Crazy Pod Strat

[Charlo]

Taken from a BA discord group (that I think a couple of you are member's of...)

If you're interested in using a pod, try this: 

• Mephiston
• Corbulo
• Company Ancient
• Company Vets.

When they drop, Mephiston is out front, asking to be targeted. When he gets targeted, he has his 2+ save, followed by a 5+ lord of death, followed by a 5+ from the standard of sacrifice on the ancient, followed by a 2+ bodyguard roll from the vets, followed by another 5+ roll from the standard. Each time a vet dies, they get to shoot or fight again on a 4+ from the ancient banner, and then Corbulo resurrects them to continue the cycle.

 

Honestly, this is bat   crazy if it works?!?

Edited January 23, 2018 by Charlo

[Kallas]

Add a Librarian for Shield of Sanguinius too, just in case people drop Meltas on him

[NTaW]

Strat...agem? Strat....ocaster?....oh! Strategy! I get it now.

 

This is susceptible to multi-damage weapons and people ignoring Mephiston and shooting the Vets, but if you keep it secret enough from your opponents you may pull it off once or twice.

 

Would love to see this used instead of thought about, I habitually use Vets+Mephiston in a Pod but the extra points spent really don't seem worth it when the Banner of Sacrifice could be protecting another aspect of my army (often Sanguinary Guard).

[Xenith]

Until one multi wound weapon shoots meph and rolls high.

 

D6 wounds on Meph becomes D6 mortal wounds on the unit of company vets and can wipe them in a turn. Yes you get the 5+++, but it's still fragile. 

 

I'd go with 3 units of 2 vets to minimise losses to mortal wounds in this manner. 

 

I also think a cataphractii captain with death visions + black rage/whatever gets him the 5+++ save would be better due to the 3+++. Meph wont last long up front vs lascannons.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Xenith

[Charlo]

Until one multi wound weapon shoots meph and rolls high.

 

D6 wounds on Meph becomes D6 mortal wounds on the unit of company vets and can wipe them in a turn. Yes you get the 5+++, but it's still fragile. 

 

I'd go with 3 units of 2 vets to minimise losses to mortal wounds in this manner. 

 

I also think a cataphractii captain with death visions + black rage/whatever gets him the 5+++ save would be better due to the 3+++. Meph wont last long up front vs lascannons.

 

Oh totally, the captain is much better in terms of a tank for sure.

[Kallas]

Until one multi wound weapon shoots meph and rolls high.

 

D6 wounds on Meph becomes D6 mortal wounds on the unit of company vets and can wipe them in a turn. Yes you get the 5+++, but it's still fragile. 

 

I'd go with 3 units of 2 vets to minimise losses to mortal wounds in this manner. 

 

I also think a cataphractii captain with death visions + black rage/whatever gets him the 5+++ save would be better due to the 3+++. Meph wont last long up front vs lascannons.

 

Well, let's assume that a Meltagun does hit Mephy and deals 6 damage after a failed save. Statistically, he takes only 4 damage after Lord of Death; then he'll only lose 3.33 after the Standard of Sacrifice. 2.77 wounds can be intercepted by the Company Vets (2+ to do so! It sometimes fails!), but let's assume 3 can be - that then only becomes 2.

 

So each (max damage) d6D weapon kills two Company Veterans, assuming that you don't keep any on Mephiston (presumably because there are other shots incoming). If the CV are kept cheap (Storm Bolters and Chainswords, for example) then that's pretty good!

[Xenith]

 

Until one multi wound weapon shoots meph and rolls high.

 

D6 wounds on Meph becomes D6 mortal wounds on the unit of company vets and can wipe them in a turn. Yes you get the 5+++, but it's still fragile. 

 

I'd go with 3 units of 2 vets to minimise losses to mortal wounds in this manner. 

 

I also think a cataphractii captain with death visions + black rage/whatever gets him the 5+++ save would be better due to the 3+++. Meph wont last long up front vs lascannons.

 

Well, let's assume that a Meltagun does hit Mephy and deals 6 damage after a failed save. Statistically, he takes only 4 damage after Lord of Death; then he'll only lose 3.33 after the Standard of Sacrifice. 2.77 wounds can be intercepted by the Company Vets (2+ to do so! It sometimes fails!), but let's assume 3 can be - that then only becomes 2.

 

So each (max damage) d6D weapon kills two Company Veterans, assuming that you don't keep any on Mephiston (presumably because there are other shots incoming). If the CV are kept cheap (Storm Bolters and Chainswords, for example) then that's pretty good!

 

 

Fair enough, but I'm looking at devastator squads, predator annihilators, land raiders etc.

[Kallas]

 

Oh totally, the captain is much better in terms of a tank for sure.

 

He actually isn't, greatly anyway.

 

Looking at some weapon types, including a pawn off to Company Veterans (ie, double effect of the SoS):

(Captain first, Meph second; wounds caused assuming automatic hits)

 

Bolters (4/0/0) - 0.072; 0.016

Heavy Bolter (5/-1/1) - 0.095; 0.047

Lascannon (9/-3/d6 [assuming 4]) - 0.479; 0.501

Meltagun (8/-4/d6 [assuming 4]) - 0.479; 0.632

 

Lighter firepower is worse against Mephiston, predominantly because of his better Toughness (less actual wounding hits) and better base save (better vs AP0, same vs AP-1) and against the big hits his extra FNP is very useful for reducing the actual damage down by a good degree. If you factor in Shield of Sanguinius (assuming it went off/wasn't denied) then he's an excellent choice for being 'bait'. 

[Brother Crimson]

It's gonna be fun once, then your opponent understands and the vets get targeted right away and they die.

[barjed]

I didn't know that SoS stacks with Mephiston's Lord of Death. How is it possible?

[Kallas]

I didn't know that SoS stacks with Mephiston's Lord of Death. How is it possible?

 

There is no core rule that make FNP effects non-stackable; only when an FNP effect says it cannot be used with another, such as Black Rage and Standard of Sacrifice.

[Panzer]

Yeah every FnP like rule stacks unless it says otherwise like the Gift of Foresight that buffs Black Rage instead of stacking or as mentioned the Black Rage and Standard of Sacrifice which cancel eachother completely etc

[barjed]

Okay, so because SoS spells it out explicitly that it doesn't work for Black Rage units, it is IMO likely that Mephiton's stacking will be neutered as well in the future. Anyway, I think I'll try this strat, sounds fun :P

[Kallas]

Nah, Mephiston isn't suffering from the Black Rage, the Black Rage is suffering from Mephiston!

[Diagramdude]

Bouncing wounds around with Bodyguard and Standard of Sacrifice is great and all, but usually you would Pod in mephiston so he can cast wings and get into the guts of their army, right? I suppose this strategy would be your backup in case wings fails or gets denied though... 

 

I don't think dangling Mephiston in front of the enemy army to get him shot at so you can bounce wounds around is a winning play.

 

IMO the best use of a pod is Mephiston and 9 sternguard, 18 S4 AP-2 shots with +1 to wound is exceptional.

[Morticon]

That's filthy.  I love this.  

[Xenith]

I didn't know that SoS stacks with Mephiston's Lord of Death. How is it possible?

 

I believe the first 40K FAQ in July or so last year clarified that you can stack wound ignoring abilities unless otherwise specified.

[NTaW]

From the 40k BRB FAQ:

 

Q: If a model has two rules that allow it to ignore wounds, such as the Disgustingly Resilient ability and the Tenacious Survivor Warlord Trait, can I use them both?

 

A: Unless stated otherwise, yes.

 

Kinda funny but Mephy will get two separate 5+ rolls to ignore damage.

[Grazcruzk]

Yeah, being able to attempt multiple "FnP" saves is something I'm still getting used to, but there are other examples of it out there. Personally I don't have a pod, but it sounds like a lot of fun to try out.