Tactical Squad Sergeant loadouts.

[TheEmperorsPride]

I'm building a army list and I was wondering if the Sergeants of my tactical squads can take stormshields. I know assault squad sergeants and veteran sergeants can so I was wondering if all sergeants can. I first wanted to go with Blood Angels or one of their successor chapters and was amazed by the hand flamer. Is this weapon Blood Angels specific or can Ultramarines take them too?

[Stickeh]

Tactical squad sergeants can’t im afraid, they’re only allowed wargear from the ‘Sergeant Equipment’ list on page 131, which doesn’t include storm shields. The hand flamer is also unavailable to codex units, blood angel only.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

If I took Tactical marines I'd give the sergeant a combi-weapon matching the squad special weapon, and that's about it.

 

Of course I don't take Tactical marines.

[Toxichobbit]

I'd never noticed that Tactical Sergeants can't take storm shields. Now I have no idea what to do with my FW boarding Marine (the one with the shield and thunder hammer).

I concure with the above that combi-weapons are the best option for Tacticals. I still use pistols or melee weapons from time to time though, just for variety and because I'm usually playing in a relaxed environment.

[Seahawk]

I usually go with storm bolter, or storm bolter and combi weapon for extra more dakka. Edited January 28, 2018 by Seahawk

[Newtoncain]

Bare bones Chainsword to replace bolt pistol.

[phoenix01]

The FW Boarding Marine would make a swell Vanguard Veteran or Company Veteran.

[ZombyWoof]

Bolt pistol, chainsword, and melta bombs. Or BP and power fist.

[crazyterran]

As Ultramarines, Combi Weapon and Chainsword is probably your best bet. Rarely are you going to want to stick around in combat long enough to use your bolt pistol there; if you are charging with tactical marines, your opponent will likely retreat himself, and if you get charged, you likely dont want to be there for another round of combat anyways. Might as well make the extra attack with the chainsword, and shoot as much as you can with the combi weapon.

[CCE1981]

Question on the wording in the codex (this seems like a good place to ask). With the wording of the tactical squad sergeant, can I potentially take 2x combi-weapons?

 

“The Space Marine Sergeant may replace his bolt pistol and boltgun with items from the Sergeant Equipment list.”

 

I don’t think I would be going 2x combi-weapons that often, however a bolt pistol, combi-weapon, power sword could be an option. Based on the wording between the two sections I see both interpretations as equally valud.

[Joukernaut]

No you can't, check the wording on the sergeant items listing.

And.........it makes no sense if you're honest.

Try holding and firing two rifles at the same time and see if you can hit your target.

To me this feels like looking for crazy loopholes and exploits to brake the game.

[CCE1981]

No you can't, check the wording on the sergeant items listing.

And.........it makes no sense if you're honest.

Try holding and firing two rifles at the same time and see if you can hit your target.

To me this feels like looking for crazy loopholes and exploits to brake the game.

Then why is “items” plural? Again I am trying to make sure if combi-gun + power sword + bolt pistol is legitimate. The swap would be bolt pistol for bolt pistol + power sword AND boltgun for combi-weapon.

 

I don’t see how that is really crazy.

 

I might not be able to accurately fire two guns at the same time, but are 9’ tall superhumans in power armor able to rip the rear hatch off of a rhino. Plus, game mechanics rarely meet reality.

Edited February 9, 2018 by CCE1981

[Seahawk]

Of course you can take two rifles, I do it all the time: storm bolter and bolter. Lots of bolter action!

 

Joukernaut: It doesn't matter that it doesn't make sense in your mind. The rule is functional and clearly states he can replace both weapons with sergeant equipment. Now, a dude cannot take two combi-weapons (the list says only one choice from that section), but since the sergeant can keep his bolter that he starts with, he can have two rifles.

 

Besides, these are genetically bred super-duper soldiers in a magic-filled reality-bending universe, and you think holding two rifles is the thing that's out of place?

[Joukernaut]

I do think holding two rifles is out of place, but that's probably beside the point.

I also wasn't arguing he could swap both of his weapons for an item from the sergeant equipment.

I was answering his question about equipping two combi-weapons, which is prohibited by the rules.

I also don't think the plural is meant to be able to end up with three items instead of two, but to indicate you can swap your bolt pistol for an item and swap your bolter for an item.

otherwise everyone would exchange their bolt pistol for two free chain swords.

I would also argue equipping a bolter and a stormbolter is illegal since the list says only one weapon can be chosen. If you are already carrying one, I would find it strange to still pick another and end up with two.

[Toxichobbit]

I would also argue equipping a bolter and a stormbolter is illegal since the list says only one weapon can be chosen. If you are already carrying one, I would find it strange to still pick another and end up with two.

 

I agree with this. The "and" in the sentence means you swap both the bolt pistol and boltgun for access to the Sergeant Equipment list. You can't just swap out the pistol and keep the boltgun. That's why both bolt pistols and boltguns are in the Sergeant Equipment list in the first place, to allow you to replace one of the two wepaons you swapped out. If you want the boltgun back then it has the be the one weapon you're allowed from the "rifles" section of the Sergeant equipment list, meaning no access to storm bolters or combi-weapons (sadly). It would need to be something like "The Space Marine Sergeant may swap his bolt pistol and/or boltgun with items from the Sergeant equipment list" in order to allow you to just swap the pistol for one of the other rifles and keep the boltgun.

 

You could take dual pistols or melee weapons though.

[CCE1981]

Yes, you have to swap out your bolter AND bolt pistols for ITEMS (plural) from the Sergeant list.

 

The Wargear List paragraph only states ITEM (singular)

 

So does the bolter giver you ONE shot at the sergeant list AND the bolt pistol a SECOND?

[Joukernaut]

I would say so, yes

[Toxichobbit]

Yes, you have to swap out your bolter AND bolt pistols for ITEMS (plural) from the Sergeant list.

 

The Wargear List paragraph only states ITEM (singular)

 

So does the bolter giver you ONE shot at the sergeant list AND the bolt pistol a SECOND?

 

That makes the most sense. It's not well worded, but lets face it, that's not unusual for GW. I think it's safe to say that the intention is it's a 1 to 1 swap. So boltgun for one item, bolt pistol for another. Limit of only one item from the "rifles" section.

[Seahawk]

Damn, a holdover from yesteryear. Shows how much I've played with the new codex! (that is, not at all)

 

Fun fact: a tactical sergeant with two chainswords makes 4 attacks. 1A with chainsword 1 = 2 attacks, and 1A with chainsword 2 = 2 more attacks, total of 4. Not a bad close combat addition to a squad.

[Joukernaut]

the double chainsword is what all the hype is about with vanguard vets. 4 attacks per model.

The tac serge wouldn't be able to carry a bolter if he has double chainswords though.

[Prot]

the double chainsword is what all the hype is about with vanguard vets. 4 attacks per model.

The tac serge wouldn't be able to carry a bolter if he has double chainswords though.

Maybe this deserves its own topic, but are people really playing this?

[Stickeh]

I have one squad of VV with power swords and bolt pistols that I built last edition, and another of double chainswords. I can attest that it’s pretty good, although it’s not a universal solution. I’ve done the mathammer and against MEQ you’re better off with the power swords, dealing approx 1 more unsaved wound per combat. The real strength of it is the fact the unit is 20 points cheaper, benefits more from rerolls that marines have ready access to, and when you’re rolling hot the top end damage potential is much higher. You also don’t have to worry about pesky invuln saves.

[Captain Idaho]

I have a Vanguard squad with 4 dual Lightning Claws, 3 dual Chainswords and 3 Storm shields and Chainswords. ALL the attacks.

 

That is besides the topic... I like my Veteran Sergeants to have Combi weapons and that's it really. On my Tactical Marines at least.