Taking Another Crack at it

[Prot]

Call me crazy with all the Death Guard work, and the pending Thousand Sons release, I'm going to give a go again with my AdMech.

(I only played with Cawl one time since I painted him):

So long story short, I'm thinking of a list with a Crusader Knight using an Ironstorm, and a Basi. (perhaps meltagun). The Battalion has Cawl running the show. Good idea or should I ditch Cawl?

[Ammonius]

Your long story was made too short methinks: 

What type of points? How many of those points? What is a Basi? What other units will Cawl be with?

 

However, with models that look that good? Run with it every time, you'll win the moral victory right after deployment.

[synthaside]

Welcome Back, Magos Prot 

I trust you have fully purged this heretical malware from your systems.

I guess what your doing will depend on what your goals are going to be ....  do you want to win ?, or do you want to have amazing games ... Do you want to do it your way?

From what I remember you were getting discouraged by the playstyle that we seem to be being forced into by playing mars .... have you considered a more mobile Ad mech, I am playing and using my Gunline mars when im playing against very competitive lists, But when im playing for fun, im running Metallica with charging units of electro priests Vanguard, Sicarians ..  and dragoons .

In my experience in all my games Cawl has been an absolute legend  ... so much so my regular opponents keep trying to kill him as quickly as possible.
I just hate being pigeonholed into mars by him.

You mentioned Thousand son's, what is to stop you from taking a detachment of them and playing you mech as dark mechanicum , Red is still the colour of mars those heretek's will still honor the red planet...  and dogma will not have changed so much ...

For me the narrative is king ... even when im playing competitively , i need a story ... take a little time and come up with a cool backstory for whats happening ... you will enjoy the game all the more

Edited January 24, 2018 by synthaside

[Clingy]

That Cawl model is simply exquisite. Very well done sir

[BitsHammer]

That is a very well done Cawl. You're tempting me to get one of my own to paint up by showing me something that nice.

 

I can't add much to what has already been said, but I have been seeing a lot of reports that Mars is basically the Ad Mech Gunline build. If you're looking to be less static for casual play at least then one of the other Forge Worlds may serve you better.

[Charlo]

Cawl is amazing!

 

Very competent in combat too.

 

You just gotta love a 9" rerolling aura on a big base.

[Prot]

Yea I might be barking up the wrong tree.

 

The thing is I’m pretty old school. I never mix factions even to my own detriment, and Cawl / mars is really what drew me to the army.

[BitsHammer]

Yea I might be barking up the wrong tree.

 

The thing is I’m pretty old school. I never mix factions even to my own detriment, and Cawl / mars is really what drew me to the army.

I understand you completely! I have trouble mixing factions myself, and honestly with Cawl being the only SC to give any of the Forge Worlds extra flavor (plus having an excellent model no less) it is hard to turn down the lure he brings.

 

I'm sure there are less gunline versions of Mars to play (perhaps screening Cawl with Vanguard while a Dominus supports the rear elements of the army (like sniping Vanguard and Dunecrawlers)?

 

Honestly I'm not a gunline player, which is probably part of why Sisters appealed to me so much: you had to play rather aggressively, but at the same time intelligently, to be effective. Short range shooting armies are viable when played well, but can be easily crippled by player errors (poor movement, forgetting rules, ect).

 

The easy way to use someone like Cawl, or Guilliman, or even a generic CM is to park them near a heavy weapon gun line to use their re-rolls to hit, but while that is the simplest method, I don't think it's the only one. Mars (and by extension Ultramarines because they fall into a very similar position for Marines) is basically the most balanced choice. Nothing outstanding in how it changes the army as it instead doubles down on the basics of the army and lets us play with them. It's definitely the most generalist way to the play the army and by extension I feel like that means you can tool an army up for just about any option, but you'll be less effective at some things than other armies. This isn't a bad thing, but it does mean we need to look past the easiest way to build a list and start considering a few things.

 

Since we're looking at Mars, we know we need to consider something to put pressure on the opponent early on to help force them to deal with multiple threats: Infiltrators are a good fit for this because they can pop up in your opponent's face and even if you fail that turn 1 charge you can are still a massive distraction that needs to be dealt with pretty quickly before you do tear out a chunk of their army.

 

I want to say that Kastellans might make for a hilarious way to escort Cawl up the board (being pretty tough, plus with Cawl repairing them they'd be harder to drop) but it might encourage too much focus on a specific part of the army, so I'd say using Vanguard or Destroyers would be better since they'd be able to screen for Cawl while benefiting from his re-rolls.

 

I feel like a good army needs multiple threats: some that are basically immediate (short range high powered shooting via deep strike or some form of scout like movement, or a unit that can tear things up if they get into melee), some that hit on turn 2-3 or at least take the middle of the table and claim it as their own, and lastly a rear support element that helps prevent your midfield units from being pincer-attacked by an army that can bring stuff in behind you later in the game (additionally they can hold backfield objectives, and should be equipped with longer range weapons. Most anti-heavy tank weapons tend to fill in this section for most armies).

 

Basically I'd (generally) build an army to look something like this:

 

+HQ+

Cawl

Dominus (wargear based on if he stays in the back to repair Dunecrawlers and support your Vanguard or if he moves forward to help support another unit)

 

+Elite+

Infiltrators (either 2 units of 5 or 1 unit of 10)

Cybernetica Datasmith (to support your Kastelans)

 

+Troops+

Vanguard with a pair of Plasma Guns (either 2 units of 5 and Omniscopes, or 1 unit of 10 with Data-tether)

Castellan Destroyers (Plasma is the most efficient choice, but Grav is reasonably effective if your local meta has a lot of bodies and not as many tanks to deal with)

Rangers with a pair of Transuranic Arquebuses (2 units of 5, each posted on a flank position in the deployment zone. Take 10 in each unit if points allow)

 

+Fast Attack+

Dragoons (unit size based on points, but these guys should be hitting the enemy no later than turn 2. Try to use them to take on support units and weaker support characters more than the tooled up character hunters that some armies have).

 

+Heavy Support+

Dunecrawlers (at least two of them, and one of them needs a Neutron Laser. Take an Icarus Array if you face a lot of units with fly, otherwise take a second Neutron Laser. Always take data tethers for the strategem bonus)

Kastelan Robots (I'd say the shootier ones are better for walking, but I'd take a mixed unit so the punchier ones can tear up some squishier units once you cross the board since these shouldn't be sitting on the back lines just shooting)

 

If you have the points and aren't using Cawl to support the Kastelan then run him with the Vanguard and/or Destroyers. He's screenable due to only having 8 wounds and you'll definitely need something to screen him to get him up the board.

 

As always, cover is your best friend since the army is basically stuck walking at the moment (still not sure why we don't have a Transport Dunecrawler option).

 

That's just my two-bits though.

[Subtle Discord]

I say embrace what you came for and just completely accept the linchpin that is Cawl, and be completely unapologetic about it; I trust that the Mechanicus would condone this line of logic. +++ Enjoy the Game + All Stop +++

 

That's not to say you shouldn't play without him when you want to change things up a bit, but don't resist the idea that you know when you're going to bring your 'A' game that Cawl is going to be on the field. In those cases put him on the field, and jam him down your opponents throat. As long as you're playing a straight game, don't worry about any negative voice, should it come from the other side of the table or the back of your mind.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Excellent work on the Magos.

[Tyriks]

I frequently plop Cawl in with 4 kastelans and March up the board. When they get to the middle (so they can shoot more or less everything) I sometimes change protocols for double shooting and just go to town. It does make for a juicy target but kastelans are tough and need a reroll due to poor Bs and heavy weapons. I also usually have 3 Onagers which tend to get picked on first. I play guard a lot and his Leman Russes have yet to kill a single model in our games because the Onagers always take them out immediately, so that fact makes the Onagers a feared sight more than my kastelans.

 

I think where AdMech can really shine is that it's hard to properly prioritize what units to kill first. With a knight, Onagers and some robots on the table in a 2000 point game no matter what they focus on the others will go to town. Even our troops are surprisingly deadly with plasma or arc rifles.

[Prot]

Thanks for the kind words on Cawl guys....

Yea I might be barking up the wrong tree.

The thing is I’m pretty old school. I never mix factions even to my own detriment, and Cawl / mars is really what drew me to the army.

I understand you completely! I have trouble mixing factions myself, and honestly with Cawl being the only SC to give any of the Forge Worlds extra flavor (plus having an excellent model no less) it is hard to turn down the lure he brings.

I'm sure there are less gunline versions of Mars to play (perhaps screening Cawl with Vanguard while a Dominus supports the rear elements of the army (like sniping Vanguard and Dunecrawlers)?

/snip

That's just my two-bits though.

Thanks for the ideas. That does look a lot like my earlier lists. In my AdMech thread in the forum I've linked some of the games I batrepped here. I think the basic Cawl Wall as I call it, is effective but a bit one dimensional. I have Ork hordes, and Nids to deal with for instance. I find in Maelstrom I lose board control very easily, and am engaged T1 (if I'm not careful) or T2 if I am careful.

I've started to flex out with the Infiltrators which are good. The Dragoons are good to. Combined they start to gobble points from your really killy stuff though, and this is where I struggle. (Although I love Cawl, I'm reluctant to do the 5+ Mars-bot mega shooty army... it just seems a little boring for me.)

So the idea with the Knight is... I mean I REALLY think GW intends for us to use them. The cards help them, our repair helps them.... if I'm not mistaken with the re-repair strat, and the +1 to repair result strat, we can.... in theory repair 3 wounds on a Knight per turn???

That with Rotate Shields and (if needed, extend the Canticles)... now that's a really heavy CP burn, but I'm just saying the tools are there.

I say embrace what you came for and just completely accept the linchpin that is Cawl, and be completely unapologetic about it; I trust that the Mechanicus would condone this line of logic. +++ Enjoy the Game + All Stop +++

don't worry about any negative voice, should it come from the other side of the table or the back of your mind.

That's some great stuff. I like it. I don't feel sheepish about Cawl. To be honest someone said to me with all my play time with Ultra's that this army (especially with Cawl) would feel a lot like Ultra's. He was right...it does, except not nearly as mobile, or able to 'recover' from CC.

Cawl would definitely be the center piece.

I frequently plop Cawl in with 4 kastelans and March up the board. When they get to the middle (so they can shoot more or less everything) I sometimes change protocols for double shooting and just go to town. It does make for a juicy target but kastelans are tough and need a reroll due to poor Bs and heavy weapons. I also usually have 3 Onagers which tend to get picked on first. I play guard a lot and his Leman Russes have yet to kill a single model in our games because the Onagers always take them out immediately, so that fact makes the Onagers a feared sight more than my kastelans.

I think where AdMech can really shine is that it's hard to properly prioritize what units to kill first. With a knight, Onagers and some robots on the table in a 2000 point game no matter what they focus on the others will go to town. Even our troops are surprisingly deadly with plasma or arc rifles.

I've not used more than 2 Kastelans since 8th. I do struggle against Astra though. The indirect and out distance is an issue. Plus they are more mobile in those... Maelstrom games. However, this is a fairly different list for me... first time with a Knight in 8th:

Knight Crusader: Avenger, Ironstorm, Battle Cannon: 556

Battalion:

Dominus (Autocaduceus of Arkan Land) Eradication Ray: 127

TechPriest 47

10 Vanguard 2 plasma cavaliers, data tether 117

5 Rangers Arquebus 60

5 Rangers Arquebus 60

2 Sydonian Dragoons 136 (I actually have a love/hate with these guys. They actually work very well with some strategems in numbers, but really just seem to be a tie up unit. Not sure if I need them in this list, but they are in all my lists)

Spearhead Detachment:

Cawl: 240

Datasmith 44

5 Infiltrators: 110 ( I really need these guys for objectives. I keep wanting to try 10 of these guys with "Wrath of Mars".

2 Kastelan Robots Phosphor Blasters all the way: 220

Onager Dunecrawler: Netron Laser/Congnis Heavy Stubber/Data tether: 140

Onager: Same as above.

List total is 1997.

It's tight. Not much room. I miss my Jazz Hands Priests... I usually play with 10 but they either go big or go home and the Knight should easily replace their role.

I have trouble without using at least 2 Dunecrawlers so the Spearhead seems like a no-brainer because I also almost always play with a Brigade. I won't be able to with a Knight, so I bet I'm starved for CP's early.

Any thoughts or tweaks? Am I doing the math right on the Knight (possible repair of 3 per turn?)

The boys are ready to roll: (wish I would have magnetized them!)

Edited January 25, 2018 by Prot

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The war robots are well painted, but I'm surprised their stubber muzzles are the blue of an energy weapon, instead of red. Do the stubbers "count as" a Forge World product that's currently unavailable?

[BitsHammer]

The war robots are well painted, but I'm surprised their stubber muzzles are the blue of an energy weapon, instead of red. Do the stubbers "count as" a Forge World product that's currently unavailable?

 

Probably the Heavy Phosphor Blaster that replaces the incendine combustor.

[Prot]

Nope.. just me being me. I was the kid that drew pictures of a green sky and blue grass in school. ;)

[BitsHammer]

Nope.. just me being me. I was the kid that drew pictures of a green sky and blue grass in school.

 

Fair enough!

[WarriorFish]

Top work Prot as always, and you can always magnetise the next ones - don't forget a tutorial if you do ;)

[Tyriks]

The war robots are well painted, but I'm surprised their stubber muzzles are the blue of an energy weapon, instead of red. Do the stubbers "count as" a Forge World product that's currently unavailable?

They're actually phosphor blasters, but the model in the box is basically a stubbers. So in this instance it is an energy weapon, at least of sorts.

[Battybattybats]

 

The war robots are well painted, but I'm surprised their stubber muzzles are the blue of an energy weapon, instead of red. Do the stubbers "count as" a Forge World product that's currently unavailable?

They're actually phosphor blasters, but the model in the box is basically a stubbers. So in this instance it is an energy weapon, at least of sorts.

Phosphor weapons are bullet-type guns that fire very nasty ammunition. Think of tracer rounds taken up to 11.

[Tyriks]

Since the shots are described as glowing balls of energy I just assumed it was an energy weapon. Like each "round" is just a mini reactor or something. That or that the fluff doesn't fit the model...

[Magos Takatus]

It would be a bullet giving off a load of thermal energy if that counts? :) As Batty says, it's pretty much a light autocannon with incendiary rounds. 

[Prot]

Great discussion about if I applied the right energy treatment to the gun barrels... Anyway.... any thoughts on the list? This game will be happening in the next few hours. Do you see much fat I can trim?