Unit of the Week: Baal Predator

[Lord_Caerolion]

Yep, as NTaW says, it's 3). It specifically states not to roll a dice, but instead to add 6" to the movement. If you didn't Advance after using the Stratagem, there's no reason to have a dice to roll.

[Aothaine]

I am a huge fan of Flamers. When you can drop two heavy flamers and a inferno cannon on a predator chassis it is amazing. I am running these bad boys with the list below. Or plan to very very soon.

 

Spearhead Detatchment

 

HQ - Cpt Smashypants

HQ - Flybrarian

 

HS - Dev Sqaud (Heavy Flamerx4) in Razorback with Twin Heavy Flamers

HS - Dev Sqaud (Heavy Flamerx4) in Razorback with Twin Heavy Flamers

HS - Dev Sqaud (Heavy Flamerx4) in Razorback with Twin Heavy Flamers

HS - Baal Pred (Inferno Cannon and Heavy Flamer x2)

HS - Baal Pred (Inferno Cannon and Heavy Flamer x2)

HS - Baal Pred (Inferno Cannon and Heavy Flamer x2)

 

This is the core of my force that I am building around right now. Loads of firey fun! 

 

Flamers auto hit. Sure they are short range but man they are brutal in that range, and ignore a lot of what is making armies powerful in this edition so far -to hit.

[Diagramdude]

I really want to know how that flamer list performs!

[Crimson Ghost IX]

It's a shame, but it is my opinion Baal Predators suck for the points cost.

Look at Dark Reapers then at the cost of your Pred for instance...

 

GW really dropped the ball on the Baal Predator for the Blood Angels.

I want it to be good, but it is not. At all.

 

Also the players just decided the predator PREDATOR killshot debate opposite of studio intent in my opinion...

They went out of their way to put the PREDATOR keyword on the datacard then just flubbed the strategy font.

 

Whatever the case I see no reason to use one outside of story driven games with that cost and "ruling".

 

I have regular autocannon turrets and ran mine as regular preds when inclined to run Preds.

Omitting sponsons and rolling with just autokannnons x4 is decent for Killshot strat list building in my opinion.

Especially when using those sponson savings towards vidicators/razorbacks... but that is getting off topic here.

[Aothaine]

I really want to know how that flamer list performs!

 

Still working on getting everything together. I'll have a batrep for the list once I get it up and running. I might proxy it and run it a few times as well.

[Pendent]

It's a shame, but it is my opinion Baal Predators suck for the points cost.

Look at Dark Reapers then at the cost of your Pred for instance...

 

GW really dropped the ball on the Baal Predator for the Blood Angels.

I want it to be good, but it is not. At all.

 

Also the players just decided the predator PREDATOR killshot debate opposite of studio intent in my opinion...

They went out of their way to put the PREDATOR keyword on the datacard then just flubbed the strategy font.

 

Whatever the case I see no reason to use one outside of story driven games with that cost and "ruling".

 

I have regular autocannon turrets and ran mine as regular preds when inclined to run Preds.

Omitting sponsons and rolling with just autokannnons x4 is decent for Killshot strat list building in my opinion.

Especially when using those sponson savings towards vidicators/razorbacks... but that is getting off topic here.

 

It really isn't fair to compare a solidly mid-tier unit in our codex to the single strongest option is one of the strongest codices. A unit so strong that it basically breaks the game in competitive play as we just saw at LVO.

 

As I said earlier in the thread it makes more sense to compare it to something like a Stormtalon in our own codex or a Leman Russ Punisher for the Guard. When looked at with those eyes the Baal Predator is a solid, if not flashy, performer that can fit comfortably into a lot of lists for managing hordes. It's also worth pointing out the assault cannons and heavy bolters are some of the best options for dealing with the new Custodes codex, given that they'll be wounding most models in that book on 3's and 4's and don't have wasted "overkill" AP to cause the 4++ to kick in.

 

The killshot debate is a really clear-cut deal per the main rulebook. Keywords are in all caps and the word Predator in the strategem is not in caps, ergo Baal Predators don't get access. GW has already issued an FAQ for us so I would expect if it was some big mistake on their part it would have been fixed.

 

 

[Crimson Ghost IX]

 

It's a shame, but it is my opinion Baal Predators suck for the points cost.

Look at Dark Reapers then at the cost of your Pred for instance...

 

GW really dropped the ball on the Baal Predator for the Blood Angels.

I want it to be good, but it is not. At all.

 

Also the players just decided the predator PREDATOR killshot debate opposite of studio intent in my opinion...

They went out of their way to put the PREDATOR keyword on the datacard then just flubbed the strategy font.

 

Whatever the case I see no reason to use one outside of story driven games with that cost and "ruling".

 

I have regular autocannon turrets and ran mine as regular preds when inclined to run Preds.

Omitting sponsons and rolling with just autokannnons x4 is decent for Killshot strat list building in my opinion.

Especially when using those sponson savings towards vidicators/razorbacks... but that is getting off topic here.

 

It really isn't fair to compare a solidly mid-tier unit in our codex to the single strongest option is one of the strongest codices. A unit so strong that it basically breaks the game in competitive play as we just saw at LVO.

 

As I said earlier in the thread it makes more sense to compare it to something like a Stormtalon in our own codex or a Leman Russ Punisher for the Guard. When looked at with those eyes the Baal Predator is a solid, if not flashy, performer that can fit comfortably into a lot of lists for managing hordes. It's also worth pointing out the assault cannons and heavy bolters are some of the best options for dealing with the new Custodes codex, given that they'll be wounding most models in that book on 3's and 4's and don't have wasted "overkill" AP to cause the 4++ to kick in.

 

The killshot debate is a really clear-cut deal per the main rulebook. Keywords are in all caps and the word Predator in the strategem is not in caps, ergo Baal Predators don't get access. GW has already issued an FAQ for us so I would expect if it was some big mistake on their part it would have been fixed.

 

 

 

 

You are correct that is not fair.

The Eldar were nerfed from crazy bat:cuss broken to only mostly broken so yeah that is a bit harsh of me.

 

Let us compare it to other units not as good for sure. =)

I feel a regular predator is better.

 

I agree the rules as written are clear for killshot. I can only hope GW gets around to a proper FAQ at some point.

I feel it is one more nail in the coffin when considering whether the Baal Predator sucks or not tho in the current codex.

[Brother Crimson]

I am a huge fan of Flamers. When you can drop two heavy flamers and a inferno cannon on a predator chassis it is amazing. I am running these bad boys with the list below. Or plan to very very soon.

 

Spearhead Detatchment

 

HQ - Cpt Smashypants

HQ - Flybrarian

 

HS - Dev Sqaud (Heavy Flamerx4) in Razorback with Twin Heavy Flamers

HS - Dev Sqaud (Heavy Flamerx4) in Razorback with Twin Heavy Flamers

HS - Dev Sqaud (Heavy Flamerx4) in Razorback with Twin Heavy Flamers

HS - Baal Pred (Inferno Cannon and Heavy Flamer x2)

HS - Baal Pred (Inferno Cannon and Heavy Flamer x2)

HS - Baal Pred (Inferno Cannon and Heavy Flamer x2)

 

This is the core of my force that I am building around right now. Loads of firey fun! 

 

Flamers auto hit. Sure they are short range but man they are brutal in that range, and ignore a lot of what is making armies powerful in this edition so far -to hit.

No place for lieutenants ? 

[Aothaine]

 

No place for lieutenants ? 

 

 

 

I was just spit balling the list. Add lieutenants to it would be a good idea actually. Also an ancient with the 5++ banner if I can squeeze it in. 

Now that the codex is out I'll rebuild the list and post it up sometime this weekend. Something I have to keep in mind though is that I don't want to dump too many points into characters. Already have smashypants and a flybrarian. 

[Crimson Ghost IX]

2 Foot LT(s) and Company Ancient don't slaughter the bank with just power sword and buff up those Razorsquads. =)

Support wise it is how I ran my mech Sternguards anyhow before switching things around.

 

Character hammer is the new way of things again so... Build what works *nod.

 

Baal Preds with Inferno Cannon certainly win in the FUN dept still !!

Burn them with FIAR Aothaine. =)

 

There is something to be said for autohit as well I suppose.

Will change my opinion from suck to almost good for the Inferno turret version of the Baal Pred though I maintain GW could have easily made the unit good and didn't.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Crimson Ghost IX

[dread05]

Sorry for necroing this, I was just thinking to get another Baal predator, and I wanted to ask this. How weird is it to kit it with an assault cannon and 2 heavy flamers?

[Arkaniss]

I've not done it but I can't say it's that odd in 8th - automatic hits are really nice on a mobile gun platform. The Assault Cannons can cope with a -1 to hit due to their rate of fire so in theory it should be a decent load out. The usual caveats of personal meta and so on apply! ;)

[dread05]

Basically the same loadout as a land raider redeemer. Thats where I got the idea.

[robofish7591]

Personally, I would either go all flamers or all dakka.  The assault cannons and heavy bolters want to stay at range and shoot, while the flamers want to get up close.  But that is just my personal preference, rule of cool is the most important one to follow

[Ming]

I use a Baal Pred in every BA list.  The dakka kind.  That said, they are overpriced for what they do.  If you were going to take two Baal Preds you could take 3 TLASSCAN razorbacks instead (approximately).  I always use the TLASSCAN version with HB sponsons.  

 

I still argue on the ability of Baal predators to use the Killshot Stratagem or not.  They are a predator.  Just because they have the noun Baal in front of the word predator changes little.  I'm hoping that the Chapter Approved book of 2019 has changes for us if not a FAQ to make it sooner.   Predator Annihilator anyone? Special Forgeworld Predators? What about the other stratagems that link Whirlwinds to Landspeeders? We can only be generic? No variant names apply? Dishwasher vs Bottlewasher? 

 

In this age of Knights and big giant greater demons and beasties, we need more dakka!

[Lord_Caerolion]

Because GW have changed how that sort of terminology works. If they want a particular ability or item to work on a variety of units, they use a Keyword. It's the whole reason they were introduced, to cut down on these sort of "is a Daemon Prince a daemon" arguments. I'd love for them to FAQ it otherwise, but until that point, a Baal Predator is not a Predator but is a PREDATOR. GW rules writing at its finest.

[Spagunk]

We pay enough for Baal preds that we should be able to get a killshot strat or something similar for non vehicle targets. Edited July 6, 2018 by Spagunk

[tychobi]

Sad to say but ball preds of all stripes are severely overpriced. Take for funsies only.

[Panzer]

Yeah we know that. These threads aren't about whether you should take them. They're about how you should use them if you take them. ;)

[Silverson]

I took two and a laspred in my game on Sunday, I started playing three units of sanguinary guard (2x 4man units and one 7 man unit) and use the Baal predators to clear trash/screen and the sanguinary guard to kill the big nasties. I run Dante (another big points sink) who buffs my shooting unit(s) turn one and joins the close combat units when needed. I found it worked well but if your min maxing there will be better ways of doing it.

 

 

I find in beer and pretzel games they do the job of clearing screens reasonably well, maybe not as efficiently as death company or inceptors tho.

[Ming]

My standard list at the moment has a mix of predators - 1 Baal with AssCann and HB Sponsons, 1 Pred with TLLC and LasCan Sponsons, and 1 Pred with PredAC and LasCan Sponsons.  They each are great to use.  Certainly Baals should have just been faster or have had a rule where they move w/o shooting penalty like they were originally designed to do.  

 

If you are going heavy on mech, I'd certainly try to get a mechanic in the list to put "wounds" back on them each turn...

 

If anything, the preds tactically work great in a Baal paired with a regular pred.  One kills the transport, the other kills the survivors.  Alternatively if you put a Thunderfire in the list, it pins in place the survivors...

 

I'm kinda thinking that the Predator Autocannon variant is more useful in my Meta than the all-lascannon variant, because it puts out more dakka downrange. 

 

One thing I need to weigh out better is hich would be better - predators or the new Primaris dreadnoughts, points vs damage vs toughness and wounds...That might guide my next buy!

[Thalidar]

With chapter approved 2019, has the Baal Predator become more usable or is it still better to run razorbacks?

 

Edit: just found the updated topic answering my question.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Thalidar