How do you deal with Harlequin

[Lion's Crown]

Mostly if you expect them to take first turn?

[breng77]

I have not played against them much yet, what seems to be the issue turn 1.

[SnakeChisler]

I have not played against them much yet, what seems to be the issue turn 1.

If they go 1st they have units which can assault T1 + various things which make you go last in combat and also block overwatch.

 

Eye of the unseen seems a banker for this matchup given the prowess of the solitaire and deploy to go 2nd

[CrystalSeer]

First off, much to my chagrin, there is no way to block overwatch unless he's assaulting you from outside of line of sight. Mirage launchers do a -1 to hit, but overwatch is not modifies by this, so you'll still hit on naturals 6's. If you have a rule that lets you overwatch at BS, then that would hit at a -1.

 

After that, Harlequins have an extremely low model count on average, no heavy armor, and max ranges of 24".  They can charge extremely long ranges, but in matched play its only one unit that can move twice; everyone else and only do standard move plus advance. A harlequin player has to out maneuver you and keep you locked in close combat to survive. That means the keys to beating them are:  

 

- Outnumber him. Marines can play the attrition game, Harlequins can not.

- Have overlapping long range fire. This leaves them no "safe" places to go to

- Use drop pods / rhinos to protect your guys from charges. If they get close enough to take out your armor, you can disembark and shred them with bolter fire. 

 

Hope this helps. 

[Stormxlr]

heavy bolters are pretty good aswell, Rapier Quad Bolters are ace.

[Madmonkeyman]

There is almost no good way to

Screen against Harlies with marines. They are really really quick, effectively have the fly key world and will try and assault turn 1 . It's all about volume of fire with these guys to kill them given they have a 4++ . Plasma isn't so good as their transports are all -1 to hit .

[Lion's Crown]

Thanks for the tips guys it should help. I'll try to drown them in bolter fire if I ever hit the field against them.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Not sure if their infantry have fly word, but if they don't, try use your rhinos to tie them in combat. This will prevent them from shooting or charging a turn.

 

Unless they have something that allows them to charge or shoot after falling back, in which case I suggest best way is simple mass bolter fire. Box up your infantry and devastator firebase to leave him no room to "jump" inside, then wait for him to waste his melta pistols opening up the boxes. If he is close enough to use his melta pistols, then he should be close enough for you to use your flamers.

 

Another tactic I think is to "feed him" something to tie him, either scouts as a speed bump, or alternatively a company champion with storm shield.

 

That being said, if his 4++ save rolls are hot, there's almost nothing that can prevent a melta pistol in the face. I say this because apparently, melta pistols are dirt cheap for harleys.

[themortalgod]

The Dark Talon is your friend when facing Harlies, they have few units that can really threaten Talons on turn 1 (since they can't charge it) and hurricane bolters mow through Harlies pretty efficiently. (average 7 dead harlies, on average per turn, if you get to rapid fire into a unit. 5 if the harlies are at -1 to hit) 

 

Assualt bolter inceptors are also an excellent choice for a similar reason. Since you can deep strike them the harlequin player can't charge you before you get a round of shooting, Which can be devastating.

 

Bubble wrapping boltstorm aggressors could also be devastating. (say 10 scouts in a circle around the aggressors) 

[Madmonkeyman]

So harlies don't technically have 'fly' but they can advance and charge , move over terrain like it does exist, fall back from combat and charge again and they can jump over you units. All there weapons are high ap in close combat and they have lots of melta equivalent weapons . They ride in flimsy transports with a -1 to hit and a 4++ , apart from that they have jet bikes which are epic in combat ( and can assault flyers ) . And the solitaire moves a crazy distance and hits very hard in assault. Expect turn 1 charges and hope you have lots of tightly placed bubble rap. If you survive their charge then they are out of there transports and they die like toughness 3 models should :-)

[Kasper_Hawser]

So harlies don't technically have 'fly' but they can advance and charge , move over terrain like it does exist, fall back from combat and charge again and they can jump over you units. All there weapons are high ap in close combat and they have lots of melta equivalent weapons . They ride in flimsy transports with a -1 to hit and a 4++ , apart from that they have jet bikes which are epic in combat ( and can assault flyers ) . And the solitaire moves a crazy distance and hits very hard in assault. Expect turn 1 charges and hope you have lots of tightly placed bubble rap. If you survive their charge then they are out of there transports and they die like toughness 3 models should :-)

 

Ouch. Then I would suggest a totally different approach, instead of pure Greenwing gunline, you'll need some basic terminators to stay off the table and pour in the dakka when they charge @ turn 1, or rather as and when they charge. 4 Stormbolter shots per terminator should be enough to kill at least half of a harly squad, more if you have Belial nearby to add his own stormbolter fire and rerolls.

 

If you use Ravenwing, then have to be really hopeful that your T5 prevents them from wounding too much, before using strategem to fall back and pump them full of bolters and plasma.

[Madmonkeyman]

Things like power fists are not good against them . They are t3 models with a 4++. Agree storm bolters are good. As are aggressors

As are deep striking inceptors with heavy bolters.

 

They also get -1 to wound for all enemy attack for their models near a hq which is really annoying.

 

Shoot them out of their transports to kill their speed. Deploy as far back as you can . If you survive their charge they will go down very very quickly to dakka

[Helycon]

Assault cannons. S6 and not too much AP. Heavy bolters are great too.

[sneakybamsen]

I'd say assault cannons are way better than heavy bolters, as when you deduct 1 from the to wound rolls, heavy bolters will only be wounding them on 4's, where assault cannons will be wounding on 3's. Also twice the amount of shots.

 

But apart from that I'd consider MSU spam, perhaps even loads of scouts. Terminators with DWA might do well on the drop, but after that they are dead in the water, and harlies are awesome against elite units.

[Xenith]

I'm happy to see the day that people need help dealing with Harlequin armies. Good luck!

[Helycon]

I'd say assault cannons are way better than heavy bolters, as when you deduct 1 from the to wound rolls, heavy bolters will only be wounding them on 4's, where assault cannons will be wounding on 3's. Also twice the amount of shots.

 

But apart from that I'd consider MSU spam, perhaps even loads of scouts. Terminators with DWA might do well on the drop, but after that they are dead in the water, and harlies are awesome against elite units.

Why would you need to add 1 to the wound roll?

[Madmonkeyman]

one of their characters makes all units -1 to wound within 6 inches. given they are all t3  assault cannons with their s6 is great.

[march10k]

Virus bomb them from orbit.  It's the only way to be sure!

 

Deepstrike is your friend.  Deathwing isn't advisable for two reasons.  One, DWA isn't going to be effective if they're in their transports, then, and two, terminators are slow, expensive, have issues with the 4++ in melee, and dilute your model count advantage.  Assault marines might be good, they at least match harlies' ability to hit'n'run, and they're almost as mobile.  They just don't have the volume of fire that you want, and you do want to torrent them!  Inceptors should be strong.  Speeders would shred them quite nicely and are mobile enough to match harlies.  I might try a dev squad (with Azzy) with solid bubble of scouts to pop transports for the deepstrikers to then torrent the infantry.  Alternatively, Typhoons to pop the transports and tornadoes to eat the passengers?  I would assume that their unit count is going to be VERY low, so unless you're running a tailored list of maxed out speeder squadrons, dumping them out of their transports in their starting positions isn't likely.  That said, a small number of large speeder squadrons backed by Sammy and a Talon Master probably would get you first turn and would probably ruin the harlies' day?  I hate list-tailoring, though.

Edited January 30, 2018 by march10k

[Stormxlr]

Sicaran Punisher with Heavy Bolter sponsons and 2 Rapier Quad Heavy Bolters. Thats 51 heavy bolter shots ( equivalent of 17 heavy bolters) for 337 points almost 100 points cheaper than 4 devastator squads with 16 heavy bolters, on a tougher platforms with more wounds.  About 6.6 points per shot vs 8.7 points per shot.

 

Seems like a good anti infantry device.

[sneakybamsen]

About the same points will net 3 asscan razors. They should end up doing about the same damage, as they'll wound better, but are harder to tie up in combat and wreck.

 

In the comparison with devs you need to keep in mind that devs don't degenrate when taking damage, so they'll not be hitting on 5's at some point. Also a lot harder to tie up 4 dev squads. But then, who has 16 devastators with heavy bolters?

 

But March10k is right, tailoring sucks.

 

I'll need to find a compromise that can deal with harlies, however, as the reining champion at the local club (he's taken home the last three trophies) is a harlequin player. His army is not tailored I guess, but the last event had 6 power armour lists, 1 orc list and the harlies. He has a field day against elite forces, and space marine lists that don't flesh out, are elite armies.