Las Vegas Open

[Panzer]

Did Mark possibly inadvertently cheat to win his last game? I believe his Captain was unable to 3D6 charge due to not arriving from reserve that round?

The unit doesn't have to come from reserves. Just being set up that turn and having the Blood Angels and Jump Pack keywords. So if he used for example the Upon Wings of Fire Stratagem to re-locate a Jump Pack unit (same rules as deep strike) he could use the Descent of Angels Stratagem to do the 3d6 charge.

[Explorer1]

 

Did Mark possibly inadvertently cheat to win his last game? I believe his Captain was unable to 3D6 charge due to not arriving from reserve that round?

The unit doesn't have to come from reserves. Just being set up that turn and having the Blood Angels and Jump Pack keywords. So if he used for example the Upon Wings of Fire Stratagem to re-locate a Jump Pack unit (same rules as deep strike) he could use the Descent of Angels Stratagem to do the 3d6 charge.

 

Yeah, but he didn't ....... he just moved the guy. He also got the number of attacks wrong - should have had 8 attacks, not 9 (4 base +1 for Death Co, +3 for Red Rampage) ....  "shrug" .... easy mistakes to make TBH, and he had command points to burn so he could have used Upon Wings of Fire if he wanted to. 

[Panzer]

Yeah he probably could have fought twice with the Captain as well anyway (didn't see that match). So in the end it probably didn't make much of a difference. Still something that shouldn't happen ideally.

[Explorer1]

The thing that bemused me about the game was why he deployed his Death Company. He knew that his opponent had infiltrating cultists. So, to be abel to really benefit from the Forlorn Fury stratagem he was betting on winning g the roll to go first AND the infiltrate/forlorn fury role. That's a pretty  big gamble. Also, when he lost the infiltrate roll he decided not to Forlorn Fury the DC, and used it along with some other squads to shoot the cultist screens. Wouldn't it have been better to charge the cultists and wipe them with the DC, while keeping the other units in cover? 

[wildweasel]

I believer he was getting a +1 A aura buff (Sanguinor pr Sang Ancient or some such).

[Explorer1]

I believer he was getting a +1 A aura buff (Sanguinor pr Sang Ancient or some such).

No - the Sanguinor was well out of 6", and his libby (who might have had unleash rage) died to the Oblits in combat the turn before.

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

The unit doesn't have to come from reserves. Just being set up that turn and having the Blood Angels and Jump Pack keywords. So if he used for example the Upon Wings of Fire Stratagem to re-locate a Jump Pack unit (same rules as deep strike) he could use the Descent of Angels Stratagem to do the 3d6 charge.

You know what I meant :p either way he couldn't have done it as he set him up in the earlier turn. Ignoring the captain being able to fight again its what won him the game as he wouldn't have been able to make the charge with on 2D6 more than likely.

[Panzer]

 

The unit doesn't have to come from reserves. Just being set up that turn and having the Blood Angels and Jump Pack keywords. So if he used for example the Upon Wings of Fire Stratagem to re-locate a Jump Pack unit (same rules as deep strike) he could use the Descent of Angels Stratagem to do the 3d6 charge.

You know what I meant either way he couldn't have done it as he set him up in the earlier turn. Ignoring the captain being able to fight again its what won him the game as he wouldn't have been able to make the charge with on 2D6 more than likely.

 

No I really didn't since I didn't watch that match. ^^

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

I think the Death Company were the punch that was meant to be seen. He didn't want the guy shooting at the tacs or Intercessors as he needed them in his backfield holding objectives. He gives him the Death Company, and then haymakers with the Sanguinary Guard.

[Calistarius]

Yeah I just rewatched the end. Unfortunately, Mark did use the Decent of Angels strategem wrong. He didn’t set the Captain up earlier that turn. Just moved him up 12”. He also miscounted the attacks. He rolled 9 instead of 8. Given that he hit and wounded with all 9, he would have still more than likely put out enough damage to take the Fire Raptor down, but if he’d only rolled 2d6 for his charge he likely wouldn’t have made it.

[Explorer1]

I think the Death Company were the punch that was meant to be seen. He didn't want the guy shooting at the tacs or Intercessors as he needed them in his backfield holding objectives. He gives him the Death Company, and then haymakers with the Sanguinary Guard.

 

Maybe ... but check the stream at 6.49. It shows the set up just after Jared deployed his cultists. Mark decides not to forlorn hope. Hard to tell distances with the angle and all, but I reckon if he had forlorn hoped forward, and then had a normal move, he could have multi assaulted all the cultists, and maybe even caught the horrors too (he might have had to use 3cps to fight again so he could get an extra 3" pile in). Even if he wasn't able to catch the horrors with a charge, he could have got into double tap range with the DC's bolters. That would have meant he wouldn't need to have exposed his intercessors and tac squad, which he needed to bolter down all the cultists. Sure he would have lost the DC next turn , but he lost them anyway. It would have left his opponents back lines open to a charge from the guard, which really didn't do much in the game, as they came in way over on the other side of the board.

 

Easy to say this now of course ... hindsight is always 20/20

[Lysere]

Yeah I just rewatched the end. Unfortunately, Mark did use the Decent of Angels strategem wrong. He didn’t set the Captain up earlier that turn. Just moved him up 12”. He also miscounted the attacks. He rolled 9 instead of 8. Given that he hit and wounded with all 9, he would have still more than likely put out enough damage to take the Fire Raptor down, but if he’d only rolled 2d6 for his charge he likely wouldn’t have made it.

 

With the thunder hammer and warlord trait it would only take 4 failed saves for the fire raptor to go down, without the bonus damage you'd need 6. If he did misplay the stratagem and had no way to actually have set him up that turn via another one then it would be a big issue, but if he could've just used another strat to do it then it could be fairly minor.

[Calistarius]

I’m not sure exactly what the distance was he needed. He was pretty far from the raptor. That’s the issue. Not the damage he dealt.

[BaldrickRSA]

Is there a link or post somewhere of this Captain with costs and make up, or have I missed something? Just reading the above, clearly this Captain was a bada##, but I still cannot get a ‘full’ picture of what made him such a bada## from the above.

[Calistarius]

Is there a link or post somewhere of this Captain with costs and make up, or have I missed something? Just reading the above, clearly this Captain was a bada##, but I still cannot get a ‘full’ picture of what made him such a bada## from the above.

 

I'll try to summarize for you.

 

129 points gets you:

Jump Pack

Thunder Hammer 

Stormshield

 

Then use the stratagem Death Visions of Sanguinius to give him +1 attack on the charge and a 6+++.

Take the relic Jump Pack, named Angel's Wing, and you have a rerollable charge, and your opponent cannot fire overwatch at him.

Make him your warlord and give him the trait Artisan of War to make his hammer do 4 damage per successful wound instead of 3.

 

Its a big investment but can dang near take down anything.

[toaae]

Is there a link or post somewhere of this Captain with costs and make up, or have I missed something? Just reading the above, clearly this Captain was a bada##, but I still cannot get a ‘full’ picture of what made him such a bada## from the above.

 

He has become near universal around here. It's just a captain with a Jump pack and thunder hammer (storm shield optional), and with a few stratagems (Death Visions of Sanguinius, Red Rampage, Honor of the Chapter, Only in Death Does Duty End, Descent of Angels), possibly a warlord trait (Artisan of War) and a relic (Angel's Wing or Hammer of Baal).

 

Combine any number of those things, and you have a character that can reliably deep strike, charge, and deal a massive amount of damage to a single model.

[brother_b]

Thanks for LVO coverage, this has been an interesting read. I'm the opposite of those win at all cost players, to each their own. I still would like to participate just for the fun of it... although it sounds like some of the games may not be that fun.

 

Do they have any tournaments that reward for painted armies, good sportsmanship, etc? Do they have tournaments that restrict the type/style of armies played to avoid spam, etc. Basically, tournaments for regular joes or is it always just WAAC?

[Calistarius]

Thanks for LVO coverage, this has been an interesting read. I'm the opposite of those win at all cost players, to each their own. I still would like to participate just for the fun of it... although it sounds like some of the games may not be that fun.

 

Do they have any tournaments that reward for painted armies, good sportsmanship, etc? Do they have tournaments that restrict the type/style of armies played to avoid spam, etc. Basically, tournaments for regular joes or is it always just WAAC?

There are many tournaments that DO have rewards for painting and sportsmanship!  Points are awarded for both and contribute to your overall score.  Then the top from each category gets their own prize.  Those are nice events to attend.  They won't contribute to your overall ITC points though, typically.

[Brother Crimson]

Thanks for LVO coverage, this has been an interesting read. I'm the opposite of those win at all cost players, to each their own. I still would like to participate just for the fun of it... although it sounds like some of the games may not be that fun.

 

Do they have any tournaments that reward for painted armies, good sportsmanship, etc? Do they have tournaments that restrict the type/style of armies played to avoid spam, etc. Basically, tournaments for regular joes or is it always just WAAC?

Most tournament give best painted army reward, there is just lot less drama about it. I’m pretty sure LVO has a best painted army price.

 

Also many tournament run best overall with point split between paint/tournament points/sportsmanship.

 

LVO probably goes simpler route with distinct categories because of the number of attendees. Organizing a 300-400 player tournament is not that easy, and getting a judge to evaluate every army for painting is tedious.

 

Don’t forget nobody talks about narrative scenarios and hobby workshops but they are great stuff to do at those conventions. Some of the best games I’ve played in my life were thematic scenarios/campaign that were completely different than matched play, some people even included element that are RPG esque where characters can do additional actions like searching ruins, activating board element, hijacking door etc.

 

Because of Twich feed and coverage all we see is matched play but Warhammer is more than that. GW should give more light to those scenarios. I’d buy a book of a good narrative campaign anytime.

[Calistarius]

LVO has an entire section dedicated to the “hobby” aspect of their range. It was featured in the FLG stream. The models in that area were stunning to say the least. They also had many people there to play “friendlies”. Those matches weren’t streamed because that wasn’t the main event. Games Workshop did a decent enough job with their coverage of the tournament. You’re not going to see anything other than matched play streamed at a major event like that because of the implications on the ITC standings.

[Shaezus]

Thanks for LVO coverage, this has been an interesting read. I'm the opposite of those win at all cost players, to each their own. I still would like to participate just for the fun of it... although it sounds like some of the games may not be that fun.

 

Do they have any tournaments that reward for painted armies, good sportsmanship, etc? Do they have tournaments that restrict the type/style of armies played to avoid spam, etc. Basically, tournaments for regular joes or is it always just WAAC?

If you're in the UK, check out the Caledonian Revolution tourny in the summer. It started due to the popularity of the Caledonian Uprising tourny which is held in January every year. Points and prizes for painting and sportsmanship and the bottom placed player gets a massive box of sweets. The No Retreat tourny is another great one with amazing terrain too.

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

Warzone Atlanta does a combination paint/game/sportsmanship score and also report results to ITC.

[Calistarius]

Warzone Atlanta does a combination paint/game/sportsmanship score and also report results to ITC.

I’ve heard Warzone Atlanta is a great time. I’d love to check it out someday.

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

I am definitely going to try to go this year. Supposedly they have people to serve you drinks, etc at your table while you're playing! Its billed as "The Biggest Party in 40K"

[brother_b]

Very cool information, thanks all. I'll definitely try one of these, some day. I'd love to get to the UK, both for games and "holiday"!! I'm on the West Coast though so that'll be a while.