also a good caster and buffs fearless anti-horde hordes in the edition of hordes. Put him with the blob and it gets even scarier since now you have a guy capable of one shotting elite units with ease buried in there.

 

Blightbringer helps your entire army out unless you're doing a lot of fire support like laspreds, dakkabrutes or pbc. If there's drones, Blight marines and pox you've got a lot of units who'll always want to benefit from running. Again hard to value since its down to units affected, but I usually get 6-7 units in range, so that's about 7-8" extra a turn

[bozo69pd]

60 pox walkers + Typhus vs 60 plague bearers + Poxbringer + Scrivener (very close amount of points) the Daemons will win that battle hands down. Str 5 horde with poison reroll wounds 5++/5+++ (and can get a 4+ if they sit on a nurgle tree) that gives -1 to hit them in both shooting and cc. They can also take a banner that gives them a chance to return d6 slain units, an icon that gives +1 advance and charge rolls (which really helps them get the charge off in case they are deep striking in) and 6's deal 2 wounds instead of 1.

 

Hands down point for point with that set up the daemons are better. The difference to me is that first of course pox walkers are for DG detachment. Second, with immunity to moral a unit of pox walkers can operate and camp objectives without any babysitter while PB need a babysitter. If anything I think the cost of Typhus brings the walkers down because he seldom gets to swing. Pox Walkers do end up being slightly cheaper but much less killy in the end.

Edited January 27, 2018 by bozo69pd

[SkimaskMohawk]

Don't think anyone claimed that pox beat bearers in melee.

But there's definitely some oddness in what you're saying. The unit sizes; neither can get to 60 via points. That means you'd need multiple units of both (possibly not pox but that's a rather far stretch), diluting the use of the banner and other strats on either.

If we're doing 20+typhus vs 20+heralds, then after strats and psychic buffing with bearers going first, it results in 6 dead pox, but they kill 3.5 in return to bring it an even number. If pox go first they kill 4.7 and lose 4.3 in return. Either way the next turn is going to be way worse for the bearers since they fall under 20 and lose their debuff to hit, while the pox will always mitigate losses somewhat.  

Edited January 27, 2018 by SkimaskMohawk

[DuskRaider]

Post-Daemons codex, Plaguebearers are MUCH better at ripping and tearing. By a long shot. Mainly against multi-wound enemies and tanks... which seens weird typing, but it's true.

[Prot]

I'm just going to throw in the mix that comparing these guys 1 to 1 is probably not that fair.

 

The Poxwalkers + Strategems + Typhus are really very different than looking at them in a vacuum. I'm sure Plaguebearers get synergy from daemon stuff too. But the stuff I've 'absorbed' and turned into the Poxwalker union is pretty darn impressive sometimes.

[bozo69pd]

Don't think anyone claimed that pox beat bearers in melee.

 

 

My bad you are right I worded that poorly. I meant any scenario plaguebearers can kick more butt AND survive better than pox walker troops. However thanks for doing that math, because I was pondering how a toe to toe scenario would play out. Pox Walkers are still great! I am just saying that the new Daemon codex makes PB's overshadow them by quite a bit because of how much synergy is going on with daemons.

 

I am not sure how this will impact DG + Daemon lists yet but with LVO around the corner we shall see.

[Prot]

I actually put a Tallyman in all my Poxwalker armies now. It may sound silly but I loosely keep track of rerolls during a game and I really feel it works, especially as the Poxwalkers grow and can be quite spread out. Blades of Putrifaction on top of this and I’ve had some really respectable outcomes in situations where I’m pretty sure my opponent is thinking he’s got nothing to worry about. Taking on a massed Genestealer charge with a Broodlord is one of those times I can think of where I just ended up with a larger mass of Poxwalkers.

[Panzer]

So the 5th place on the LVO was a DG/Tzeentch Daemon list. Typhus, DP, Poxwalker and Cultists + Changeling and Horrors. I'm not sure how I feel about such a list. Not good at least. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's an itc tournament. All the lists are rather optimized and unfluffy. Even the pure eldar and ba lists have eyeroll elements and only have troops to generate CP

[Panzer]

It's an itc tournament. All the lists are rather optimized and unfluffy. Even the pure eldar and ba lists have eyeroll elements and only have troops to generate CP

Actually the pure BA list was very fluffy. ^^

[DuskRaider]

Tournament players don't give a damn about lore. I wouldn't use them as a basis of anything in this hobby other than what to avoid at your LGS.