Las Vegas Open

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

I don't know if anyone else is paying attention but BA are putting in a good show at the LVO.

 

As I write this (10:22PM EST) there are 5 lists in the top 10 with BA in them; of which, 3 are BA main while one is pure.

 

Michael Brant is running BA/Guard and is in 2nd place behind Nick Nanavati's Eldar.

 

Mark Wright is running pure BA and just beat Jared Friedman's Chaos Space Marines to gain 4th. His next match should be against Tony Grippando's Alaitoc/Ynnari.

 

A major highlight of Mark's match was when his Capt Smash charged Jared's Fire Raptor and one rounded it with a damage 4 thunder hammer. The Fire Raptor exploded and does D6 damage to everything in 6 inches; which was most of Jared's army. Final score 22-20 BA victory.

 

I'll probably watch more streams tomorrow and update. Both Warhammer TV and FLG's Twitch streams are going all weekend.

 

Go Mark & Mike!

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Yeah that was an excellent game to watch between Mark and Jared.

Both had great armies and played very well.

Was a real pleasure to watch that one unfold.

 

Here is a link to the army lists in that match for those curious:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/150/733325.page#9806383

 

Here is a link to the Twitch TV stream. BA vs CSM game coverage starts around 6:15:00 in.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/222972094

 

Go BA! - Looks like 2 of the top 8 are BA (1 pure) if I am following things right.

 

Go Mark and Mike !!

Edited January 28, 2018 by Crimson Ghost IX

[Brother Crimson]

It is great to see a pure BA list making the top 4.

 

This list is simple and good. Yet most of us would not get there with the same list.

 

Guess I need more practice.

[ThatOneMarshal]

I have to say that this feels weird to see blood angels being an actual contender at a large tournament. I like it! Reminds me of 5th edition. Marks lists is really interesting in the fact that it forgoes the regular troop scouts list. Also the inclusion of sanguinary guard is fun to see.

 

I look forward to seeing more!

[wildweasel]

I think enough of Mark’s list deep strikes (or Forlorn Fury) that it doesn’t need to zone out the opponent as much. And I’m definitely in Camp BA Intercessors Are Underrated.

[Calistarius]

I totally agree. His list and games have proven scouts aren’t a requirement to win games with the codex. I’ve felt this way, but I lacked any evidence. This makes me happy. I’ve been fielding something similar to this and it’s been quite successful in my community.

[wildweasel]

They are 9 points a Wound and I’ve found in playing against my partner’s DA Primaris that the extra 6” (and 3”’ for double tapping) and AP -1 makes more of a difference than one might think. And of course ours get Red Thirst to give them some punch.

 

They aren’t going to run roughshod, but they will nibble away while their relative durability makes them an unattractive target compared to their threat. They aren’t a CC unit, but they will bully units taken for a similar rule, discourage weakened units from straying near them, etc.

 

Mark is running his with chainswords, which is probably a points thing (and since the FAQ was pretty recent, are prob the models he had), but I favor power swords if they can be fit in.

[ed72]

I've been awfully successful with my Sanguinary Guard at my local store, so i'm real glad to see that it can scale up and compete with the toughest lists 

[Blackcadian]

Wow, great thread, thanks for reporting in! Good to see BA make some noise!

 

I just had a look at the list and he seems to have almost no anti-tank in there? Just the captain and 1 PF in the DC. I wonder why that is?

[toaae]

I'm watching the replay (pro tip: you can watch it at 1.5x or even 2x speed), and someone in chat shared a gallery of the all-BA list.

Anyways, I'm loving that list. I'm curious about the one tactical squad; I get the heavy bolter, as I assume that's so he has the option to use the stratagem, and I'll also assume it is 8 models cause he had 40 points left over, but is that all the reasons for the Tactical squad? Or is there something more?

Watching the replay (only in Turn 2 as I type this), and I'm not sure I've gleamed any lessons from this game. Guess I'll have to watch to the end.

[Jorre]

Is there a link to watching a replay?

[toaae]

Is there a link to watching a replay?

 

In the second post of this thread.

[Kappel]

This is really cool I think. Seems there is suite a lot that uses BA as an alfa strike detachment in Imperial Armies.

[Panzer]

To be fair, one of the three top10 armies including BA was a list with only two captains + Mephiston and the rest Space Wolves and AM so I wouldn't really count that towards BA. The other two lists sure are tho. Quite pleased that the pure BA list did so well!

The reasons for why BA do so well I see are:

 - our hard hitting elements care littel about negative to-hit modifier

 - our hard hitting elements are either protected characters or units that charge straight out of reserves. Means the enemy basically can't do anything about them before we use them which makes alpha strikes incredibly ineffective against BA

 - apart from the Captain our hard hitting elements rely on mass of attacks so we have little problems with hordes

 

BA pretty much counter the three big things in the meta, making BA a meta breaker imo.

[Charlo]

So the pure BA force that did well was:

 

Looks like Double Battalion

 

Chaplain

Lemartes

Libby

Sanguinor

Priest

Ancient

 

Good chunk of Intercessors

Squad of Tacs with a Heavy Bolter

Min squad of combat scouts

 

Block of DC

Block of SG

 

Pretty darn simple but having 38 Priamris wounds to chew through, who can just run up the board and be effective in all phases is nothing to sneeze at. Librarian can give them a 5++ or extra attacks as needed. Priest and Banner keeps guys alive, getting free attacks/ shots when they die. Jump troops are the Hammer Blow to take out big things, with DC having that sweet Lemartes 3D6 reroll charge.

 

There is a lot of synergy here, it's deceptive. You know I don't think any other chapter has better use out of Primaris at this point. Even DAs shooting buff requires you to be stationary and can be replicated with any old captain.

[Crimson Ghost IX]

I'm in camp Intercessors don't suck. I think the three troop choices on offer in the codex are roughly equally useful and think it wise to play some of each myself. I believe Mark's list would have benefited by dropping one Intercessor unit for more board control scouts in the game I watched.

Would be interesting to hear his own list analysis after the event for sure.

What has hindsight revealed in your opinion, if you read this Mark?

 

I think your analysis of BA stuffs is very astute sfPanzer - as usual man =).

 

How do we as BA players best leverage these hard hitting toys GW has given us?

I am guessing we have a number of ways to do this and there are a number of ways to have baked the cake slightly differently here.

Good job on GW for giving us a good and fluffy codex in that way. (Too bad about the Furioso and Baal Pred tho)

 

Here is another link to some more good LVO related BA food for thoughts from Paul @ Forge the Narrative:

I am also looking forward to hearing his post event analysis of what he took and what the event revealed to him based on his pre-game thoughts.

 

Anyhow, great to see BA doing well at the event and being repped by dedicated fellas using signature units for certain.

Looking forward to watching the games today on Twitch!

 

GO Blood Angels !! - For Sanguinius and the Emperor !! 

Hope these guys are having fun and making us proud whatever happens =)

[Panzer]

So the pure BA force that did well was:

 

Looks like Double Battalion

 

Chaplain

Lemartes

Libby

Sanguinor

Priest

Ancient

 

Good chunk of Intercessors

Squad of Tacs with a Heavy Bolter

Min squad of combat scouts

 

Block of DC

Block of SG

 

Pretty darn simple but having 38 Priamris wounds to chew through, who can just run up the board and be effective in all phases is nothing to sneeze at. Librarian can give them a 5++ or extra attacks as needed. Priest and Banner keeps guys alive, getting free attacks/ shots when they die. Jump troops are the Hammer Blow to take out big things, with DC having that sweet Lemartes 3D6 reroll charge.

 

There is a lot of synergy here, it's deceptive. You know I don't think any other chapter has better use out of Primaris at this point. Even DAs shooting buff requires you to be stationary and can be replicated with any old captain.

This one to be exact:

[Panzer]

I'd like to know what he thinks about Powerswords on Intercessors. I mean he probably had to send in the list before we got the FAQ (or had it at least finalized then already) and he's pretty tight on points except for the bigger Tactical Squad with HB.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Yeah that was an excellent game to watch between Mark and Jared.

Both had great armies and played very well.

Was a real pleasure to watch that one unfold.

 

Here is a link to the army lists in that match for those curious:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/150/733325.page#9806383

 

Here is a link to the Twitch TV stream. BA vs CSM game coverage starts around 6:15:00 in.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/222972094

 

Go BA! - Looks like 2 of the top 8 are BA (1 pure) if I am following things right.

 

Go Mark and Mike !!

 

3 Things;

 

1. I noted his list has a whopping 7 characters.  I remember a lot of the early index BA theorycrafting warned against including too many support characters and not having enough actual units to support.   It would seem his success decries that theory. So what are we left with?  Is there anything discussable here?  Do we all need to rethink the 'show some restraint with buffy characters' mentality? Is there an optimal ratio? Or is he just really good?

 

2. No vehicles....one after my own heart.

 

3. Regarding the 7 man/8 man tactical squad with heavy bolter.  I'm sure the unit was just filled up with whatever was left over, but consider this....that unit will likely babysit a backfield objective.  A single large(ish) squad of tacs with one heavy bolter will not register high on anyone's threat list.  This unit is too low-threat to garner a lot of return fire (I gotta chew through 6-7 tactical marines, likely in cover, in order to knock out 1 heavy bolter?) and as such, they are fairly immune to a single cheap MSU thing like a squad of assault marines plopping down and wresting that objective from them. (cuz they have more dudes.)  It's a nice little thorn in your side that can leverage hellfire shells when necessary.

I'm watching the replay (pro tip: you can watch it at 1.5x or even 2x speed), and someone in chat shared a gallery of the all-BA list.

 

Anyways, I'm loving that list. I'm curious about the one tactical squad; I get the heavy bolter, as I assume that's so he has the option to use the stratagem, and I'll also assume it is 8 models cause he had 40 points left over, but is that all the reasons for the Tactical squad? Or is there something more?

 

Watching the replay (only in Turn 2 as I type this), and I'm not sure I've gleamed any lessons from this game. Guess I'll have to watch to the end.

 

Angels Sanguine....BE STILL MY BEATING HEART!!!

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Yeah for sure on the powerswords. Wonder how much opportunity he had to perhaps use em over the course of the event.

 

Also looking at it again. I think that should read 8 man squad for the tacticals at 114 points?

Hmmm.

[Panzer]

 

3 Things;

 

1. I noted his list has a whopping 7 characters.  I remember a lot of the early index BA theorycrafting warned against including too many support characters and not having enough actual units to support.   It would seem his success decries that theory. So what are we left with?  Is there anything discussable here?  Do we all need to rethink the 'show some restraint with buffy characters' mentality? Is there an optimal ratio? Or is he just really good?

 

2. No vehicles....one after my own heart.

 

3. Regarding the 7 man/8 man tactical squad with heavy bolter.  I'm sure the unit was just filled up with whatever was left over, but consider this....that unit will likely babysit a backfield objective.  A single large(ish) squad of tacs with one heavy bolter will not register high on anyone's threat list.  This unit is too low-threat to garner a lot of return fire (I gotta chew through 6-7 tactical marines, likely in cover, in order to knock out 1 heavy bolter?) and as such, they are fairly immune to a single cheap MSU thing like a squad of assault marines plopping down and wresting that objective from them. (cuz they have more dudes.)  It's a nice little thorn in your side that can leverage hellfire shells when necessary.

 

1. Two of them are mostly beatsticks and not support characters tho so more like 5 characters, really. Which is totally fine since they aren't like 150p characters or something.

 

3. Until he starts using the Mortal wounds stratagem on the Heavy Bolter. :P

[9x19 Parabellum]

It's still 40% (800 pts) of his army in characters, and that's a lot. 

[Crimson Ghost IX]

 

3 Things;

 

1. I noted his list has a whopping 7 characters.  I remember a lot of the early index BA theorycrafting warned against including too many support characters and not having enough actual units to support.   It would seem his success decries that theory. So what are we left with?  Is there anything discussable here?  Do we all need to rethink the 'show some restraint with buffy characters' mentality? Is there an optimal ratio? Or is he just really good?

 

2. No vehicles....one after my own heart.

 

3. Regarding the 7 man/8 man tactical squad with heavy bolter.  I'm sure the unit was just filled up with whatever was left over, but consider this....that unit will likely babysit a backfield objective.  A single large(ish) squad of tacs with one heavy bolter will not register high on anyone's threat list.  This unit is too low-threat to garner a lot of return fire (I gotta chew through 6-7 tactical marines, likely in cover, in order to knock out 1 heavy bolter?) and as such, they are fairly immune to a single cheap MSU thing like a squad of assault marines plopping down and wresting that objective from them. (cuz they have more dudes.)  It's a nice little thorn in your side that can leverage hellfire shells when necessary.

 

 

1. I think his characters are a great mix. I agree with you questioning the wisdom of don't go too far with the characters. Think that is totally discussable *nod. I think there is likely to be an optimal ratio for this build. Wonder if he feels he struck it after the games & opponents played. I thought it was neat how his character sat back and held that back objective using his character ability to not be shot at for instance. Simple and flexible usage there.

 

2. I miss seeing the vehicles myself, but variety of options is great. I don't think he missed them with his build at all =)

 

3. I think this unit could benefit from a power weapon perhaps, but yeah it is effective as stated for sure.

[Pendent]

I was just coming here to post about this. When I saw someone in the top 5 taking Intercessors (which I love) my jaw almost hit the floor.

 

Now my concern is that now we're going to eat a nerf.

[Panzer]

It's still 40% (800 pts) of his army in characters, and that's a lot. 

Yeah but look at the rest of his army as well. Lots of troops and no vehicles. So despite having lots of points in characters he still had lots of models to buff as well.