Really need help trying to pick a chapter

[Chaplain Adonael]

Brothers,

 

I have picked up all the codices for space marines, I have a ton of marines that I have collected over the years. I keep going back and forth between Raptors , (because I love the chapter tactic and Ilias and the strategum.) and the Dark Angels. Any help would be greatly appreciated. And I would appreciate any help with builds.

 

Thanks guys

[W.A.Rorie]

Raptors- cause you can do different camo schemes, 

[Race Bannon]

Welcome to the Ravenspire!  Have a look around.  Whatever you choose, enjoy the army and have fun building and playing with it :tu:

 

I don't know Dark Angels, but I know Raptors.  Their combat doctrine may be appealing because they are pragmatic when dealing with the situation and adapt established norms toward victory.

 

This translates on the gaming board into extreme flexibility - nothing is taboo to use and all of it is worthy, depending on your opponent (tournaments notwithstanding).  This mean, in my mind, there are no "builds" because the Raptors are not a one-size-fits-all army.  In other words, the army you play with is exactly what you want it to be.

 

"But Race, can't that be said with any army?"  Answer: sure, from a certain point of view.  If you want to use an army with special toys and exotic rules, then go forth and conquer.  Yet, if you want true freedom, then a Codex army is for you.

 

"But Race, if that's true, then why not just play Ultramarines?"  Answer: because Ultramarines do not, and will never, use Raptor green :wub:  I fact, the Raptors are known to break with Codex tradition and use camouflage (as mentioned by war009 above).  Now this leads to greater hobby flexibility :)

 

Having said that, unless I'm terrible at keeping up with the game, Strike from the Shadows is a great rule for the Raven Guard.  Chapter Approved recently declared that successor Chapters cannot use parent Chapter rules - to which I say, bump that trash!  Have a chat with your local group to cut you some slack in this regard for the sake of fun.  Tournaments are another matter though so prepare your soul to deal with that issue.

 

Back to builds, there are plenty Plenty PLENTY of posts in this forum with excellent ideas for what to do with the Raptors.  I strongly recommend some research here because it's not just the list, but the discussion about the list where you will get insight into how it works and the thoughts of the builder.  ^_^

[Schlitzaf]

Bannon? Where? Only thing limited/cannot be used by successors are Chapter Relics, UU (unless your BA/DA/SW), and Chapter Warlord Traits. And bar IF/Ultra the generic Traits (Angel/Sword/Resolve/etc) are mostly better anyways. Relics are big loss I will admit.

[Race Bannon]

See?  It seems I suck after all ^_^

 

Thank you for adding the clarification.

[Schlitzaf]

Honestly at times I wish my Chapter didn’t have a WT, sense it means BT Named Warlords must take them and....well ours beside trolling is mediocre

[MajorNese]

As far as the decision goes, in my opinion it boils down to army theme and tactics.

 

Army theme of the Raptors is rather straight-forward, but flexible: They are modern military unit. Anything looking tacticool, geared up and realistic is free to use. The latter is really rare in 40k, considering the self-proclaimed "greatest tacticians ever" run at the enemy painted in bright-blue and gold, plastered in waxed inspirational sticky notes. In praxis, this means there are lots of conversions featuring improved, improvised or looted weaponry, additional pouches and such. Some bitz with Raptors logo you can get off Custodes (converting guardian spears to special bolters is rather straight-forward), you could even take the fancy new jetbikes to convert to Primaris jetbikes, they already have a Raptors logo on them.

 

Dark Angels are one of the less pragmatic themes, which some love, some don't. The whole knightly theme offers possibilites too, including a lot of official bitz to make them look different to regular marines. Not my cup of tea, I never had a thing for that. With so much official support and an own codex, a lot of players choose them, so they're most certainly not the most unique army you could show up with.

 

As for the gameplay, DA offer fixed Wings to base your army on. You can find a lot on those online and offline, but flexibility beyond that is rather average. Raptors have 3 advantages in that regard:

1. They have Strike from the Shadows. Meaning you can include let's say Agressors or Hellblasters without needing a Repulsor to get them where they need to be. One tank is an easy target and wasted points, so you got to take more anyway. With SftS, you can make more units viable without paying the Transport Tax. Bonus: SftS happens after seizing the initiative, therefore enable counter-deployment. Also, SftS units can set up no-deepstrike-zones right before turn 1.

2. They have -1 to hit. Reducing the incoming fire means that some units, like tacticals in cover, become extremely resilient. Again, it enables more units to work where other chapters would struggle.

3. They have Issodon. Primaris might be the go-to choice for many right now, but with Issodon, you can deep strike 3 non-primaris infantry. Suddenly sternguard and grav devastators become strong choices, instead of being stuck between all chairs. Again, more viable options to choose from.

 

All in all, an army with so many options, you won't run into the narrow build problem any time soon. Had that with AdMech, discontinued that army for now.

 

As for builds:

My current army list includes scoutbikers + biker captain (fast, hard to hit, devastating up close), SftSing assault hellblasters (in range turn 1), deep striking inceptors and Issodon with grav devs and sternguard (appear where needed, reroll a lot, deal lots of damage). Not a single vehicle or "officially tough" unit in there, but surprisingly effective by taking out key targets via mobility and being hard to kill afterwards.

Edited January 23, 2018 by MajorNese

[Chaplain Adonael]

Thank you brothers. I was thinking of mech infantry kind of list. I have a ton of vehicles and infantry so why not do both. I know the -1 does not apply to vehicles but the boxes will protect my units until they get on objective. Or should I go all footslog and use SfTS and isadon?

[Race Bannon]

Raptors can do Mech Infantry :tu:  You don't have to use Issodon ^_^

[W.A.Rorie]

Currently I have no plans to use my Issoden only cause my force is either Primaris or all scouts. It’s a personal preference...

[Chaplain Adonael]

Are Reivers good with Raptors? I have 2 10 man squads. One with carbines and one with blades.

[MajorNese]

They have deep strike with grav shutes, complementing other units with SftS. In cover and with -1, reivers are very hard to kill, but I found their output rather mediocre.

[N1SB]

I was just browsing threads and you guys actually convinced me to make a small Raptors recon or search & destroy team.

[W.A.Rorie]

I was just browsing threads and you guys actually convinced me to make a small Raptors recon or search & destroy team.

 

 

Welcome to the Ravenspire 

[Biscuittzz]

I was just browsing threads and you guys actually convinced me to make a small Raptors recon or search & destroy team.

 

And if thou gaze long into the Ravenspire, the Ravenspire will also gaze into thee. 

[duz_]

Well and there's the obvious question of are you a loyalists or a traitor?

 

/taps bolt pistol

[SyNidus]

One thing i've found about the raven guard forums that i've rarely found elsewhere - There are a lot more tactics discussions in here compared to elsewhere. Just a browse of of our first 2 pages will reveal discussions regarding the best loadouts and applications of various units, including funky ideas.

A close second to us in this are the Ultramarines forums.

That being said, why do you keep going back and forth between raptors and dark angels? You've mentioned what you like about the Raptors, but what about the Dark Angels?

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

The problem with Dark Angels is that they are filthy heretic traitors.  So go with Raptors.  Or be a hipster and use Whitescars... just because.

[ONDIG]

Exorcists for full tactical flexibility .plus they have 2 scout companies! Or do like I do and simply play Men in black.I have a small Templar army,A larger scout /Assault heavy Raven guard army and a few squads of Deathwatch sprinkled in to taste.Since all 3 factions are similarly painted I have no problems sneaking a needed body in from one of the other Armies.

You could paint your Raptors camo so it matches Your D.Angels or vice versa.This would allow you the sneak fancy robe wearing Plasma bearing Bad Asses in amongst your Raptors or use your Raptors to swell the ranks of the D.Angels. Honestly I can't advise you which chapter is better it all comes down to personal taste and unless it comes down to economy or storage issues I say why choose?But like I mentioned above I would try to model for effect .example I assembled a Sweet Tactical/ Sternguard unit but intentionally left off chapter insignia .So now they can serve as Tactical /Sternguard for RG or Fodder for the Crusader.sorry kinda blathering but I hope it helps.

[Boudan]

You'll be the only one at your hobby shop with a Raptors force (probably?)  Every newbie to the hobby starts with Dark Angels.

[Firenze]

I will be biased and say Raptors. And you definitely can do a mechanised infantry raptors force, its actually how I play mine. Combined arms and flexibility is the Raptor way!

[TiguriusX]

Be a loyalist and choose raptor

 

Seriously though they have nice fluff and great rules. If space wolves didn't exist i would choose raptor

Edited February 2, 2018 by TiguriusX

[Claws and Effect]

Given your profile pic, I'd say you've chosen already.