Codexes: Imperial Propaganda? Black Library books: Truth?

[Moonreaper666]

In one novel it is stated that the Black Templars are around 1.5k marines

 

The author did say that was only for his story

 

 

What I can't forgive is that stupid book Valedor!

 

 

15k Eldar defenders for a major Craftworld!?

 

 

Clearly the author has gone bananas! Even after Kraken, Iyaden should have Millions of Aspect Warriors alone!

 

 

Did everyone forget about the Siege of Alaitoc!?!

[Lord_Caerolion]

Sadly, every author has a different idea of what "dying race" means when it comes to the Craftworlds. Some, like Phil Kelly/Jes Goodwin, have a realistic idea, but then you get the ones like Thorpe, who have the Craftworlds so underpopulated that it seems that one solid loss will wipe them out.

[chamberlainskeksil]

I actually really like events in the books being subject to interpretation, even when it's just narrated from an outside perspective.  I hope this is intentional and keeps happening going forward.  I especially liked how the new 1KSons codex says Magnus was cut off by the Emperor before he could get his warning through.  It would be great if every publication going forward just has something tossed in that directly contradicts something else.

 

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, the Emperor did cut Magnus off before he could really deliver the message. He banished him before he did even more damage to the Webway Gate.

[Machine God]

Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer 'Nuff said 

[Moonreaper666]

Sadly, every author has a different idea of what "dying race" means when it comes to the Craftworlds. Some, like Phil Kelly/Jes Goodwin, have a realistic idea, but then you get the ones like Thorpe, who have the Craftworlds so underpopulated that it seems that one solid loss will wipe them out.

How many Aspect Warriors, Wraiths and Guardians should each of the Five major Craftworlds have? A minor craftworld?

 

 

Didn't Millions of Guardsmen invade Alaitoc?

 

 

No way 15k defenders could take on that many, plus the Sons of Orar!

[Gentlemanloser]

1 Solid Snake, er Iron Snake, killed hundreds if not thousands, of dark eldar.

 

All by himself.

[Calyptra]

1 Solid Snake, er Iron Snake, killed hundreds if not thousands, of dark eldar.

All by himself.

Well, that reaffirms my opinion that Black Library novels are nonsensical drivel that I should continue to ignore.

[Moonreaper666]

1 Solid Snake, er Iron Snake, killed hundreds if not thousands, of dark eldar.

 

All by himself.

Composition and Equipment of the Dark Eldar Force?

 

Were they distracted and separated?

[Gentlemanloser]

Splattered by bolter fire

 

Seperated by bolter fire.

 

Iirc 2 deldar were actually killed by someone other than the Iron Snake.

[Gree]

Sadly, every author has a different idea of what "dying race" means when it comes to the Craftworlds. Some, like Phil Kelly/Jes Goodwin, have a realistic idea, but then you get the ones like Thorpe, who have the Craftworlds so underpopulated that it seems that one solid loss will wipe them out.

 

I always thought the whole ''dying race'' thing was pretty silly. If you've been a dying race for ten milennia, then you aren't dying race. Diminished maybe. The Dark Eldar seem to ignore that whole aspect completely.

 

It was obviously a theme lifted from Tolkien's Elves. (Along with many other things from LOTR) But the decline of Tolkien's elves happens in a different context and timescale, so it makes sense there.

 

 

1 Solid Snake, er Iron Snake, killed hundreds if not thousands, of dark eldar.

 

All by himself.

 

A single squad of Iron Snakes and a Librarian killed two thousand Dark Eldar who were fleeing a bomb in an enclosed area,

 

Now, Priad earlier in the book has a pretty considerable kill count even by himself, but even he doesn't kill thousands by himself.

 

I think it was pretty stupid writing, especially from Abnett, but do get the context right.

[Gentlemanloser]

Ah was it a squad? Thigh it was Priad by himself.

 

It's been awhile since i read it.

 

Still, squad versus 2k deldar. I remember the slaughter being so laughably over the top.

[Gree]

Ah was it a squad? Thigh it was Priad by himself.

 

It's been awhile since i read it.

 

Still, squad versus 2k deldar. I remember the slaughter being so laughably over the top.

 

Priad takes out an entire landing party in the first story and a large ambush later. Dark Eldar are supposed to be the main enemy of the Iron Snakes or something.

 

It's over the top, but Abnett seemed to be deliberately writing them in an overwrought heroic style, similar to how 300 depicted the Spartans slaughtering hordes of Persian mooks. The Iron Snakes are supposed to draw heavy inspiration from Ancient Greece. (They literally line up in a phalanx with spears to fight orks later in the novel)

 

I think it's stupid, but I can understand his intent.

[Calyptra]

His intent is bad and he should feel bad.

 

If Black Library authors don't adhere to what the codices say 40K's races and factions are and what they're capable of, then it's not canon and I don't have to care about Black Library's crappy novels.

[Gentlemanloser]

And let's not forget C.S. Goto.

 

With his I'm not mephiston honest. But I'm the only librarian to overcome the black rage and I'm super powerful.

[DogWelder]

I'd cut Abnett some slack since this was one of his very early novels.

 

The later ones have a much better balance between the protagonists and antagonists. Know No Fear had the Word Bearers demolish the Ultramarines for the first half of the book until the tide turned in the second half but only just barely.

[Gree]

His intent is bad and he should feel bad.

 

If Black Library authors don't adhere to what the codices say 40K's races and factions are and what they're capable of, then it's not canon and I don't have to care about Black Library's crappy novels.

 

I guess your entitled to your opinion. I don't quite agree with you on Black Library. Some of my best inspiration as a hobbyist has come from reading Black Library novels and adding a new unit to my forces, or putting an interesting quirk on my homebrew forces.

 

 

I'd cut Abnett some slack since this was one of his very early novels.

 

The later ones have a much better balance between the protagonists and antagonists. Know No Fear had the Word Bearers demolish the Ultramarines for the first half of the book until the tide turned in the second half but only just barely.

 

Conversely, he has a single squad of Guardsmen take out five Chaos Marines without any losses, so he's perfectly capable of writing the other way. Abnett seems to be more comfortable writing for Guardsmen.

 

Nowadays I take more umbrage with Unremembered Empire and Legion than Brothers of the Snake.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Gree

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

1 Solid Snake, er Iron Snake, killed hundreds if not thousands, of dark eldar.

All by himself.

Well, that reaffirms my opinion that Black Library novels are nonsensical drivel that I should continue to ignore.

 

 

And Human Centipede proved to me that all movies are worthless... wait, no, no it didn't.

 

There are a bunch of shoddy Black Library novels, but there are still some really good ones. Just make sure to stick way clear of C.S. Goto!

[Sheesh Mode]

 

Gehenna Campaign:

 

Codex: Blood Angels (5th or 6th ed) - Blood Angels and Necrons fight over Gehenna until Tyranids show up.  They then team up against the Tyranids and, in a display of nobility, legendary Lord Commander Dante let the Necrons retreat, finding it distasteful to attack someone who allied with them.

 

Book: Crusade + Other Stories (8th ed era novel) - The Necrons manipulated the Blood Angels from the start.  Even their battle over Gehenna was some ploy to deliberately use Blood Angels to lure Tyranids there (as Necrons have no biomass for them to consume).  It's a "just as planned" moment.  By the time the Blood Angels realised what had happened, the Necrons were already long gone i.e. it wasn't an act of nobility on Dante's part.  The narrator of the story, a Blood Angel Sergeant, literally goes up to Dante and says, "I will have the official records amended" so that it did not look like his Lord Commander had slipped up.  To that writer's credit, he didn't have Dante happily agree to it; instead, the Lord Commander was already thinking about other priorities and didn't care what the official record showed.

 

(Btw, for those interested in reading that collection, that wasn't even the biggest surprise in the story.)

I have not read that book, but now will. Thanks. 

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

Damocles Crusade:

 

Codex version: The Tau were pushed to the brink by the overwhelming Imperial counterattack and would have lost if not for the Tyranid invasion which caused the Crusade to be called off.

 

Book version: The Tau actually had much larger forces inbound to the planet that would have crushed the Imperial force under the weight of numbers. However, an ex-Rogue Trader fed them false information about the Imperial forces being much larger than they actually were which caused them to delay their counterattack. Ultimately she was responsible for the truce by negotiating a settlement between the Ethereal Caste and the Crusade leadership. (The reason she did this was that she wanted to profit from the trade with the Tau in the aftermath of the Crusade).

 

The Ultramarines 8th company under Cato Sicarius and Jorus Numitor also attacked the Tau headquarters on the planet but were ultimately defeated by Farsight who used an EMP pulse to render their power armor useless and surrounded them with Kroot mercenaries. After Farsight threatened to kill their apothecaries and destroy their gene-seed, the Ultramarines quickly agreed to the truce as well.

 

 

Note: The exception to this is, of course, the Tau codicies which do admittedly favor their faction (understandably).

If I remember Correctly, GW's official stance is that "Everything is Canon, but not Everything is True".

 

And as for the aftermath of the Domacles Gulf Crusade, in Crisis of Faith, Farsight states that the tau defenses were nearly wiped out and even with the backup that was late to support them wouldn't have been enough to save them. Even when talking to the Ethereal Council he says that the Tau weren't ready to deal with the Imperium, and they still send him back out with a half-arsed 'war fleet'. Farsight specifically states that the propaganda from the water caste paints it as a valiant defense and rebuke of the Imperium but the people of the planet know the truth and ignore the water caste. If it wasn't for the Tyranids the Tau would have been pushed back further (but not much further because of the casualties inflicted upon the Imperium).

[Ishagu]

Abnett has some great books but there are massive inconsistencies in them. There are multiple stories in which Las Guns are one shot killing Chaos Marines for example.

 

Unremembered Empire is another book full of weird power issues that really springs to mind.

[MrDarth151]

Abnett has some great books but there are massive inconsistencies in them. There are multiple stories in which Las Guns are one shot killing Chaos Marines for example.

 

Unremembered Empire is another book full of weird power issues that really springs to mind.

 

This stems from the editorial department of Black Library being too lenient.

 

Differences in power between individuals, books being inconsistent with one another, characterisation being different between novels, those are all common problems.

 

It's not like it's limited to Abnett either. Capabilities of the Astartes are vastly different between authors. Hell, authors themselves are not consistent. Abnett's Marines gain substantial amount of power when they are protagonists or protagonists aligned, and lose it when they are antagonists. First Heretic has Argel Tal blocking point blank bolter shots with his sword, and Sar Fareth being killed by a wooden spear, something that is literally impossible unless the two are orders of magnitude apart in terms of physical ability, which makes no sense for genetically enhanced warriors. Dunn had Catachans shank Plague Marines with knives, and I've lost count how many times I've seen Astartes bleed out, even though they have specific organ that's meant to prevent exactly that.

 

Inconsistencies are common in BL books. I feel that singling Abnett out is somewhat unfair.

[Ishagu]

It's because some of his books are so popular. Unremembered Empire is a big source of grief, and his popular Gaunt's Ghost novels are also full of inconsistencies.

[DogWelder]

It's because some of his books are so popular. Unremembered Empire is a big source of grief, and his popular Gaunt's Ghost novels are also full of inconsistencies.

 

What were the inconsistencies in UE? The only thing I remember being mildly controversial was Kurze taking on Guilliman and the LIon and managing to escape.

 

Which is not too bad. I mean Guilliman took on Lorgar and Angron and managed to escape in the end.

[Robbienw]

Guilliman being almost killed by 10 alpha legionaries was a bit much.  He wasn't armed or armoured, but still a bit of a stretch.