Potential tournament list.

[Claws and Effect]

Ok, I'm planning on attending the Bugeater GT in Omaha in June.

 

This is the list I'm considering.

 

I still need to get a few parts to finish things up, particularly the autocannon arms for the VenDreads and a few other things.

 

Be brutal, rip it apart and give me your honest opinion on how you think it will perform.

 

It's not set in stone, so I can change things up if need be. However, I cannot purchase a bunch of stuff, so some suggestions may not be an option.

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [71 PL, 1312pts] ++

 

+ No Force Org Slot +

 

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

 

Gametype: Matched

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 165pts]

. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

 

Whirlwind [5 PL, 95pts]: Whirlwind castellan launcher

 

+ Troops +

 

Scout Squad [6 PL, 90pts]: 5x Camo cloak

. Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle

. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts]

. 3x Space Marine

. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

 

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 65pts]

. 4x Space Marine

. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

 

+ HQ +

 

Captain [6 PL, 133pts]: Combi-melta, Jump Pack, Raven's Fury, Thunder hammer

 

Kayvaan Shrike [8 PL, 150pts]

 

+ Elites +

 

Company Veterans [8 PL, 147pts]

. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun

. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun

. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun

. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun

. Veteran Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma

 

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [13 PL, 202pts]

. Dreadnought melee weapon: Dreadnought combat weapon, Storm bolter

. Kheres assault cannon

 

Terminator Squad [12 PL, 242pts]

. Terminator Sergeant: Power sword, Storm bolter

. Terminator w/Heavy Weapon: Power fist

. . Cyclone Missile Launcher and Storm Bolter: Cyclone missile launcher, Storm bolter

. 3x Terminator w/PF: 3x Power fist, 3x Storm bolter

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 150pts]: Jump Pack

. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw

. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw

. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw

. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw

. Veteran Sergeant: 2x Lightning Claw

 

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [26 PL, 485pts] ++

 

+ No Force Org Slot +

 

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

 

+ HQ +

 

Techmarine [4 PL, 62pts]: Boltgun, Power axe, Servo-arm

 

+ Elites +

 

Aggressor Squad [6 PL, 111pts]: 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant, Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 156pts]: Twin autocannon, Twin autocannon

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 156pts]: Twin autocannon, Twin autocannon

 

++ Total: [110 PL, 1999pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

[Claws and Effect]

Yes, I know I almost have another Vanguard detachment. Unfortunately one of the rules for this tournament us that detachments must be unique, so I can't double up.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Be brutal?  

 

Ok... those terminators are trash get rid of them.  They are decent anti chaff with the stormbolters but not for 242 points.  

Dump the tech marine.  No one is going to attack your vehicles without the intention of destroying them completely.  This is especially true for dreads since they do not degrade and have lower wounds than most other vehicles.  

 

Drop the company vets with plasmaguns.  Assuming you wanted to get them into range with SFTS, they will not delivery any dmg in probably half your games.  

 

Drop the two bolter tac squads and replace with cheaper bolter scouts.  Their dmg output is the same as tacs but they cost less. 

 

Drop the Thunderhammer melta captain.  He adds very little for 130ish points.  Maybe trim him down to 90 points and have him aura buff your shooty dreads/devs.  

 

Things you SHOULD consider adding.  I think you can go in two directions here. 

 

1. Infantry Horde/Gunline

 

Add devs with lascannons

Add devs with plasmacannons

Add a bannerman and upgrade it to the relic banner.

Add more vanguard vets with twin claws OR vanguard vets with plasma pistols/swords

Add Scout Bikers with stormbolters.  They do more dmg to screens than your terminators for only 77 points.  And they are fast buggers.

Add a second whirlwind if you can.

 

2. Dread/Armour/Somethingb scary

Add Leviathan dread(s).  These things do a lot of dmg with the cannons and are quite durable with RG chapter tactics.

Add more scouts to keep things away from your dreads.

Add a LT for the wound rerolls.

Bring back the tech marine... if you had a leviathan or two then the tech marine would have a job.

[Claws and Effect]

So in other words, replace 80% of my list entirely.

 

Thanks. It's good to know I wasted my money so thoroughly.

 

I do find it odd how you're telling me to dump the terminators because they're too expensive, and the Techmarine I took because he was cheap.

 

Could you make a suggestion of something that is good anti-infantry, is durable, and I can deep strike without spending CP or buying a drop pod? Because that's why I took the Terminators.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Claws and Effect

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Dont ask for brutality then get indignant about it when it comes.

 

That aside, how about just replacing those terminators with something.. leave everything else in place.  

 

for 240 points you could get...

2 more whirlwinds  This would cover your anti infantry

2 thunderfire cannons.  ditto

2 assault cannon razorbacks

2 squads of heavy bolter devs.  

 

for 260 points could could get...

10 company vets with stormbolters in a drop pod.  You just doubled your shots for 20 points over the terminators.  

 

There you go.  That is ONE tweak that you could perhaps handle in terms of model availability that would all be improvements.   

 

Apologies for excessive brutality.  Just tryin' to help :X

[Claws and Effect]

It's not the brutality that annoyed me. It's the fact that your fixes involved spending another $200-$400 that I already said I couldn't do in the OP.

 

I took the Terminators specifically because I wanted something that could deep strike out in the open and survive while not h aving to pray to the dice gods that they make a 9" charge.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

It's not the brutality that annoyed me. It's the fact that your fixes involved spending another $200-$400 that I already said I couldn't do in the OP.

 

I took the Terminators specifically because I wanted something that could deep strike out in the open and survive while not h aving to pray to the dice gods that they make a 9" charge.

2 more whirlwinds would be a good replacement.  

[Claws and Effect]

 

 

It's not the brutality that annoyed me. It's the fact that your fixes involved spending another $200-$400 that I already said I couldn't do in the OP.

 

I took the Terminators specifically because I wanted something that could deep strike out in the open and survive while not h aving to pray to the dice gods that they make a 9" charge.

2 more whirlwinds would be a good replacement.

$80 I don't have to spend. I own 1 whirlrhinoback.

[Claws and Effect]

The couple Leviathans you suggested also are not an option.

 

The last tournament held by the same people that I attended had a limit of 1 Forgeworld unit. Since they haven't released the full rules for this one yet I'm operating on the assumption that it will be the same.

 

If I drop the Contemptor for anything it will be my Fire Raptor, which I already own.

 

The other reason for my reluctance to drop the Terminators is I literally just bought them, and I want to get some use out of them before I shelve them if they turn out to suck.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Well then I guess you should go with what you got.  

[Claws and Effect]

Well then I guess you should go with what you got.

I'll probably drop the Company Vets, and maybe the Contemptor and something else to see if I can fit the Fire Raptor in.

[duz_]

C&E I feel like we went down a similar path last year?

Im sure plenty of the Frater here would like to give some feedback but probably need a bit more to go on.

 

How many rounds is the event?

Is it using the new ITC Champions missions or the previous Combined Arms?

What is your goal of attending?

eg. Have fun bring some of the models you like to play with

Win the majority of games

Finish top 8

 

And given as it appears to be your largest constraint what models do you have access too that aren't on your roster.

 

At a quick glance at your list and Sang' has already pointed out I believe. You do lack anti horde redundancy.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

C&E I feel like we went down a similar path last year?

Im sure plenty of the Frater here would like to give some feedback but probably need a bit more to go on.

 

How many rounds is the event?

Is it using the new ITC Champions missions or the previous Combined Arms?

What is your goal of attending?

eg. Have fun bring some of the models you like to play with

Win the majority of games

Finish top 8

 

And given as it appears to be your largest constraint what models do you have access too that aren't on your roster.

 

At a quick glance at your list and Sang' has already pointed out I believe. You do lack anti horde redundancy.

When I read "competitive" and "be brutal" I assumed that model availability and cash to spend on new models were not concerns.  That is usually the case.      

[Claws and Effect]

How many rounds is the event?

It is 6 rounds over 2 days

 

Is it using the new ITC Champions missions or the previous Combined Arms?

I actually have no idea. They haven't released the full rules for the event yet. Understandable, given that it is 5 months away still.

 

What is your goal of attending?

eg. Have fun bring some of the models you like to play with

Win the majority of games

Finish top 8

 

Have fun first and foremost. A top 8 finish would be nice, but I seriously doubt that will happen even if I netlist. I'll settle for not losing every game like I did last time (more poor tactics than a flaw with my list).

 

And given as it appears to be your largest constraint what models do you have access too that aren't on your roster.

I'm working from memory here, so I might forget a few things.

 

- My Fire Raptor. It's going to be converted over to 2 twin lascannons before then. It would have been built that way, but the lascannons weren't an option at the time. Debating on autocannons.

 

- More Vanguard Veterans with claws. I have 10 total, with 5 already in the list. I'd like to keep them separate as 5 are Dark Furies and it bothers my sense of aesthetics to mix them.

 

- Around 20 Assault Marines. With some creativity I could probably get a squad of dual chainsword Vanguard out if that.

 

- Enough Tacticals to either run 4 squads MSU, or 2 full squads. I do lack special weapon guys, but I can convert if need be.

 

- A plasma cannon Dev squad. I also have another plasma cannon I could add to a Tac squad if needed.

 

- 5 melee Scouts. I believe I have enough on sprues still to make one more squad of them with any options but sniper.

 

- 2 Land Speeder Tempests. I actually haven't used these yet.

 

- 2 Chaplains. 1 jump, 1 normal with plasma.

 

- Eversor and Culexus assassins. I also have a converted Telion model with an Anvil Industry anti material rifle I can use as a Vindicare counts as.

 

- I can run the Whirlwind as a Razorback or Rhino as well. It was actually a Razorback kit I bought a Kromlech missile launcher for.

 

- Stormraven with assault cannon and multimeltas. I left it out of the list because my prior experience in the meta showed me it will die before it delivers its cargo. I would also rather spend the 300+ points on the Fire Raptor, which is more durable and kills more stuff.

 

- I could possibly swap the Tac squads over to special/combi and stick the heavy bolters in a Dev squad instead. I had them in Tactical squads for Hellfire redundancy.

 

- I have 5 MkVI Marines from FW that I could build as just about anything. I had planned on doing Sternguard, but my Elites slots are at a premium already.

 

The only rules I know of that are confirmed are unique detachments (No more than 1 of any given detachment) and a 3 detachment limit. There are also Forgeworld limits, but I don't know for sure how restrictive they are. The last one was no more than 1 Forgeworld unit unless your whole army was Forgeworld (Elysians or Krieg). That was before Chapter approved, though. They might lift the restriction a little.

 

Oh, I'm keeping the melta hammer Captain no matter what. He has a specific job to do that no one else is equipped for: murder something big and die gloriously. He won't be the Warlord, so if he knocks enough wounds off something to help bring it down before he dies I'll be happy. The reason I gave him a combi-melta is because he can fire it after advancing, and the relic jump pack let's him charge after advancing. I chose a Captain over a LT because he has a 2+ BS as well, which will help alleviate the -1 for shooting the melta after advancing. I'm hoping to get him within melta range of something turn 1 and have a better chance of getting the charge to stick. I'll place him with SFTS if I have to in order to make that happen. This guy is going to be thrown at Magnus (hopefully) before he gets his 3+ invuln with rerollable 1s buggery going on. I know there will be 5 Magnuses there at bare minimum, so I will probably see him at least once over 6 games. He's the only large unit that really scares me, just because I lack a good counter to his crap. You

Edited January 29, 2018 by Claws and Effect

[Claws and Effect]

Does this look better?

 

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [39 PL, 653pts] ++

 

+ No Force Org Slot +

 

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

 

Gametype: Matched

 

+ Troops +

 

Scout Squad [6 PL, 90pts]: 5x Camo cloak

. Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle

. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

Scout Squad [6 PL, 55pts]

. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Combat knife

. 4x Scout w/Boltgun

 

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts]

. 3x Space Marine

. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

 

+ Flyer +

 

Fire Raptor Assault Gunship [19 PL, 358pts]

. Two quad heavy bolters: 2x Quad heavy bolter

. Two twin hellstrike launchers: 2x Twin hellstrike launcher

 

+ HQ +

 

Captain [6 PL, 133pts]: Combi-melta, Jump Pack, Raven's Fury, Thunder hammer

 

Kayvaan Shrike [8 PL, 150pts]

 

+ Elites +

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 150pts]: Jump Pack

. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw

. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw

. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw

. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw

. Veteran Sergeant: 2x Lightning Claw

 

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [26 PL, 486pts] ++

 

+ No Force Org Slot +

 

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

 

+ HQ +

 

Lieutenants [4 PL, 63pts]

. Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

 

+ Elites +

 

Aggressor Squad [6 PL, 111pts]: 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant, Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 156pts]: Twin autocannon, Twin autocannon

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 156pts]: Twin autocannon, Twin autocannon

 

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [26 PL, 503pts] ++

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 165pts]

. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

 

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 149pts]

. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon

 

Whirlwind [5 PL, 95pts]: Whirlwind castellan launcher

 

+ HQ +

 

Captain [5 PL, 94pts]: Combi-plasma, Power axe

 

++ Total: [110 PL, 2000pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

It does look better.

 

Minor Tweaks... that thunder hammer captain would be better as a buff captain for all your backfield stuff.  Just give him the teeth of terra or a master crafted boltgun.  You could also consider a librarian(assuming you have a model that can pass for a librarian) and use it to cast might of heroes/psychic fortress on the Fire Raptor.  

 

One more thing you could do... take that heavy bolter from the tac squad and dump it into the plasma dev squad so you can use signum with hellfire rounds.  

[Claws and Effect]

I already explained the hammer Captain. He's staying because he has a job to do. I added another captain to babysit the backfield stuff.

 

No Librarians. I'll consider the heavy bolter idea.

[Race Bannon]

Yesss.  Join the Lead Farmers ^_^

[Jacques Corbin]

For my Devastator Sergeants, I do Chainsword, holstered pistol, and either pointing arm, or he is reading an Auspex. The Chainsword, because people love to deep strike in melee units nearby, and it gives him a 3rd swing if he survives the charge, and it is free. The holstered pistol gets me around WYSIWYG, because as long as I denote what kind of pistol he has in my list, then that is what pistol he has on the field.

 

I like the "Signum the Hellfire rounds" idea. I usually run Heavy Bolters in my MSU Scouts, as they do not attract a lot of attention, either due to not making a lot of noise, or not being worth the points it takes to dig them out of cover. I loves games where my opponent ignores them, and then later I am like "by the way, eat d3 Mortal Wounds", but admittedly, hitting on 2+ would be so much better.

 

One unit that I take advantage of way more in 8th is a Squad of stock standard Sternguard. Their Bolters are -2AP, which is awesome enough, but they also have 30" range. They are my Deep Strike insurance. I will "mistakenly" leave a far too tempting place for an enemy unit to drop in. It is worth every bit of 2CP to bust out Auspex Scan, and fire off 10 shots of those AP-2 Bolters from the Sternguard, or from my Devastators, whichever unit is within 12". Those Sternguard have murdered a Chaos Terminator Lord, and more Recently a Tau Crisis Commander, that my opponent decided to drop in. Auspex Scan says "immediately after the model is placed" and both opponents placed their character first, which I took full advantage of. Both times, we had to look it up in the Codex. The Tau player refused to believe the data card was accurate, demanded to see it in my codex, and then called over our club's de facto referee after he saw it in writing in the codex. He ended his turn in a foul mood, and conceded after I finished my turn. By the Throne I HATE the filthy Tau!

[deadangel101]

I'm confused as to why you have one missile launcher in the dev squad with the lascannons. Is it for the Flakk missile strategem? Why not take 4 lascannons and put that missile launcher in a tac squad?

[Claws and Effect]

I'm confused as to why you have one missile launcher in the dev squad with the lascannons. Is it for the Flakk missile strategem? Why not take 4 lascannons and put that missile launcher in a tac squad?

Yes, it's for the strategem.

 

Couple reasons for it.

 

1) The Hellfire strategem is more versatile so I wanted at least one heavy bolter in the list.

 

2) I don't have a 4th lascannon with a matching base and it wouldn't look right having 4 guys with 25mm bases and 1 with a 32mm. I never changed them because it doesn't say I have to, and I dislike unnecessary work.

 

3) If I move the heavy bolter to a Scout squad and the missile launcher to the Tac squad I'd have to come up with another 25 points to pay for it.

[Dracos]

Remember the part about being "brutal"? There is a lot to like about this list but ...

 

 

"Dislike unnecessary work"

 

Brother, if you can't be bothered to switch out a base I don't think there's a lot of suggestions that can be given they're going to be any easier.

 

On the other hand yours have thought out the weapon loads of the missile launcher and heavy bolter with strategems in mind so any thoughts changes their are going to be a six of half dozen thing :)

 

My one thought there are a few areas you could trim points to make room for the missile launcher but I'm sure you know that :)